View Full Version : TOKYO 2012, SEMI-FINAL: Milos the Missile outguns Andy: 6'3, 6'7(5), 7'6(4)
Well you have to say that was a really good performance from Raonic - Andy had the match on his racquet and couldn't finish it.
So did Milos win that or Andy lose it?Andy lost it. 2 big unforced errors at important times.
Don't like Raonic....I'm off to bed.
so am I , its 2 am here :sleepy:
david1610
06-10-2012, 06:01
I think Andy would have won that if he had stayed calmer during that last set.
I also repeat what I said earlier. I think Milos may well win most of the best of 3 set matches he and Andy play in the future, with Andy winning most of the best of five setters.
I found this very disappointing from Andy; there were times when he had it in the bag and just didn't follow through; one of the few games in his career when I thought Andy didn't deserve to win; if this is what being a grand slam winner does to him .......
So did Milos win that or Andy lose it?
That is the question.........just deciding!!!!.............Andy lost it.....just not up to par!!!!.....shame, but still!!!....plus I do think Andy will also be disappointed with his play!!!
Milos was the better player to be fair, Andy was making quite a lot of errors throughout and his serve was under more pressure I felt. Andyshould definitely have won though, from 4-1 up and with the match point which he was in a good position in a rally. Ah well, hopefully next week Andy can do better!
I was sure he'd win it right until his backhand went long on match point. Hard luck Andy; definitely not at his best today... Good win for Milos; well done to him.
I found this very disappointing from Andy; there were times when he had it in the bag and just didn't follow through; one of the few games in his career when I thought Andy didn't deserve to win; if this is what being a gland slam winner does to him .......
Give the guy a break - he looks absolutely shattered to me. He fought really hard to come back into the match and in the end it just came down to a point lost or won here or there. When he gets over the disappointment I would think he will be glad of the extra day's rest before Shanghai. I know why he did it but I still think playing doubles here was a big mistake.
I had a feeling this would be a totally different match to the US Open - just knew Raonic would have a complete re-think in terms of tactics. For me, disappointing but predictable. I hate it when Andy has so many chances and can't take them. I also think Milos had the confidence from saving all those match points against Tipsy.
Ah well, our boy is not invincible - many more Murraycoasters to live through methinks.
So close Andy, just a point here or there and well done to Raonic who played his best tennis especially when you consider he lost to Niemenen last week.
Andy faces Tomic or Mayer in Shanghai with seeds likely to meet, Simon then Gasquet/Isner in quarters. Same half as Federer who gets a WC or qualifier in his first match. Raonic is not in Andy's half.
Andy not at his best today. Milos kept his cool and Andy did not. errors at crucial moments I thought he looked tired and I really think his back is a problem.
I didn't watch the match but sounds like it was very close. To be honest, anything else Andy achieves this year is a bonus after the Olympic Gold and USO title - losing in Tokyo doesn't bother me. Sounds like Milos played well - he'd have been less rusty too having played last week (he lost early then). Still, SF of a 500 event is a good result and Andy's had some good wins this week. Hopefully this will have prepared him well for Shanghai.
Sad but I am sure there are many factors in this loss. Andy is probably beginning to feel his back problem again. That would make him weary and bad tempered and Raonic was playing very well which he cannot always keep up. He is improving bit by bit. The fact that Andy's ball kept finding the net and his serve has not been as good as usual would point to his back.. He will not, of course, blame that for his loss. I did notice in the Wawrinka match how many times he bent over and rubbed his lower back. Hopefully he will be okay for the rest of the season as injury was his downfall last year in the last few tournaments. Perhaps he should give Basel a miss. He could probably give Shanghai a miss with injury but he is defending and needs to get a deep as possible to protect his ranking points. The top players are doing far too much and Djoko and Andy do not as yet have luxury of missing tournaments as does Federer etc. Everyone tends to forget that they usually make the SF or F of all the grandslams and many more comps. which the lower ranked players do not. Ferrer seems to paying the price of doing too many tournies. Points chasing is not good for any of them. Our wonderful footballers would have collapsed a short time into the USO Final (the length of 3 matches back to back).
NorthernLights
06-10-2012, 07:26
Losing in the semis isn't a terrible thing, but I think Andy will be kicking himself because he came so close. His tb record is so good, I almost presumed he was going to pull it out of the bag! But our boy is still human, he is likely to experience a post-slam slump and it's the end of a long season. He has expended so much emotional energy this year, as much off-court as on - just think about those hours in Dunblane. I thought he looked tired and a bit frazzled at the end of the Wawrinka match, so I'm not really surprised he lost. Plus, he and Jamie had just been knocked out and Jamie really needed those ranking points; I'm sure Andy was upset about that.
Whatever happens in Shanghai and Paris, I really hope Andy does well in London. I'd love him to end this fabulous season on a high, especially when it's a home tournament.
hfwardhouse
06-10-2012, 07:42
Not the news I wanted to get up to but I'm not surprised - Milos is going to be a very tricky opponent for the next few years and there wasn't a lot in it in this match. Andy will dust himself off and come back better in Shanghai I'm sure.
Sorry, they're all tired at this time of year (as Andy himself has said) but WR3 should win from 4-1 up in the 3rd set; I agree he should be concentrating on singles - Jamie should find himself a regular doubles partner and not rely on Andy boosting his points.
I have just read that towards the end of this match, and the Wawrinka match, Andy wasn't sitting down at the changeovers. That says to me that his back is playing up. I have to say that I find that much more concerning than him losing a very close match to Raonic in an ATP 500. Raonic had to play out of his skin to beat a below par Andy - Andy knows that and so does Raonic.
Sorry, they're all tired at this time of year (as Andy himself has said) but WR3 should win from 4-1 up in the 3rd set; I agree he should be concentrating on singles - Jamie should find himself a regular doubles partner and not rely on Andy boosting his points.
Yes I agree. Got up to see Andy had broken Milos in set 3 and went back to bed assuming it was in the bag. Yes, his back is sore, he's tired and had lost in doubles but I too thought he was bound to win the tiebreak with his tb record and experience. He will be furious with himself I'm sure and his confidence may be a tad dented after this but at least there's an extra day to get treatment on his back and get his head in the right place again.
Credit to Ranoic however - he's coming up fast....
Can't believe he lost that one!
Milos played a great first set, but Andy did everything right and got himself firmly in control in the third set. Quite shocking from our Grand Slam winner.
He'll be well aware of what a poor finish to a match that was from him though, he'll come back strong in Shanghai.
I have just read that towards the end of this match, and the Wawrinka match, Andy wasn't sitting down at the changeovers. That says to me that his back is playing up. I have to say that I find that much more concerning than him losing a very close match to Raonic in an ATP 500. Raonic had to play out of his skin to beat a below par Andy - Andy knows that and so does Raonic.
And that's another viewpoint, Alis.....but you may well be right so thanks for that,
I didn't watch the match but sounds like it was very close. To be honest, anything else Andy achieves this year is a bonus after the Olympic Gold and USO title - losing in Tokyo doesn't bother me. Sounds like Milos played well - he'd have been less rusty too having played last week (he lost early then). Still, SF of a 500 event is a good result and Andy's had some good wins this week. Hopefully this will have prepared him well for Shanghai.
I would say its a poor result. Especially when your defending champion.
No doubt he'll be tired, but they're all tired now at this stage. As magnificent a summer its been for him, this aisan stretch was vital so that he could cement his spot at Number 3. Missing Thailand (understandably) and going out here really hasn't helped things, and theres real pressure on him to bag a masters title now before the years out.
Talk of him finishing the year number one was always ludicrous, but it'll be a real shame if he hasn't put a real dent in the gap between him and the top two before the years out.
Just watched the recording. Agree that at the end of the Wawrinka match I thought Andy looked jaded - no real joy in winning.
Got to hand it to Milos he was the business in this match - he's definitely improving and I retract my "only a serve" opinion. He was aggressive and volleyed sublimely. As usual, Andy could have finished points off in the same manner but doggedly avoided the net most of the time. I thought he lost this match....he had the break - something no one else has managed in the tournament but normal service (in every sense) was resumed when Andy then lost his own serve. As some of us have said for a long time, until Andy can break and then hold, he's going to have problems. It was a loose service game on his part, some casual and sloppy shots. I'm sure he's going to be kicking himself over it.
Never mind - he'll get a bit of a rest. I too am worried about the back. We want him injury free for the O2.
Just popping back to say I didn't notice Andy not sitting down but I've deleted the recording so can't check. I tend to fast forward through all that stuff (mind you most of it is adverts, so may not have seen anyway).
I have just read that towards the end of this match, and the Wawrinka match, Andy wasn't sitting down at the changeovers. That says to me that his back is playing up. I have to say that I find that much more concerning than him losing a very close match to Raonic in an ATP 500. Raonic had to play out of his skin to beat a below par Andy - Andy knows that and so does Raonic.
Thanks for that info Alis!!!!:thumbup:
This loss could be a blessing in diguise specially if his back is hurting which seemed obvious during the 1/4 finals, look at the positives, he's overtaken Nadal in the Race, also there are 2 big 1000 tournies coming up + Basel, another 500 points. more to gain and no points to lose. On top of that an extra day to rest, so he can defend his title. He is in Roger's top half of the Draw but I read somewhere Roger is not good either but Roger is not defending any points, more to gain than lose. The more rest Andy can get the better, I hope he can do better in Paris as he is not defending a lot of points there. Let's hope he has not doubled up with that brother of his in the next 3 tournaments. Another positive is that Andy managed to break Raonic and we all knew in a 3 sets match Andy would have problems with his opponent's serves but can anyone see Raonic keeping that sort of intensity in a Slam where it matters.
Give the guy a break - he looks absolutely shattered to me. He fought really hard to come back into the match and in the end it just came down to a point lost or won here or there. When he gets over the disappointment I would think he will be glad of the extra day's rest before Shanghai. I know why he did it but I still think playing doubles here was a big mistake.
You hit the nail on the head. My sentiment too
JAMES4578
06-10-2012, 10:19
A bit gutted when I watched this during the night from the comfort of bed with Andy losing abeit a close match after the fightback when he seemed to have the upper hand in the 3rd. However, on refection we can't expect Andy to always be at his best and Milos certainly was a challenge. A concern if there is a problem with his back and will likely also be a bit jaded but probably it is manageable, don't think they did show the changeovers on Sky. of course it's true that there are bigger tournaments coming up and on the plus side Andy has a bit more time to prepare for Shanghai.
I would say its a poor result. Especially when your defending champion.
No doubt he'll be tired, but they're all tired now at this stage. As magnificent a summer its been for him, this aisan stretch was vital so that he could cement his spot at Number 3. Missing Thailand (understandably) and going out here really hasn't helped things, and theres real pressure on him to bag a masters title now before the years out.
Talk of him finishing the year number one was always ludicrous, but it'll be a real shame if he hasn't put a real dent in the gap between him and the top two before the years out.
For me, defending champion means you played well at the tournament last year, and have a chance of winning this year. And as the Big Leaf has beaten him before, this also doesn't necessarily make it a bad result. It's just that Andy does need to be on his money to beat Milos, and if he isn't then it can be a problem match.
Why should there be 'real pressure' on him to bag a Masters before the season finishes? It's not as if he's been in a slump in his form, of late. He had a great Asian swing last year, but which season do you think has been the better one for him - this year, or last year?
In fact, one of his post-match quotes indicates that a reaction to his amazing summer had been a possibility (as follows):
"There was always going to be a bit of residue from the last few months."
Is he making excuses? I don't think so, although some might perceive that to be the case. He credited Raonic for playing well, but how he played still impacted the outcome of the match, so stating a context is absolutely fine.
Just popping back to say I didn't notice Andy not sitting down but I've deleted the recording so can't check. I tend to fast forward through all that stuff (mind you most of it is adverts, so may not have seen anyway).
You wouldn't have seen it Pabbers because of the adverts but someone who was in the stadium tweeted about him not sitting.
You do know that you can download videos from YouTube using Real Player? That's what I've done for posterity...
No I didn't know that - is it straightforward to do?
LC the fan
06-10-2012, 11:43
I have to say that - disappointed as I was - I enjoyed every minute of this match. I was so proud of Andy who was doing everything he could, using every tactic that he knew, and some he had almost forgotten, to keep up with an opponent who was playing out of his skin. I thought Andy played a great and mature game - 2 match points on Milos' service that he could do little about - it all came down to a couple of points at the end.
Obviously he's disappointed but there were so few unforced errors from either side. A Match worth getting up at 4am for !!
How long before Milos gets himself into the top eight ????? Tennis gets even more interesting
@ rouges - You say "Let's hope he has not doubled up with that brother of his". I think that very disrespectful of Jamie - a nicer guy you couldn't hope to meet, and I have known him all his life.
I have to say that - disappointed as I was - I enjoyed every minute of this match. I was so proud of Andy who was doing everything he could, using every tactic that he knew, and some he had almost forgotten, to keep up with an opponent who was playing out of his skin. I thought Andy played a great and mature game - 2 match points on Milos' service that he could do little about - it all came down to a couple of points at the end.
Obviously he's disappointed but there were so few unforced errors from either side. A Match worth getting up at 4am for !!
How long before Milos gets himself into the top eight ????? Tennis gets even more interesting
Yes it was a great match. In fact when Andy won the second set I said to myself I'd be happy whichever way it went in the third because Andy had acquitted himself well in the second and at least taken a set. However, having been a break up in the third I'm afraid I was left with a bit of a nasty taste in my mouth. But hey you can't win 'em all and for anyone else to go on the sort of run that Nole had last year is extremely unlikely IMHO.
As for Milos. Players beware! You could see his emulation of Sampras today - serve and volley and boy can he volley. Most players, once Andy has passed them at the net a couple of times, retreat to their normal baseline territory but if Milos has decided that volleying is going to be his game, then he's got to be thinking that on the percentages he'll win more at the net than he'll lose, if he hones his skill. EEEEEKKKK!!!!!
@ rouges - You say "Let's hope he has not doubled up with that brother of his". I think that very disrespectful of Jamie - a nicer guy you couldn't hope to meet, and I have known him all his life.
I'm sorry if you are offended, I was not being disrespectful about Jamie as a person, I was talking TENNISWISE. I'm well aware of Andy's love for his brother and being Andy's great fan , I would never offend the Murrays as people as I don't know them although I've met Andy and he is charming.
LC the fan
06-10-2012, 13:11
Does anyone have opinions on Andy's newly developed tactic of aiming at the player at the net - very lendl like.????
I have no problem with it in principle but on a couple of occasions this morning I felt Andy would have been better going for his usual passing shots, either cross court or down line. Milos became aware of what he was likely to do and was ready for it
RoastLamb
06-10-2012, 14:55
I really enjoyed this match. I always enjoy seeing my faves play against each other. Only wish it was the final. Was very surprised at the level Milos played at. I really thought Andy would win in straights. But Milos hung in there esp. in that last set. To come back from a break down to win is amazing esp. as most players would just crumble. Must say I didn't enjoy Andy's rants and raves altho' it shows how frustrating it must be to play a big server. But Milos did well at the net and managed to hold his own in some of the rallies which really surprised me. I can't imagine Milos will have much gas left to face Kei, though.
banskogirl
06-10-2012, 15:09
Let's hope he has not doubled up with that brother of his............
:rolling: you mean the good looking one?
Andy has always made it clear that there are other important things in his life and family is one of them. He must believe a possible win with Jamie outweighs the negatives of playing doubles with him in a tourny.
supergran
06-10-2012, 15:17
Been up about half an hour. Combination of jet-lag and watching Andy means I am still too tired to even comment. Enjoyed reading some of yours though. Good luck next week Andy!!
I'm sorry if you are offended, I was not being disrespectful about Jamie as a person, I was talking TENNISWISE. I'm well aware of Andy's love for his brother and being Andy's great fan , I would never offend the Murrays as people as I don't know them although I've met Andy and he is charming.
As you are probably aware, Jamie and Andy WON the doubles in Japan last year, and Jamie has had some great wins on the tour in the past with different partners - beating the Bryan bros for example!! He is currently ranked 52, and has frequently been much higher than that . It was the phrase "THAT brother" that got my goat, as such a phrase is usually derogatory - at least it is in this part of the world!! However, I forgive you and just thought I'd try to let you know where I am coming from.:peace::)
I think this loss - apart from obvious fatigue and back problems - also proves that there is still a lot for Andy to work on. As someone else said - so many times he breaks then fails to hold his own serve. If he could sort this out (and I''m sure he and Ivan are aware of this) then he won't be losing matches like this. The serve (particularly the second) is still too inconsistent. As was said in commentary in the quarters - he tends to use the slice rather than the kicker.
Pardon my technical ignorance, but not sure exactly what the `kicker' is though know Fed uses it....
@ rouges - You say "Let's hope he has not doubled up with that brother of his". I think that very disrespectful of Jamie - a nicer guy you couldn't hope to meet, and I have known him all his life.
Andy is a grown man and if he didn't want to do dubs I'm sure he would say so.
Given that he hasn't done much since USO I can understand why he would want to get some match play under his belt ... And the back issues could well be his adjustment back to playing.
I realise that Jamie does need a regular partner and he and Sa look to be pairing up later in the year so you never know ... This could be the new partner.
But I just roll my eyes when people almost blame Jamie for Andy's loss.
Andy was defending both titles, was he not?
well, i'm annoyed that andy lost, mainly because i think tomorrow's final, versus nishikori, would have been more interesting if andy were playing and not milos.
still not clear as to the 2 matchpoints 'squandered', anyone care to enlighten me?
supergran
06-10-2012, 21:03
Well, we all make mistakes and Andy made mistakes. But I am sure that he is more annoyed than we are....and it showed. Andy wanted to win and he didn't. So we, like he has to, have to get over it. He can't win them all. He won't win them all but we get value for money supporting him. Exciting, thrilling, nerve-wracking Murraycoasters which we have signed up for. I will always support Andy, win or lose. But from now he will win more than he loses. Go Andy...I am your supporter as long as you play.:clap::cheer::cheer::clap:
david1610
06-10-2012, 21:33
How long before Milos gets himself into the top eight ????? Tennis gets even more interesting
Well the Tennis TV commentators were saying that he still has a chance of qualifying for the O2 finals.
supergran
06-10-2012, 23:02
Well the Tennis TV commentators were saying that he still has a chance of qualifying for the O2 finals. Hope not....can't stand him.
RoastLamb
07-10-2012, 01:30
Well the Tennis TV commentators were saying that he still has a chance of qualifying for the O2 finals.
Which is rather :confused: because I just can't see how it could be mathematically possible.
rainy days
07-10-2012, 02:59
It's possible, but he would have to win another 1000 points this year for that to happen. And that's assuming the guys ahead of him in the race, mainly Tipsy and Tsonga, under-perform and lose almost every match from this point onward. If Rafa doesn't play he could get in as an alternate.
Can't see it happening - Tsonga will pick up a lot of points from this week in Beijing and is likely to do well in Paris. Tipsy isn't going to go quietly either. It think MIlos will have to wait until next year.
rainy days
07-10-2012, 09:34
After the loss today, it doesn't look likely, no. Nishikori won't be getting in either. Not this year anyway.
david1610
07-10-2012, 11:21
Must say I didn't enjoy Andy's rants and raves
Me neither. Part of me had hoped that getting a slam would bring about a change but if anything they seemed even stronger.
LC the fan
07-10-2012, 12:04
What 'rants and raves' ??? He was obviously frustrated , but he was talking to himself, not his box and not the crowd. That's the way he is and probably will always be. Where's the problem- he wasn't warned for swearing ? OK he broke a racket - so did Stan the day before, so does Djoko - often!
Why do we expect a Slam to turn him into Roger - wont happen. He is Andy - end of
He wasn't warned, but he certainly swore loud enough to be heard on tv.
RoastLamb
07-10-2012, 14:22
Me neither. Part of me had hoped that getting a slam would bring about a change but if anything they seemed even stronger.
Have a feeling it was a one off, though. I hope. He was defo getting much better this year. Maybe when Lendl's not there he reverts.
david1610
07-10-2012, 15:43
Try and find a recording of Andy's face when he is hitting the net after missing the tweenie shot. Or when he shows that face because of frustration even when he loses the point because his opponent Milos has actually outplayed him in the rally. Then imagine you know nothing about this player. Would you want to support him?
The big, big sponsors with their millions may also not want to sponsor him - that is not the face for Gillette (so what, you may jump in, but I bet Andy's management team are acutely aware of this - one of Andy's negative monikers on some tennis forums is "white fang"...).
And mentioning Federer, please do not forget that we have been pretty united over the years in our criticism of the posters on his site who think he walks on water and are not prepared to entertain a single criticism of him in any way, and how we have always valued openness on this site.
For some of us, Andy can do no wrong. He was tired in Japan, bless him. For others he simply should not have lost from 4-1 down in the third. For others we do not like the aggressive anger he can display on court. Yes I accept it may well be part of Andy and will not change. That does not mean we have to like it though, And, no, I do not accept it as he often loses when he does not have it under control. It was NOT the same as in the US Final, because he let it out, then focused straight away. We have talked about this a lot and I thought with Lendl coming it was being channeled in a way that does not stop Andy being able to focus on the next point.
His greatest success are when he controls the anger, rather than the anger controlling him and FWIW I think Andy would have won that third set if he had managed his anger/frustration better.
And although it may be an old chestnut (to quote another poster) Andy's success is a model for children learning to play tennis but not his on-court anger.
I have to say I'm not in the "Andy can do no wrong" camp. I was one of those disappointed at the sloppy game he played after breaking Milos in the third set. I'll criticise if I feel it's deserved. That said, I didn't really notice any great anger - hitting the net, yes, but that was just a bit of frustration - there was none of the dropping of the shoulders, shuffling about, scowling at his corner that we've endured in the past. For him maybe the frustration is better out than in. Even Federer has been seen/heard to get angry in recent times. As for the "white fang" label. That's more down to the press IMHO because they persist in showing photos of him with his mouth wide open but usually with a pumping up face, not an angry face - and the pumping up face is when you get the white fang look. I doubt if Andy could give a fig about adverts - they probably do matter more to his management company. He certainly doesn't need the money and he doesn't seem interested in the playboy lifestyle or the opulence that Fed displays. He has to remain his own person within reason.
RoastLamb
07-10-2012, 16:53
He broke his racquet on his foot. That's a big sign of anger. Stan the man did it as well when he played against Andy the previous match too. Must be catching.
its the one thing i will concede i hate to see Andy or anyone else do (and lets face it every tennis player has done it), totally unacceptable, all the vocals abuse face pulling dosnt bother me but that dose thankful don't recall Andy doing it often
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