View Full Version : AO 2017, R4: Andy taken out by Mischa Zverev in 4 sets
............ and he speaks perfect English and comes across as a thoroughly nice guy!
Malaiseous
22-01-2017, 07:30
Oh well. Now Wawrinka can go and get another easy major. Great. Or Federer, off for seven years but why not just stroll back in and claim another Aussie Open at the age of 300. Or why not one of the lucky ones from the other half? Raonic, Dimitrov? It makes me sick. Djokovic was gone! It was Andy's for the taking and he will never get a better chance. I am more gutted by this one than any other.
david1610
22-01-2017, 07:30
For the record, Dan Evans is the last British male tennis player still in the tournament. No disrespect Dan, but never expected to say that for a good while.
( One set all with Tsonga! )
I am just really disappointed for Andy and all his supporters, I will be miserable all day. the trolls will have a field day . Hope Andy can handle it better than me.
Silver lining. Andy might play Davis cup now.
Strangely, I'm not nearly as upset about this loss as I would be if Andy had lost to any of the big names.
Andy will undoubtedly be asked about Davis Cup in his press conference. It may be the best recovery from this shock to play in Ottawa.
LC the fan
22-01-2017, 07:32
How long is it since Andy hasn't reached the quarters in a slam ?
Still, compensation that he will remain no 1 for a while yet.
jackie55
22-01-2017, 07:33
Oh dear, what a shame l couldn't watch the match was following on the forum....l know l am going to be feeling down for a while, just can't believe what happened:crying::crying::sad::sad::sad:
Let's all get behind Keith for the title. :thumbup:
RosieBear
22-01-2017, 07:34
Oh well. Now Wawrinka can go and get another easy major. Great. Or Federer, off for seven years but why not just stroll back in and claim another Aussie Open at the age of 300. Or why not one of the lucky ones from the other half? Raonic, Dimitrov? It makes me sick. Djokovic was gone! It was Andy's for the taking and he will never get a better chance. I am more gutted by this one than any other.
Every time Stan has won a slam he was beaten Nole en route so I'm not sure why they have been easy :confused: And if Fed wins at 36yo then there's no reason why Andy can't be doing the same - I can live with that :thumbup: Que sera sera, but whatever happens it ain't worth angst. And I'm with Bardot - go Keith :cheer:
Let's all get behind Keith for the title. :thumbup:
I could live with that
I don't think we can be too miserable. Zverev played an amazing match - he was in the zone - it happens. The saving grace is that Djoko went out two rounds before Andy and it's just one tournament.
Agree, a lot of common sense in that post Alis :thumbup:. Kudos to Micha, also would like the guy to win this tournament, not a lucky place for our boy alas! Once Andy see's Sophia, he will be fine #perspective, Keep #believing folks I am!!!:thumbup:
It may be for the best. A week's break then Davis cup then another break before Dubai. Andy is still tired from the end of last year - didn't get a share of the night matches and the guy played out of his skin!!!
How long is it since Andy hasn't reached the quarters in a slam ?
Still, compensation that he will remain no 1 for a while yet.
He lost to Anderson in the US Open 4th round in 2015.
Malaiseous
22-01-2017, 07:36
Yes, this one hurts. I've skipped denial and I'm straight onto anger.
JAMES4578
22-01-2017, 07:36
Strangely, I'm not nearly as upset about this loss as I would be if Andy had lost to any of the big names.
I'm still gutted Andy out this early even if to an extent taken out of his hands and disappointed he's now not passed the quarters in the last two slams. Suppose consolation is still has a big lead in the rankings nonetheless.
I could live with that
Me too.
LC the fan
22-01-2017, 07:36
I cannot believe that Zverev can possibly play like that again. To be honest I think I would like Raonic to take it now, or Dimitrov.
The next generation could now make their mark.
Bye folks, thanks for your company. I am off to have a cry and catch up on my sleep for the rest of the week
Oh well. Now Wawrinka can go and get another easy major. Great. Or Federer, off for seven years but why not just stroll back in and claim another Aussie Open at the age of 300. Or why not one of the lucky ones from the other half? Raonic, Dimitrov? It makes me sick. Djokovic was gone! It was Andy's for the taking and he will never get a better chance. I am more gutted by this one than any other.
Sorry, lets not overreact here. The other guy played better. I am not at all gutted. I am sorry for our man, but I really expected it. He can't win every match, much as we would like him to. Today he was beaten by a player on a roll. I don't think it was expectation, because he managed the expectation just fine at Wimbledon last year. It wasn't Andy's for the taking. Wawrinka, Nadal, Federer, Raonic and many other top players are still in it. I think he is exhausted. I think the exhibition tournament was probably a mistake.
If he never wins another match, that's fine by me. Give the guy a break. Perhaps his ankle isn't right, perhaps Kim is pregnant again. Who knows.
RosieBear
22-01-2017, 07:38
Let's all get behind Keith for the title. :thumbup:
I could live with that
Me too.
Me three. Go Keith :boogie:
kenny009uk
22-01-2017, 07:38
Lets not sugar coat this. Granted Misha played well but an Andy playing at 50% would have won that match. It probably goes down as his worst performance at a slam for a long time. Very disappointing the way he lost. So many shots dumped into the net. Have to say thats probably his best chance of an Oz Open title gone.
themass15
22-01-2017, 07:39
How long is it since Andy hasn't reached the quarters in a slam ?
Still, compensation that he will remain no 1 for a while yet.
4th round in US Open against Kevin Anderson in 2015
Malaiseous
22-01-2017, 07:39
Agree, a lot of common sense in that post Alis :thumbup:. Kudos to Micha, also would like the guy to win this tournament, not a lucky place for our boy alas! Keep #believing folks I am!!!:thumbup:
Sorry to be blunt but I'm not sure the ranking is as important as securing as many different majors as possible. What a missed opportunity but I will concede that there would have been no chance of beating Federer playing like that.
I'm definitely rooting for Zverev now and, as that's unlikely, Nishikori or Dimitrov - that's if Dan can't do it, of course.
Absolutely stunned!!
I took it for granted that Andy would beat Zverev! Big mistake on my part.
I always thought that Raonic was the big danger this year at the AO! I expect him or Federer to take it now unfortunately Home and rest Andy! You've had a good run,
Wouldn't mind if Dimitrov won it. Anyone but FedEx. Couldn't stand the adulation
Rosalind
22-01-2017, 07:40
We have the Davis cup now. I'm certainly supporting Raonic in Oz now to get to final for that very reason. Feeling sad. Did I dream it? :(
RosieBear
22-01-2017, 07:40
Sorry, lets not overreact here. The other guy played better. I am not at all gutted. I am sorry for our man, but I really expected it. He can't win every match, much as we would like him to. Today he was beaten by a player on a roll. I don't think it was expectation, because he managed the expectation just fine at Wimbledon last year. It wasn't Andy's for the taking. Wawrinka, Nadal, Federer, Raonic and many other top players are still in it. I think he is exhausted. I think the exhibition tournament was probably a mistake.
If he never wins another match, that's fine by me. Give the guy a break. Perhaps his ankle isn't right, perhaps Kim is pregnant again. Who knows.
Hmmm....not sure losing a tennis match gives anyone the right to speculate about the most intimate matters of Andy's personal life. Just my opinion.
I'm definitely rooting for Zverev now and, as that's unlikely, Nishikori or Dimitrov - that's if Dan can't do it, of course.
I would be amazed if he wins a set next round
Malaiseous
22-01-2017, 07:41
Lets not sugar coat this. Granted Misha played well but an Andy playing at 50% would have won that match. It probably goes down as his worst performance at a slam for a long time. Very disappointing the way he lost. So many shots dumped into the net. Have to say thats probably his best chance of an Oz Open title gone.
100% agree
Malaiseous
22-01-2017, 07:44
The press are going to be unbearable. My colleague too, who winds me up whenever Andy loses.
Andy hit 71 winners(21 more than Zverev) and only 28 UEs and still lost. Not enough winners on the crucial points it would seem.
Sorry to be blunt but I'm not sure the ranking is as important as securing as many different majors as possible. What a missed opportunity but I will concede that there would have been no chance of beating Federer playing like that.
Each to their own. Personally I am happy to take No 1, including the End of Year No 1 in lieu of another Grand Slam.
The press are going to be unbearable. My colleague too, who winds me up whenever Andy loses.
Been following Andy for over a decade and he has achieved so much we can all hold oor heads up high come what may
Sorry to be blunt but I'm not sure the ranking is as important as securing as many different majors as possible. What a missed opportunity but I will concede that there would have been no chance of beating Federer playing like that.
Sorry, but ranking didn't enter my head or post, I understand your point but it is what it is!
Andy hit 71 winners(21 more than Zverev) and only 28 UEs and still lost. Not enough winners on the crucial points it would seem.
Many errors for zverev?
JAMES4578
22-01-2017, 07:47
Andy hit 71 winners(21 more than Zverev) and only 28 UEs and still lost. Not enough winners on the crucial points it would seem.
certainly you'd normally be very happy with stats like that but obviously they don't always tell the whole story,Zverev played better on the big points.
Andy hit 71 winners(21 more than Zverev) and only 28 UEs and still lost. Not enough winners on the crucial points it would seem.
Which indicates that Andy didn't really play badly. Without doubt, he didn't play the big points as well as Zverev did or he wouldn't have lost the match but it's not all gloom and doom.
Guerkins2
22-01-2017, 07:48
Lets not sugar coat this. Granted Misha played well but an Andy playing at 50% would have won that match. It probably goes down as his worst performance at a slam for a long time. Very disappointing the way he lost. So many shots dumped into the net. Have to say thats probably his best chance of an Oz Open title gone.
I have only seen the last few games, but stats don't look bad and not what Greg & Annabel are saying
RosieBear
22-01-2017, 07:50
I can live with any loss - that's just life - what depresses me is how long a wait it is until the French.:sad: Oh well I wonder if Andy will play DC now he's gone out early.
I have only seen the last few games, but stats don't look bad and not what Greg & Annabel are saying
Watching Dan now - dare I ask what the gruesome twosome are saying?
Hmmm....not sure losing a tennis match gives anyone the right to speculate about the most intimate matters of Andy's personal life. Just my opinion.
We are always speculating about their private lives. We were interested when he got engaged, when he got married, and when the news of Sophia emerged. Not too mention the speculation about Djokovic's marriage. Speculating is fine. Invading their private lives is quite another, which is why I was so resistant to sending a card about the pregnancy.
It's normal to look for explanations over loses. I still think this loss happened at the WTF's last year. Thrashing Djokovic after coming through the group of death to win it, and get the end of year No 1 must have taken it out of him.
Quotes from Andy's press conference.
Was a very short off season for me, after great year end. Will assess if things could have been done differently. Had tough losses in the past, I came back. This is a tough loss, I'll come back. But now I'm very disappointed
Temperature made conditions faster, but when it's 20 degrees things slow down.
When you are playing a tournament, ranking are completely irrelevant, didn't think about n.1 at all while playing
Andy thinks he deserved playing the night schedule. ;)
I can live with any loss - that's just life - what depresses me is how long a wait it is until the French.:sad: Oh well I wonder if Andy will play DC now he's gone out early.
There's a lot of tennis to be played before the French!
Just surfaced to see the result. :crying:
There's a lot of tennis to be played before the French!
The British obsession we are only interested in slams :lol:
RosieBear
22-01-2017, 07:54
There's a lot of tennis to be played before the French!
True - there's Andy's favourite, Indian Wells :big grin:
Many errors for zverev?
26 to Andy's 28.
26 to Andy's 28.
Seemed less but maybe they just whernt at crucial stages
Malaiseous
22-01-2017, 07:56
The Australian Open was the only one left that I wanted him to have. Rosie, I wouldn't have cared if he hadn't won a match either but only after winning this title that he has come so agonisingly close to doing so many times before. The French is less likely.
The British obsession we are only interested in slams :lol:
Not me. Getting one was the important thing to me. I think he would have felt a failure without it. Wimbledon was brilliant. Laying that ghost to rest. My favourite win of all time though remains London 2012.
I sometimes get baffled by the GS obsession.
Guerkins2
22-01-2017, 07:58
Watching Dan now - dare I ask what the gruesome twosome are saying?
That Andy didn't play badly, he didn't lose it, Zverev won it.
I'm watching Dan now, too
Thanks Teresa. I said to my son at the beginning of the week that I wouldn't be disappointed if he never wins another match.He has exceeded all my expectations and given me some great experiences that I never expected to see in my lifetime. Having said that, I am gutted for him as I did hope he would win AO - and an opportunity gone with Novak out early - and hate all the commentators' harsh appraisals, so feeling very sad, angry for some reason (not at Andy) and disappointed (so I lied) x
Perhaps both you and Mac are right, Teresa, and Andy is suffering from mental fatigue. Personally, I think it just wasn't Andy's day today and the stars aligned for Mischa - just one of those things - onwards and onwards!
Thanks Teresa. I said to my son at the beginning of the week that I wouldn't be disappointed if he never wins another match.He has exceeded all my expectations and given me some great experiences that I never expected to see in my lifetime. Having said that, I am gutted for him as I did hope he would win AO - and an opportunity gone with Novak out early - and hate all the commentators' harsh appraisals, so feeling very sad, angry for some reason (not at Andy) and disappointed (so I lied) xsaid the same myself a long time ago and I stick by it, I will leave it to Andy now to be disappointed if he chooses
RosieBear
22-01-2017, 08:02
The Australian Open was the only one left that I wanted him to have. Rosie, I wouldn't have cared if he hadn't won a match either but only after winning this title that he has come so agonisingly close to doing so many times before. The French is less likely.
I'm sorry you're so down :hug: - but Andy has played some incredible tennis at the French, has gone deeper there more often than in NY. And if Andy does win the French I'm sure you'll love it just as much as an Oz win. This wasn't Andy's year, but he'll have more chances - he'll keep knocking on the door and break through one day. :)
Malaiseous
22-01-2017, 08:03
Sorry for my negativity. I'm not angry at Andy, just the situation. I'm going to stop posting for now because I don't have anything positive to say.
I don't think playing in Doha helped Andy. Players who do well there often do not do as well at the Oz Open as those who have been in Australia for longer. It takes a good couple of weeks for the body clock to adapt to Ozzy time.
JAMES4578
22-01-2017, 08:04
The British obsession we are only interested in slams :lol:
Not me. Getting one was the important thing to me. I think he would have felt a failure without it. Wimbledon was brilliant. Laying that ghost to rest. My favourite win of all time though remains London 2012.
I sometimes get baffled by the GS obsession.
Well the tennis world generally still judges players more via slams;personally I think slams are the pinnacle, however Masters, Olympics , Davis Cup and rankings also important . Can also be high quality tennis in any tournament.
Wawrinka now favourite with the bookies. :hmm:
Stan Wawrinka 7/2
Milos Raonic 9/2
Roger Federer 5/1
Rafael Nadal 6/1
Grigor Dimitrov 10/1
I don't think playing in Doha helped Andy. Players who do well there often do not do as well at the Oz Open as those who have been in Australia for longer. It takes a good couple of weeks for the body clock to adapt to Ozzy time.
And perversely temperature chance, I do think he went there expecting to get a lot of night matches
themass15
22-01-2017, 08:08
I don't think playing in Doha helped Andy. Players who do well there often do not do as well at the Oz Open as those who have been in Australia for longer. It takes a good couple of weeks for the body clock to adapt to Ozzy time.
Couldn't agree more.
Q. You normally don't see a guy coming in 118 times. How did that affect you? How strange is it to face?
ANDY MURRAY: Well, I mean, I don't think it's so much someone necessarily coming in. It's the shots he was coming up with when he did come forward. I mean, he came up with some great pickups, you know, reflex volleys especially at the end of the match when it was tight. That was tough because I was hitting some good shots, chasing some good balls down.
Just wasn't meant to be. He served very well when he needed to, especially when he was behind in games. Yeah, he deserved to win because, you know, he played great when he was down, and also in the important moments.
I was kind of behind in the last couple of sets the whole way. But the first two sets, I had chances. I was up a break I think in both of them pretty early. Couldn't convert my opportunities.
Q. Usually you play pretty well against the serve-and-volley players. You like a target at the net. Today was it you weren't feeling your return passing shot?
ANDY MURRAY: I think he came up with some great shots. Maybe there's a few shots obviously in a match of three and a half hours that you probably could have done better with. But I did also come up with some great returns in the last game. The 30-All point, I hit a great return right down to his feet and a really good lob, and reflexed his smash. I read it well. He just kept coming up with great shots.
I think it was the point before the match point when he came up with a reflex or drop volley winner. Yeah, I mean, I don't know if I returned badly. I thought I returned reasonably well. I definitely could have served better the last couple of sets.
Q. Did you feel flat, low on energy at all? At one stage you were shouting 'energy' at the changeover.
ANDY MURRAY: I don't think I was flat. I feel like that's something I get asked all the time when I lose matches. Were you flat?
I don't think I was today. I was getting myself pumped up. Sometimes at the end of the sets I was trying to get a little more energy, you know, show more sort of positive body language. And I did that at the end of the match, at the end of the first and second sets.
It just wasn't to be today.
Q. Did you expect at some point as he got closer that he might tighten up and get nervous, realize where he was?
ANDY MURRAY: Yeah, I mean, look, I had some opportunities at the end. I think the last two service games I had chances. Maybe three service games in the last set I had opportunities. Maybe missed a couple of balls that he had been making.
But then, yeah, he came back from all of the mistakes that he made, kept coming, kept coming up with great shots. You know, there's not too much you can do about that. Sometimes you got to say, Well played.
It was obviously disappointing to lose. But, you know, he did some good stuff out there.
Q. You're the same age. You came up together through juniors. Great year, No. 1, gold medal, world champion. Is there a part of you that's happy for him?
ANDY MURRAY: Right now I'm more disappointed for myself. Obviously it's a tough one to lose. Obviously, you know, I wanted to go far in this event. It's the earliest I've lost here for, I don't know, a long time. So I'm disappointed right now.
Like I said, credit to him. He came up with great, great shots and played a really, really good match. You know, you always finish matches you lose with things you maybe could have done a bit better, but he played some really good stuff.
Q. Two lower-ranked players have beaten the very top players. Talk about the margins of error in the ATP, how that plays into today's result.
ANDY MURRAY: Yeah, I mean, obviously in the slams, with the best-of-five format, you have time, you know, to turn things around. There's also time to mess it up, I guess, as well.
But, you know, in the best-of-three set matches, it feels like there's less margin for error. If you play a bad set, you're immediately under pressure, whereas in the slams you have time to sort of figure it out and try to turn it around.
Yeah, there's always a chance to come back. You know, I didn't see Novak's match at all, but I can only comment on my match today. Every time it was close points, I put Mischa under pressure, he came up with great stuff. That's unfortunate for me and great for him. He deserves to be in the next round.
Q. Did you have any sense at any point this month, being a very long, hard end to last season, that perhaps this season had come around a little bit early?
ANDY MURRAY: Look, I mean, obviously the off-season for me was fairly short just because I had to take a decent break after the Tour Finals. But, you know, it was a great way to finish last year. I was full of confidence coming into the beginning of this year. I prepared as best as I could.
But maybe have to have a look back and assess some things and see maybe if there's some stuff I could have done differently, or did my opponent just play a great match? Sometimes that can happen, as well.
I don't know if the end of last season had any bearing on today. I wouldn't have thought so.
Q. It's very soon after the event, but what is your plan for the next few weeks?
ANDY MURRAY: I don't know what I'm going to do immediately. Have a chat to my family first. Didn't get to see loads of them at the end of last year with training and then going over to Doha and stuff. First people I'll speak to is them, see what I do.
And, yeah, Davis Cup would be next on the schedule. But whether I stay here or go home in the meantime, I'm not sure.
Q. You've been on such a run since the French Open. Is this loss a bigger shock, more brutal to you because you've been winning so much or...
ANDY MURRAY: Yeah, I'm obviously down about it. It's just tennis. I mean, I had great success for a number of months. Obviously, you know, in the biggest events you want to do your best. Obviously that's not been the case here. You know, it happens.
I've had tough losses in my career in the past. I've come back from them. This is a tough one. I'm sure I'll come back okay from it. But right now I'm obviously very down because I wanted to go further in this event, and it wasn't to be.
Q. Having been so close so many times here, is it sort of doubly disappointing? Do you feel like you missed an opportunity?
ANDY MURRAY: Did I miss an opportunity? I don't know. I mean, every year you come is a different chance, different opportunity. I mean, still, even had I got through this match, Nishikori or Roger are waiting. Stan's still in. Guys like Tsonga. I don't know exactly what's happening in the match with Dan, but you've got, I don't know, Roger plus three guys that are pretty much in the top 10 in the world in my half. There's certainly no guarantees, even if I got through today's match, that I would have gone further.
Yeah, it's disappointing to lose. I don't feel like this is any more of an opportunity than other years.
Q. Is it playing a little bit quicker this year, would that help his game?
ANDY MURRAY: I think the temperatures make it faster, definitely when it's that hot. When I played Sam the other day, it's 20 degrees and cool, that slows things down. Definitely it's a bit faster.
I don't know whether that helps his game or not. I don't know what his best surface and best conditions are. Maybe it would be best to ask him.
You get a little bit more on the serve, maybe, when it's like this. You know, it's not that easy to control volleys when the ball's flying through the air like that. He did a great job of that today.
Q. Having played your first slam tournament as No. 1, do you think it changed anything, playing in these tight moments?
ANDY MURRAY: No. I mean, I didn't think about it at all the whole time I was playing in the event and not at all when I was on the court in any of the matches.
Once you get out there, rankings are completely irrelevant, you know, in my opinion anyway. Yeah, that played no bearing on anything.
Davis Cup still seems on the schedule.
RosieBear
22-01-2017, 08:11
Wawrinka now favourite with the bookies. :hmm:
Stan Wawrinka 7/2
Milos Raonic 9/2
Roger Federer 5/1
Rafael Nadal 6/1
Grigor Dimitrov 10/1
What about Keith?
What about Keith?
Keith is next at 11/1.
Sorry for my negativity. I'm not angry at Andy, just the situation. I'm going to stop posting for now because I don't have anything positive to say.
I understand it. I also understand being disappointed, I am. I am just not gutted because I expected it for some reason.
For me reaching No 1, and getting to be one of only 17 End of Year No 1's was more important to me. I didn't expect to get both.
I shall be royally hacked off though if a contributing factor turns out to be Federer being given preferential scheduling.
Let's also remember that this is the guy who had a potentially career ending back problem, but has come back to collect another GS, another Olympic Gold, and knock off a couple of clay titles - who would ever have thought that?
What about Keith?
Please don't bet on him ;)
Stunned. Shocked. Sad. Very disappointed and very sleep deprived. Trying to come to terms with this as I'm sure Andy is. Can't bring myself to read thread just yet but I will later and will come to terms with this in a while. I do have to say well played Mischa Zverev and Andy you didn't do so bad yourself....in your words it "wasn't to be".
RosieBear
22-01-2017, 08:15
Please don't bet on him ;)
Agreed :rolling:
And perversely temperature chance, I do think he went there expecting to get a lot of night matches
Yup. I remember the year when Grosjean and Clement were in Oz for 6-7 weeks before the tournament. One got to the semis and the other the final, because they were much better aclimatized.
I must say I was rather puzzled to see Andy play Doha. There was only one year when Andy got to the finals of the Oz Open when he played in Doha and then he got knocked out of Doha in the second round so had longer to aclimatize.
hfwardhouse
22-01-2017, 08:17
Not the news I was expecting to wake up to :crying:
The way Mischa played today, I thought they would have made him the favourite.
After reading that interview, it sounds like Sir Andy will make himself available to play in the DC tie.
kenny009uk
22-01-2017, 08:21
What probably upsets me more is the thought of Stan havin 4 slams
supergran
22-01-2017, 08:21
How does everyone feel. A real shock but Mischa played tremendously well and Andy didn't. It was heart breaking watching as I had such high hopes but that's sport, that's tennis. C'set la vie! Will always be an Andy fan.
Imagine how worse this would be if Djokovic was still in the tournament. :phew: Take a bow Denis Istomin. :worship: :clap:
Rosalind
22-01-2017, 08:25
Imagine how worse this would be if Djokovic was still in the tournament. :phew: Take a bow Denis Istomin. :worship: :clap:
yes but Federer still in. Come on Kei!!!
Andy interviewed by Russell Fuller. Asked about how he responds to such shock loses. Said it was difficult when he was younger but "I have other things in my life now".
supergran
22-01-2017, 08:29
I am just really disappointed for Andy and all his supporters, I will be miserable all day. the trolls will have a field day . Hope Andy can handle it better than me.
They don't bother me. Had a tweet from some random person who said he/she was happy Andy lost. I replied saying mean-spirited people age prematurely and thanked him/ her for presuming I would be interested in what they had to say when I wasn't.
themass15
22-01-2017, 08:29
Yup. I remember the year when Grosjean and Clement were in Oz for 6-7 weeks before the tournament. One got to the semis and the other the final, because they were much better aclimatized.
I must say I was rather puzzled to see Andy play Doha. There was only one year when Andy got to the finals of the Oz Open when he played in Doha and then he got knocked out of Doha in the second round so had longer to aclimatize.
If he wants to play that week, it should be in Brisbane.
RosieBear
22-01-2017, 08:35
They don't bother me. Had a tweet from some random person who said he/she was happy Andy lost. I replied saying mean-spirited people age prematurely and thanked him/ her for presuming I would be interested in what they had to say when I wasn't.
Priceless Mo! :laugh: Saddo trolls don't bother me either, they can only hurt you if you let them - I just to avoid all write ups, social media etc - don't see the point in making myself miserable by reading baseless crap about Andy.
How much did the scheduling have a bearing??
themass15
22-01-2017, 08:37
Andy interviewed by Russell Fuller. Asked about how he responds to such shock loses. Said it was difficult when he was younger but "I have other things in my life now".
That's good to hear. Has made me feel a lot better.
If he wants to play that week, it should be in Brisbane.
Playing 250s seems to be all about the appearance fee negotiated. Andy played Brisbane twice and then the tournament bypassed him and flashed the cash to attract Federer and then this year Nadal & Wawrinka.
What??? Horrid news to wake up to.:crying: :crying:
Guerkins2
22-01-2017, 09:10
Andy interviewed by Russell Fuller. Asked about how he responds to such shock loses. Said it was difficult when he was younger but "I have other things in my life now".
I think that really showed in his demeanour in the part of the press conference they showed. He obviously looked disappointed but there wasn't that real 'down' look
I think he knew it was a big ask. He has to have been exhausted. That's why I am disappointed, but not gutted. I expected it. I suspect he did to. He never was going to have enough in the tank for Federer, Wawrinka, Nishikori et al. He has reached the final of all the GS's not many have done that. He needs to save himself for Wimbledon. Another Wimbledon would do nicely.
WimbledonWestie
22-01-2017, 09:29
Did NOT see that coming! Woke up expecting to read of a fairly routine win. Disappointing but seems like one of those days that Mischa was due his hour in the sun, unfortunately fate meant Andy was the unwilling victim. Can't comment much as didn't see the match . But am sure Andy gave 100% .
Speedy Hawk
22-01-2017, 09:42
I wake up expecting do points for FTM and shock see Andy lost! Very unexpected. Anyone can win Aussie Open now and not see this for while. Usually top player like Nole or Andy win it and before them Federer or Nadal win it. I wonder who win this Aussie Open.......
themass15
22-01-2017, 09:55
It is extremely open but I don't see Zverev going any further.
I think he knew it was a big ask. He has to have been exhausted. That's why I am disappointed, but not gutted. I expected it. I suspect he did to. He never was going to have enough in the tank for Federer, Wawrinka, Nishikori et al. He has reached the final of all the GS's not many have done that. He needs to save himself for Wimbledon. Another Wimbledon would do nicely.
Me too, Teresa. Like Andy, I am disappointed but it really isn't the end of the world. I'm sure I would have felt much more gutted if he had gone out to Fed or Stan in the quarters and the semis and whoever he was playing had he made the final. It helps, of course, that Djoko is out already. Andy is shrugging his shoulders, saying 'too good' and moving on - we should too.
supergran
22-01-2017, 10:05
Andy interviewed by Russell Fuller. Asked about how he responds to such shock loses. Said it was difficult when he was younger but "I have other things in my life now".
That's the spirit. Recovery will be so much easier than in previous years and I think a happy marriage and fatherhood will help him to get through the disappointment and spur him on.
RosieBear
22-01-2017, 10:05
Me too, Teresa. Like Andy, I am disappointed but it really isn't the end of the world. I'm sure I would have felt much more gutted if he had gone out to Fed or Stan in the quarters and the semis and whoever he was playing had he made the final. It helps, of course, that Djoko is out already. Andy is shrugging his shoulders, saying 'too good' and moving on - we should too.
Me too. Fed is looking ominous with his blitzkrieg tennis and I'd been concerned about a repeat of the awful Wimbo semi ever since I watch Fed/Berdy. If Andy had to go out, I find it much easier to take when it's a rare combination of Mischa playing out of his skin and Andy being a bit off. Can just say oh well, one of those unfortunate things, but a another Fed attack would have been very difficult to take.
Me too. Fed is looking ominous with his blitzkrieg tennis and I'd been concerned about a repeat of the awful Wimbo semi ever since I watch Fed/Berdy. If Andy had to go out, I find it much easier to take when it's a rare combination of Mischa playing out of his skin and Andy being a bit off. Can just say oh well, one of those unfortunate things, but a another Fed attack would have been very difficult to take.
Now there we are in complete agreement. I just couldn't see how after his amazing feats at the end of last year, he would hbe recovered enough for this tournament. That why I was fairly sure he would go out early.
dewster99
22-01-2017, 10:17
Wouldn't be surprised if Fed wins it to be honest. Fed v nadal final?
supergran
22-01-2017, 10:17
Did NOT see that coming! Woke up expecting to read of a fairly routine win. Disappointing but seems like one of those days that Mischa was due his hour in the sun, unfortunately fate meant Andy was the unwilling victim. Can't comment much as didn't see the match . But am sure Andy gave 100% .
He did and he played well but not as well as we have seen him in past slams. He was pumping himself up and seemed full of energy. Perhaps too many errors and Mischa's lights-out brilliance made the difference today. Exciting to watch and I would love to see Mischa go further. That would be a story wouldn't it?
What about Keith?
I'll give you 1000-1 RB
I've had some time to digest all this. Realistically, and much as we would like it to happen, I suppose we can't expect Andy to win EVERY match he plays (he has said that himself before now), that would be unreal. He is human. So I guess we take this on the chin and move on. There is a long season ahead with loads to happen and to look forward to. Firstly this might mean he will play DC? Perhaps then Raonic will make it to the finals of the AO and be too knackered to play DC....and with Andy there????...there's a silver lining in every cloud!
I was wondering when was the last time that both the #1 & 2 seeds in the men's draw lost before the QF in a major??
And finally...THERE'S STILL JO!!!!
themass15
22-01-2017, 10:30
Wouldn't be surprised if Fed wins it to be honest. Fed v nadal final?
That's what I would like now with Rafa winning
I'm not finding excuses but has Fed played all his in the evening? If so they really should make it even across the top 8 players as the heat in Aussie must really play a factor. I realise that Fed is worshipped by many and is older and has been injured but that shouldn't really come into the scheduling. Fairness is important. However if he has had afternoon matches then that is all OK!!
HoopGirl
22-01-2017, 11:02
Gutted!
Nessie, I thought this myself.
I'm hoping for a first time winner, raonic ? Maybe even Tsonga's due one
I was thinking that as well. I'd like it to be a real outsider, I certainly don't want SmugFed to get another one or Stan to overtake Andy. I wouldn't mind Kei as I think he's due one. Well on the bright side, it'll be a less stressful week next week and go JoKo!
themass15
22-01-2017, 11:11
I'm not finding excuses but has Fed played all his in the evening? If so they really should make it even across the top 8 players as the heat in Aussie must really play a factor. I realise that Fed is worshipped by many and is older and has been injured but that shouldn't really come into the scheduling. Fairness is important. However if he has had afternoon matches then that is all OK!!
He has one daytime match.
I'm not finding excuses but has Fed played all his in the evening? If so they really should make it even across the top 8 players as the heat in Aussie must really play a factor. I realise that Fed is worshipped by many and is older and has been injured but that shouldn't really come into the scheduling. Fairness is important. However if he has had afternoon matches then that is all OK!!
To be fair, I think it's not only the Fed factor but the opponents he has had that has influenced the scheduling. It was obvious that they would put Fed/Berdy on as the night match and the same with Fed/Kei. Maybe it shouldn't be that way - maybe they should share it out more equally but I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon.
themass15
22-01-2017, 11:58
Not when unfortunately it is only too obvious that Federer is still way the most popular player of all.
Someone told me that at the AO they allocate courts & times according to who is the biggest crowd puller - if that's the case it's not surprising that Fed gets all the plum slots.
DaveArneRiise
22-01-2017, 12:11
Was genuinely shocked when I woke up to this. Such a convincing loss too, absolutely gutting.
In a way I am pleased for Zverev though and it's refreshing to see someone who serves and volleys do well on this age. Rare breed these days!
andy lost because he never figured out how to play zverev. zverev played in such a different way, and with such variety that he bamboozled andy, reverse of what usually happens. andy's serve was not on song today, and failing to serve out the first set was important.
Did NOT see that coming! Woke up expecting to read of a fairly routine win. Disappointing but seems like one of those days that Mischa was due his hour in the sun, unfortunately fate meant Andy was the unwilling victim. Can't comment much as didn't see the match . But am sure Andy gave 100% .
Good luck with the inspection, Westie. Sock it to them!!!!
Josephine
22-01-2017, 12:54
Well I am gutted. Awake half the night with toothache, then Andy losing. Thought after second set, all would be well. After he was broken in 3rd set I just fast forwarded recording. Somehow I knew it wasn't going to go well.
Credit to Zverev, but the faster courts did make a difference. Such a shame Andy could not serve out first set - I could not believe he lost it.
I am really disappointed - I hate seeing him walk past the pictures of all the previous winners to get to the court - we know he wants his name there. So I feel very sad for Andy. Of course he has other things in his life, but he also did say he felt really down about the result.
Winning Oz Open with Djoko, Fed, Nadal and everyone else in the draw would really have cemented that number 1 spot and I don't mean in numbers, I mean in showing he is the totally dominant figure.
I will watch some matches now but personally do not give 2 hoops who wins.
And please no-one tell me how I am allowed to feel. That is up to me.
Wouldn't dream of it, I share your pain Josephine.
WimbledonWestie
22-01-2017, 13:15
Good luck with the inspection, Westie. Sock it to them!!!!
Thanks. Another week of prep, three days of inspection- then time to enjoy the Davis cup. Shame the tennis won't be quite such a distraction this week- dear Andy, I could've coped with both stresses, you didn't need to be such a gent.
.......I will watch some matches now but personally do not give 2 hoops who wins.
And please no-one tell me how I am allowed to feel. That is up to me.
I have lost a wee bit of interest too Josephine. Hope you get your toothache sorted soon. Bad company.
We still have Jo to fly the flag though!:GBflag:
Andy's play today was no disgrace. I think Andy's summary of the match is cool. He reckons he played ok, admitted he could have done a few things better, but mostly conceded that Mischa played extraordinarily well. Even when Andy put some returns very low at his feet, Mischa was managing to dig them back over the net. Andy did not expect that. So... it is what it is...we move on.
Hope Andy and family decide to stay in Oz for a few days and have a holiday in the sun before flying home. I think he is emotionally / mentally tired rather than physically tired so a few days r and r before the flight home / trip to ottawa would help. This is why he did not find a way to respond to Mischa. When things went wrong in the third set was the time to try spending much more time at the net. Think if he is not injured he will benefit from the team prep and matches at the Davis Cup.
Well said, Patlowe. Zverev himself said that he didn't know how he got some of those shots back - it was just one of those days - it happens. It doesn't mean that Andy has suddenly become a bad player.
Josephine
22-01-2017, 13:50
It seems a long time since Andy lost to a player really below him in the rankings.
If he had been playing, Fed, Stan, Rafa etc I would have been a bit nervous and excited for him. But this I just assumed he would win, so somehow it hits harder.
Zverev was amazing but I do think the change in the court speed had something to do with it.
Oh well. Just have to hope for better soon. I just really wanted Andy to win the Australian - after all those heartbreaking losses. Not so bothered about DC - he's won that! Though I know it will be nice for him to be with the team.
I have lost a wee bit of interest too Josephine. Hope you get your toothache sorted soon. Bad company.
I feel quite gutted too as he just didn't do himself justice. Not clear thinking which could well a mentally tired brain. Still luckily he has secured no 1 for some time and is -6000 above no 3 and the rest. I guess we do have to just move on as we know Andy will.
patmoren
22-01-2017, 15:05
Just one of those days that his opponent played out of his skin to get the better of Andy. Someone who dominates the net that much is difficult to play and also he was serving very well so Andy couldn't manage so many of his unreturnable returns. C'est la vie!
angiebabez
22-01-2017, 15:27
My heart hurts & will do for a few days i expect! Andy must feel much much worse no matter what he says. Feel for him..would be nice to see him playing DC for purely selfish reasons as i miss him a lot when i dont see him play for weeks on end but respect whatever he decides & is best for him. Only upside from this loss is its the very start of the year & i know we have so much more fantastic tennis to watch from andy through the year. Look forward to plenty more trophy lifting x
My heart hurts & will do for a few days i expect! Andy must feel much much worse no matter what he says. Feel for him..would be nice to see him playing DC for purely selfish reasons as i miss him a lot when i dont see him play for weeks on end but respect whatever he decides & is best for him. Only upside from this loss is its the very start of the year & i know we have so much more fantastic tennis to watch from andy through the year. Look forward to plenty more trophy lifting x
I think that is part of our problem...we have become so used to Andy winning that it really hurts when he eventually loses, esp one that would have meant a lot to him. But certainly plenty more opportunities to lift more trophies!
Josephine
22-01-2017, 18:24
Yes. I'm sure. But I think his confidence will be knocked a bit. Long time since he lost in a slam to such a low ranked opponent.
Just feel that this year he was never quite playing as aggressively and positively as he did at end of last year, and that may all be due to the huge effort to get to No 1.
At least he is still No 1!! Could have been a lot worse if Nole had played better!
Onwards and upwards. Hope Andy feels revived soon and comes out fighting. Both Fed and Nadal back makes things pretty interesting again...
roytennisfan
22-01-2017, 20:09
It was not just the loss to a lower ranked player but also that he was broken 8 times by someone reckoned to be weak on returns, there is no doubting Andy was below par both on serving and receiving. Normally it is the kiss of death to rush to the net against Andy but his lobs and passing shots were nothing like his best and as mentioned, he was too passive. However, Andy normally finds a way to win, as he had done numerous times in similar situations at the slams and the Olympics in 2016. Hopefully as normal, he will assess, adjust and perform stronger, thus extending his points lead considerably over the next few months
I think, and hope, that Andy is experienced enough to see it for what it is - a one off. He has come back fighting from worse defeats than this.
I thought I might have come round a wee bit by now, but I still hurt like hell. Trying to be positive and also trying to avoid media which is sensationalising it so much. Not helped by sleep deprivation! A good nights sleep should help!
I thought I might have come round a wee bit by now, but I still hurt like hell. Trying to be positive and also trying to avoid media which is sensationalising it so much. Not helped by sleep deprivation! A good nights sleep should help!
Totally agreed with your sentiments. I'm exactly the same! Early bed and lots of sleep.
themass15
22-01-2017, 21:26
I am trying to get over it by watching Ronnie O'Sullivan in the Masters. 1 frame away from the win now.
Had a bad feeling about this match. It's pie in the sky but I really hope Andy take serious note of what volleying can achieve and that he starts some intense net practice sooner rather than later.
Sorry but I disagree that this was a one off from Zverev. Did no one pay any attention to his rise up the rankings last year. Clearly due to his volleying strategy. Andy said before the match that Zverev's approach to the game is unorthodox because of how much he volleys.
Andy didn't serve as well as needed and dumped too many shots in the net. But let's not kid ourselves about passing shots. We expect him to make them all the time or at least more often than not. However that's against players who, like Andy himself, don't practise their net skills often enough. Zverev on the other hand has adopted the net as the mainstay of his game. Result? He's a volleyer like the"old school" ones. I've wondered greatly of late why passing shots have become so important. IMHO is because they increased in use and effectiveness once baseline tennis came into fashion and players lost the natural ability to defend/attack at the net. It seemed to me that it used to be virtually impossible to pass someone at the net and I've watched a lot of play in recent times where I've thought defence at the net was pretty pathetic and balls fly by that should be stopped/put away. Zverev confirmed that opinion today. He got to most net balls and returned some very tricky shots......because the net is second nature. Watching Dan I've felt the same.
So I really hope Andy learns from today and embraces the net. We all know how good he is there. He needs to be more willing to grasp new ideas quickly. We waited soooo long for aggression and look how well that's worked. Oh and yes......he does seem to have been playing more defensively again of late. I hope Mr Lentils gives him what for!!!
supergran
23-01-2017, 02:01
Good post pabbers expressing so clearly what I was thinking during the match.Time for a rethink and changes which I'm sure Andy will consider seriously. Reflecting calmly Mischa's game was a joy to behold. Such a refreshing change from baseline play and I too think he'll be a danger to those boom boom merchants. Andy has this type of game in his repertoire and now, as you say, needs to go full tilt and practise and employ it consistently. I would dearly love to see Andy play like this. From the beginning of the match I was worried which I never am in slams usually. The good thing is Andy always says he'll look to improve and disn't afraid of hard work. I'm certain Lendl will have a word with him. Mischa was the better player as Andy acknowledged and I hope be goes further next week. Thanks Pat for your interesting and pertinent post.
Agree with both Pabbers and Supergran. I too had a bad feel about this tournament and did expect him to go out early, as I said. I didn't quite know why, but it was probably linked to the fact I felt it was impossible to keep up the standard he exhibited at the end of last year for much longer. Logically he had to be exhausted. The first signs were losing the Cincinatti final to Cillic. How the heck he then summoned up the energy to go on the tear to No 1 I will never know, but I am so glad he did.
My only issue is with the comments that Lendl needs to have words with him. They need to have a mature discussion. SAM is not an errant school boy. After all Lendl prepared him for the tournament, so if there was any blame (not that there us), Lendl must share it.
The Times article this morning has sent my blood boiling "Humbled Brit.....". I have pointed out bluntly that he was no more humbled than Federer was going out to 116 ranked Sergiy Stakhovsky in Wimbledon 2013. Ditto Nadal to Darcis the same year. All the top players can be dangerous on their day.
How quickly people forget the 6,5,4,3,2 stunt he pulled at The WTF a few short weeks ago. I might be alone about that one, (I so often am), but I would rather have had him gaining the No 1 slot, and The Year End No 1, than the AO.
I am disappointed, even though I expected it. However the only truly difficult thing to deal with is the vile media. Who do bad things to my blood pressure.
Murray's difficulty is not unheard of Lendl fought tooth and nail for the Wimbledon Title and never pulled it off, even though he came so close. It happens.
As for Zverev - it might be he is going to usher in a new (old) style of play. I imagine those of you who have bern following tennis for decades have seen that turn of the wheel before. Tennis and the players might have to adjust. Evolution can be a positive thing, in keeping a sport fresh. It's just unfortunate our man collided head on with the new order.
themass15
23-01-2017, 07:47
Very good post Teresa. I too did not have a good feel about this tournament simply because Andy has played so much tennis and his body hasn't had time to recover. Hopefully he and his team will evaluate the situation and make sure he is fit and ready for the more important tournaments later this year.
I have only one concern and that is that Lendl was not keen on coming to the net
Radio five live had to have Russell Fuller on, yet again, earlier. He said Sir Andy would be coming home today, but didn't know if Sir Andy would be playing in the DC tie next weekend. Russell thought Sir Andy lost because he'd played too much tennis last year. What a load of rubbish, it was because Zverev was too good.
I agree - think his problem is mental tiredness. Also suspect too much fitness training and too little tactical training in the abbreviated period in Miami. However it's not the end of the world. It might be better not to play Davis cup but I think he will. From there he could return to Miami for more training plus holiday or take a break and then go early to Dubai and do the same there.
Radio five live had to have Russell Fuller on, yet again, earlier. He said Sir Andy would be coming home today, but didn't know if Sir Andy would be playing in the DC tie next weekend. Russell thought Sir Andy lost because he'd played too much tennis last year. What a load of rubbish, it was because Zverev was too good.
Sorry I think you are completely wrong. If he hadn't been so exhausted, and I am talking mental and physical exhaustion here, he would have been able to work Zverev out and deal with him. Zverev was good because Murray let him be good on that occasion.
John McEnroe was of the same opinion. I am afraid I would trust him ahead of you.
themass15
23-01-2017, 09:53
Whilst John McEnroe can be irritating he probably make the most pertinent comments of them all.
RosieBear
23-01-2017, 10:55
I too would like to echo Mrs P's sentiments. I would like Andy to come to the net more in general but especially during the Doha final and this match I was imploring Andy to come forward (to shorten the points against Nole and claim the net against Mischa to stop him imposing his game style). I just don't understand why Andy doesn't s&v more - if he wasn't a talented volleyer his reluctance would be understandable, but Andy is superb at the net. As I said after Doha it baffles me why Andy chooses to leave this kind of gold in the mine. (This isn't a criticism btw, it's a compliment about his skills).
It's not a coaching issue - while Mr Lendl wasn't a renowned volleyer himself, because he lacked touch, he was and is a fan/advocate of all things aggressive.
Mac commentating on Rafa/Monf just said that Andy best volleyer on men's tour (if he put his mind to it). Don't agree with everything thing he says, but Mac certainly knows a thing or two about volleying.
I have only one concern and that is that Lendl was not keen on coming to the net
That was my feelings. I was going to leave it a while to give the sores time to heal, but as it's started I won't hold back.:sofa:
If and this is in Andy's words all matches are tough and it can be just on a couple of important points.
Then can someone please explain to me why the learning is going to be done after the loss?
Why wasn't the plan all in place by watching the opponents previous matches intensely, if what ever changes are made
next time he's playing zev to get the win had been sorted before this meeting, it would never have happened. imho.
I started to be concerned when Andy revealed in a post match interview that he hadn't watched Nole's last match.
Surely you would be interested in seeing what did the job? Can we learn anything from scrutenising isties play?
Also with the timing of the match and it being hotter the strategy had to have a plan B and C knowing full well that
Andy's thinking about fuelling all the way to the end of the tourney and Zev isn't.
Leaving it all to Andy to sort out on court is not the way.
As for Andy being more aggressive and shortening the points or taking the game to Zev. I would'ave thought that
was one of the things Andy could'ave sorted. It's not like he can't move or volly we've all seen him partner his Bro
in DC. He's better than most at the net.
None of us are close enough to know the full story. it's most likely a mix of things,
but I will put my life on it that somewhere in the mix the maxim "Fail to prepare, prepare to fail" fits quite well.
Lets all hope the whole team looks very closely at this and make the changes needed to sort this, so it's not a case
of shutting the gate AFTER the horse has bolted. As it is going to be this time.
As for Andy suffering burn out.... I don't believe it happened Andy can often look like there's nothing left in the tank.
I would'ave thought he was at his most burned out playing the WTF finals and look how he beat Nole.
Sorry but the whole team have to sit down and without portioning blame need to each work out what they could do
better to make sure it's a one off. Get all the best ingredients together and bake the best cake.
Although I'm sure their already on it.
That's my 5 cents.:getcoat:
A player who in his own words at age 29 played the "best match of my life" and the reaction is Andy should amend a game style which won him 90% of his matches last year. Andy had a poor serving day yesterday which can happen but he is doing mighty fine. :shades:
The forum would collapse(even more often) if as much was written each time he won a match. ;)
themass15
23-01-2017, 12:36
At times yesterday morning I couldn't get on to it which I am sure was just overload.
A player who in his own words at age 29 played the "best match of my life" and the reaction is Andy should amend a game style which won him 90% of his matches last year. Andy had a poor serving day yesterday which can happen but he is doing mighty fine. :shades:
The forum would collapse(even more often) if as much was written each time he won a match. ;)
Andy has more than one style and he amends it opponent, court, conditions wise.
Not as much as others like say fed for instance, but as RB said why leave that gold in the mine?
I do agree the serve was poor. All the more reason to have a plan b and c.
If he had pushed to the net and won we would'ave been saying he won it even
without his best service game. For someone who is supposed to be a fan of boxing
he should know what a distance fighter like Ali has to do to beat a close range
short reach fighter like Frazer. Don't do the same as you do with Norton or Foreman.
Horses for courses.
The reason for the amount of writing I believe is down to "If it inna brock, dunna fix it"
Remember opinions are like bum holes, everybody has one.
But two heads are better than one , even it one's a donkey's.
"EEEEOOORRR."
Andy has more than one style and he amends it opponent, court, conditions wise.
Not as much as others like say fed for instance, but as RB said why leave that gold in the mine?
I do agree the serve was poor. All the more reason to have a plan b and c.
If he had pushed to the net and won we would'ave been saying he won it even
without his best service game. For someone who is supposed to be a fan of boxing
he should know what a distance fighter like Ali has to do to beat a close range
short reach fighter like Frazer. Don't do the same as you do with Norton or Foreman.
Horses for courses.
The reason for the amount of writing I believe is down to "If it inna brock, dunna fix it"
Remember opinions are like bum holes, everybody has one.
But two heads are better than one , even it one's a donkey's.
"EEEEOOORRR."
Andy hit 71 winners which is as rare as Federer being scheduled on an outside court so I'd argue he did have a plan B but Zverev put in an immense performance on the day. As Andy said after Djokovic's loss to Istomin, it's unreasonable to expect him to win every match.
I couldn't bring myself to read and post on this thread yesterday. That was a sore one.
Unlike some other friends on here, I was really optimistic about the AO this year. The incredible run to number 1 at the end of 2016 would, I thought, be just what he needed to come in with lots of confidence and a bit of swagger (I know that's not him, but was hoping that it would an extra bounce to his step at least). I thought that as he had ticked a lot of boxes - DC champion, number 1 - that this year his goal would be absolutely to set about increasing the number of Slam titles, and highest on the list has to be the AO and the French because those would give him the career golden slam.
However, after last year's AO final defeat I really started to think that the career slam might not happen. Some players have one Slam that just eludes them, no matter how many other Slam titles they achieve and how many other titles. Lendl being the prime example with Wimbledon being his big miss. Earlier in Andy's career I thought that the elusive Slam would be the French, but I do actually believe he could win that. Its the AO that I think is going to be the missing link. I know that last year was really a series of unfortunate events - impending birth of first child, father in law took ill - and the other finals he just wasn't quite good enough on the day. Perhaps without the added off court stress in 2016 he might have done it.
For this year, as I said, I was confident and even although the draw looked horrific it was the QF, SF, Final stages that seemed to hold the most danger. We all know from previous tournaments though that things rarely go exactly according to plan and the draw often opens up. How our hearts soared when Novak was beaten in 2R.
Yesterday, I did not feel nervous at the start - unlike on Friday when I felt a bit sick at the beginning of the Querrey match. Despite what everyone was saying about Zverev's game, I honestly thought Andy would do what he always did: find a way, figure out how to neutralise him. Even if it meant going 5 sets, he would do it. Its what we've come to expect of him with tricky opponents. I don't hold with the exhausted theory, at least not physically. But about the only thing that didn't annoy me from Mats Wilander on the commentary was him saying that its the mental exhaustion playing against someone like Zverev. Yes, he is known to come to the net and volley a lot. But he's also quite unorthodox, and that combination makes him a very very difficult opponent. So even the supremo at figuring out someone's game, like Andy, and being a fabulous defensive player and brilliant returner is going to struggle. Maybe it would have been an even more convincing win against someone not as good at the defence and return.
I found myself wondering during the match if there was anything else on Andy's mind though. He's an emotional type and wears his heart on his sleeve. He's not going to change. But he seemed to be out of sorts. Maybe it was just an off day, we all have them, he certainly can have them. First set with balls that didn't quite hit the mark, I was thinking oh its a change of conditions/court etc, its just another mental calculation for him and he'll have it sorted in the next set. But he kept seeming to misjudge the lines - shots went long and wide that would normally be pinpoint accurate even from a seemingly ridiculous "he's got no chance" position. And he just never seemed to quite read Zverev which I honestly thought he would do.
I've read/heard elsewhere this morning someone - might have been Agassi - saying what others have said previously. That Andy needs to be more aggressive, and that his solid defensive play stops him being aggressive. That if he was actually a bit worse at defending, and had to rely more on using aggression in matches, that he would be unstoppable because actually he is an amazing aggressive player and unbelievable at the net. How Andy changes that, I'm not sure. Over to the team!
Was the preparation for the Zverev match wrong? Only Andy and the team can answer that and they're not going to publicly.
It is disappointing, we're not used to Andy losing so early in a Slam. But I'm sure the person hurting the most is Andy himself. He will bounce back hopefully quickly. I'm not convinced that playing DC is the right decision, although I do think being around the team would be beneficial - we know how much he gets from that environment.
And, I had to keep reminding myself yesterday of what we often say. If it all ended now, if he decided enough was enough and he was calling it a day, it would be devastating but he has already achieved so much - those 3 Slams, 2 Olympic golds and DC add up to an unbelievable tally. We selfishly want more, but he's given us so much to cheer about. The occasional loss of a match is not the end of the world "its just tennis".
Sorry for the long ramble :)
Although I slated Mac about his comment at the time, I think both he and Teresa are right. I do think Andy is mentally and emotionally drained after his incredible run to the end of the year. I also still think that the match against Zverev was a 'one off' that was due to a combination of a number of circumstances combining to create a perfect storm - a fast court in the heat of the day; Andy being drained and not playing his best; Zverev playing out of his skin and having - on his own admission - quite a lot of luck. On another day, Andy would probably have beaten Mischa easily in three sets - indeed, if Andy had served out the first set, the story may well have been very different. I agree that we seem to be transitioning to more of an 'all court' game, and I am the first to applaud that, but I just cannot see a wholesale sudden return to an all out serve and volley game - the courts in general are just too slow for that. The strange thing is that, for the first time, I am really not disappointed by Andy's early loss. I would much rather he lost to Mischa in the fourth round than he went on to lose to Fed in the quarters or Stan in the semis or whoever might have made the finals from the other half of the draw. Andy hasn't suddenly forgotten how to play top drawer tennis. Hopefully, he will give himself time to rest and recuperate and then come bouncing back, full of verve and vigour, ready and able to defend his number one ranking.
I'm afraid I don't buy into the physically/or mentally exhausted theory. If that's the case he won't be #1 for long. Think about how many tournaments N Nole played where he went deep/won time after time for not just a few months. If Andy can't manage that.........
Also I don't think he was fully prepared for what happened. Even if he'd watched a video I don't think it would have dampened his belief in his ability to pass anyone at the net. But the proof of the pudding was most definitely in the eating.......not! He may have to swallow the bitter pill of learning how to fight fire with fire. If this is the new/old style of play he's going to have to learn to deal with it and more and more players are beginning to come to the net - Rafa and Nole - Andy risks being left behind. I'd say his main problem from watching him is not hand skills but knowing WHEN to come in. I've said this before. He leaves some opportunities go begging whilst choosing to make his approach on a more difficult shot, fluffing it and is then put off from coming in again.
Clearly I should be coaching him ;)
RosieBear
23-01-2017, 14:06
I would also add that it's not just about the number/% of matches won, another consideration is effeciency of those wins. Why not knock a third off match duration off by incorporating more s&v? It's not about overhauling his game style, just coming forward a bit more. As I said, I'm not criticising, just perplexed at Andy under-using a skill that many would kill for.
Josephine
23-01-2017, 14:15
Just to say I agree with a lot of Jan's post. Well said. In particular this part:
"I've read/heard elsewhere this morning someone - might have been Agassi - saying what others have said previously. That Andy needs to be more aggressive, and that his solid defensive play stops him being aggressive. That if he was actually a bit worse at defending, and had to rely more on using aggression in matches, that he would be unstoppable because actually he is an amazing aggressive player and unbelievable at the net. How Andy changes that, I'm not sure. Over to the team!"
I do think there is some truth there. He spent so many years in defensive mode, then when Lendl came along got that forehand working so much better (how I wish he had done that sooner) and massively increased his aggression on court. But I think the last little while, no player could beat his defence so he could rely on that. But now with a quicker court, Dkoko, Fed, Rafa and maybe others are good enough to beat him. So you are right, he needs to somehow become more attacking, but can he change from his predominant game style for years? Federer always was an aggressive player, so for him to then come to the net more often and produce stunning attacking shots was an extension, not a revision. Do hope Andy can review and be brave enough to be more attacking.
Andy hit 71 winners which is as rare as Federer being scheduled on an outside court so I'd argue he did have a plan B but Zverev put in an immense performance on the day. As Andy said after Djokovic's loss to Istomin, it's unreasonable to expect him to win every match.
It doesn't matter how many winners anyone hits it's the score line/outcome that counts.
The plan b means plan to win not hit more winners. 71 would normally be enough
but as I said this wasn't normal it was an unortherdox player that needed to be NOT
allowed to play his game. So how will the team stop it happening again even on an off day,
service wise or other? And if they do come up with a plan b,c or even d, I was trying to
put forward that wouldn't it have been better doing it before this match and not the next.
And carry on that mantra into the future.
"it's unreasonable to expect him to win every match."
On the other hand ask Andy if he thought it was reasonable to expect him to loose that match?
Or to loose that match if he could play it again, and if he could what would he do different?
And how much of those changes should and could have already been implimented the first time.
Cos I think if they had we would be looking forward to his match against Fed.
As has already been said no one is more upset than Andy. I hope the team accept this as their
next challenge.
Andy uses things like #'s about dreams and destiny and stuff well if it helps I have a couple.
#If in doubt check it out. #leave no stone unturned. #measure it twice cut it once.
#If defence isn't working take the weapon out of their hands.
#No use taking a sledge hammer when you need a scalpel.
How I'm feeling doesn't matter this isn't about me.
It's just constructive criticism. It can be just as useful as support if it gets to the right channel.
so.
Go Andy:GBflag::bravo::knight::battle:
:cheers: and :thanks: for being so inspirational with all you're hard work and perseverance.
And all the entertainment you've served up for us over the years.
But as you know nothing is perfect and there's always room for improvement.
We're just pointing out our observations hoping they may help.
Oh and while we're at it, that goes for all the others. Dan, Jamie, Kedders the team et all.
And Johanna my love you was simply awesome today now go get Screamer Williams.
"LIKE YOU MEAN IT!!!":flowers::hug::love:
I'm afraid I don't buy into the physically/or mentally exhausted theory. If that's the case he won't be #1 for long. Think about how many tournaments N Nole played where he went deep/won time after time for not just a few months. If Andy can't manage that.........
Also I don't think he was fully prepared for what happened. Even if he'd watched a video I don't think it would have dampened his belief in his ability to pass anyone at the net. But the proof of the pudding was most definitely in the eating.......not! He may have to swallow the bitter pill of learning how to fight fire with fire. If this is the new/old style of play he's going to have to learn to deal with it and more and more players are beginning to come to the net - Rafa and Nole - Andy risks being left behind. I'd say his main problem from watching him is not hand skills but knowing WHEN to come in. I've said this before. He leaves some opportunities go begging whilst choosing to make his approach on a more difficult shot, fluffing it and is then put off from coming in again.
Clearly I should be coaching him ;)
Andy and Djoko are two very different people. Maybe Andy doesn't have the mental/emotional resilience that Novak has or had - for whatever reason - but, whatever we or the various pundits think or say, no-one knows better than Andy how he feels and what he has to do to maximise the years he has left on the tour. He is a brilliant tactician, that - and his talent and hard work - are what have got him to where he is now. The top players are looking to improve their game all the time - if Andy feels that he should make adjustments to his game, I'm sure we can trust him to do that. I just can't believe that there is all this gloom and despondency just because he lost a match most of us expected him to win. It happens - unexpected losses have happened to all the top players and I'm sure will again. As Becker once said when he went out in the first round at Wimbledon, "I lost a tennis match - nobody died!" I'm sure Andy will put it behind him and move on - I think we should too.
sir coolerking
23-01-2017, 14:45
For me the sadness is that ths was his chance to finally win the Aussie Open. Normally when opportunities present themselves to him he's like a rat up a drainpipe. But this time he's not grasped it. Yes, Zverev played well and a brand of tennis we don't normally see (although great to see it). But big servers and target men at the net have normally been Andy's meat and drink, the challenge he loves. Still not sure what went wrong this time, just put it down to an off day probably.
Hope he comes back strong and positive, previously Aussie losses have effected him for months. Although I sensed he took this in a far more mature manner.
@ Pabbers - I take on board what you are saying, but I think there are other considerations with Andy Murray. I think Rimarli said a while back that it's almost unheard of for a sportsman with Murray's type of back problem to return to the highest levels of sport after surgery. He also still must have a residual weakness from his patellar issue. I suspect winning takes a harder toll on his body than some others. I shudder to think what his and Djokovic's style of play is doing to their bodies. I suspect both of them will be getting to know their orthopaedic consultants extremely well in their retirements.
As for comparing him with Djokovic, Nadal and Federer it's been done so many times over the years, and I am not sure why. Murray is who he is, warts and all. I don't think he is going to change now. All of us on here have chosen The Murray as our main man. I think he is a very complex man, and deeper than a lot of people (not on here I hasten to add), give him credit for. He lacks the - for lack of a better word "fake ness" of the others, and I mean that in the sense of I think the others give a carefully crafted persona for the public. Djokovic's repulsive victory celebration for example, and when you see the facade slip when Federer loses - the "Mr Nice Guy disappears". Murray is who he is. If being who he is means he doesn't hold on to the No 1 slot as long as other people, that's fine by me.
The argument is that Djokovic is losing his mojo because he achieved the 4 Grand Slams. It is possible that Murray wanted the No 1 slot more than he let on, and there is a bit of the post mega achievement let down going on.
Last year was a hell of a year for him, becoming a dad, record Queen's title, another Wimbledon, Flag Bearer, another Olympic Gold, and then chasing down the No 1. He and all his fans perhaps have to adjust to the fact that last year was a one off. It's highly unlikely to be repeated. As Pat Lowe said, we all got used to him winning everything in sight at the end of last year. Now we all have to adjust to normality - but how brilliant is it that we had 2016.
I hope this is not coming over as patronising- that's not my intention, but it's how I feel. If you have the extreme highs, then the extreme lows must be part of that cycle. I stand by my view that he is physically and mentally exhausted.
Federer had to re define his style of play to keep going as long as he has. It is highly possible that Murray now has to make that adjustment, but I am sure he, Lendl, and Jamie D are on the case.
themass15
23-01-2017, 15:47
Very good post Teresa.
Hi Teresa you say "I stand by my view that he is physically and mentally exhausted."
I'm sorry i don't agree and here's why.
If that had been Nadal, Stan, or even 5 set slugger Kie he would have won and been getting ready for Fed.
Based on the grounds of an earlier post of mine referring to the 5 setter in brum, march last year.
He was absolutely dead on his feet at the end against Kie and still found a way. He's as fit as a butchers dog.
With a lot more left in the tank than he had on that Sunday.
He's showed no signs of fatigue in his last two matches.
So I'm sticking to my theory, and let's see if Andy meet's zev or a major serve and volly'er again if he changes tack.
I know what my money will be on. Unless he's not as smart as we think he is, which I don't believe is the case btw.
I'm afraid I don't buy into the physically/or mentally exhausted theory. If that's the case he won't be #1 for long. Think about how many tournaments N Nole played where he went deep/won time after time for not just a few months. If Andy can't manage that.........
Also I don't think he was fully prepared for what happened. Even if he'd watched a video I don't think it would have dampened his belief in his ability to pass anyone at the net. But the proof of the pudding was most definitely in the eating.......not! He may have to swallow the bitter pill of learning how to fight fire with fire. If this is the new/old style of play he's going to have to learn to deal with it and more and more players are beginning to come to the net - Rafa and Nole - Andy risks being left behind. I'd say his main problem from watching him is not hand skills but knowing WHEN to come in. I've said this before. He leaves some opportunities go begging whilst choosing to make his approach on a more difficult shot, fluffing it and is then put off from coming in again.
Clearly I should be coaching him ;)
:thumbup:
I totally agree and even if watching the video hadn't done the trick from out of the blocks he may well have learned later that it wasn't going to be enough
so he could have had a plan B especially if some of his team had prepped him for it.
Also as RB has said why leave it in the mine, he can s&v along with the best of em.
@Rosiebear
I would also add that it's not just about the number/% of matches won, another consideration is effeciency of those wins. Why not knock a third off match duration off by incorporating more s&v? It's not about overhauling his game style, just coming forward a bit more. As I said, I'm not criticising, just perplexed at Andy under-using a skill that many would kill for.
Just wonderful.:flowers:
Hi Alis. points below:
Andy and Djoko are two very different people. Maybe Andy doesn't have the mental/emotional resilience that Novak has or had - for whatever reason
Yep they are but andy's resilience physicaly or mental is at least on a par if not better than Djoko. imo
- but, whatever we or the various pundits think or say, no-one knows better than Andy how he feels and what he has to do to maximise the years he has left on the tour. He is a brilliant tactician, that - and his talent and hard work - are what have got him to where he is now.
So if you want to maximise your years/energy why not s&v more?
The top players are looking to improve their game all the time - if Andy feels that he should make adjustments to his game, I'm sure we can trust him to do that.
Looks to me there is no if, the sooner he does it the better, how about yesterday for instance?
I just can't believe that there is all this gloom and despondency just because he lost a match most of us expected him to win. It happens - unexpected losses have happened to all the top players and I'm sure will again.
There's no doom and gloom just points of view and an overwhelming desire not to have to go through it again. (Which we will most probably have to.) but there's no harm in trying.
As Becker once said when he went out in the first round at Wimbledon, "I lost a tennis match - nobody died!"
Shame!
I'm sure Andy will put it behind him and move on - I think we should too.
But not before he's done all he can to address it fully eh?
And we've filled up another 20 pages of differing opinions.
Just a shame he ain't likely to read it. As I think we've covered most of the possibilities, he could wade through them and pick the ones out he needs to address.
A bit like a Hayne's car manual.
What's Andy's mobile again?
:shrug::getcoat:
Thank you for your very close attention to my post, Jagmad - I appreciate it!
Interestingly, Martina Navratilova is talking about Andy's loss on the BBC Sport website. She, like Mac puts Andy's loss down to mental tiredness after his run to the WTF. If two players who were at the very top of the game think that Andy is mentally tired I think they may have a point. They must have been in similar positions in their own careers which gives credence to their opinion in my view. Anyway, I feel I've said more than enough on this subject so I'm going to go and think about something else.
Thank you for your very close attention to my post, Jagmad - I appreciate it!
You're very welcome.
:flowers::hug:
Infact altogether now.
:grouphug:
Now I'm off to get extremely P..... on Merlot with our Chilli, as my Man flu is on the wane.
:wino::wino::wino: Three large glasses should do the trick.
Then watch the recording of Andy thrashing Joker in the WTF final to make me feel even better.:dance:
:laugh:
WimbledonWestie
23-01-2017, 18:52
Haven't seen the match but from what I've read I'd be inclined to support the mental exhaustion theory as it sounds like Andy decision making on how to deal with zverev wasn't as it should be. To me that suggests mental tiredness -making wrong decisions, not reacting quickly enough to situations or having the mental energy to rethink strategy. That and zverev playing a blinder which can happen- it's happened before eg Federer v stakhovsky, Nadal v Darcis. Law of averages suggests Andy was due a turn at falling victim.
Thank you for your very close attention to my post, Jagmad - I appreciate it!
Interestingly, Martina Navratilova is talking about Andy's loss on the BBC Sport website. She, like Mac puts Andy's loss down to mental tiredness after his run to the WTF. If two players who were at the very top of the game think that Andy is mentally tired I think they may have a point. They must have been in similar positions in their own careers which gives credence to their opinion in my view. Anyway, I feel I've said more than enough on this subject so I'm going to go and think about something else.
Interesting indeed Alis. Initially I didn't think tiredness of any sort came into it, not so sure now. Have just read through all today's posts and I have to say, some very interesting and valid points of view have been put forward. I don't necessarily agree with all of them and my head is spinning! I am not going to reopen any more arguments or say anything more (though there are a few things still puzzling me about the match) as I do feel this has run it's course and it is time to move on. We can't do anything to change the result of yesterday's match! I'm finding that Andy's loss still sucks a wee bit today, but it's so good to be able to come on here and read all the posts written by fellow dedicated Andy fans. At least everyone truly has Andy's interests at heart even if they differ in opinion as to why Andy lost yesterday. Thank you everyone.
You're very welcome.
:flowers::hug:
Infact altogether now.
:grouphug:
Now I'm off to get extremely P..... on Merlot with our Chilli, as my Man flu is on the wane.
:wino::wino::wino: Three large glasses should do the trick.
Then watch the recording of Andy thrashing Joker in the WTF final to make me feel even better.:dance:
:laugh:
Not up to the wine, but yes The thrashing of Djokovic at the WTF will be a standard pick me up, for me, long after he has hung his racquet up. The shy "What they're both for me?" look on his face as he squatted in front of the full on in your face trophies, is guaranteed to cheer me up.
Interesting indeed Alis. Initially I didn't think tiredness of any sort came into it, not so sure now. Have just read through all today's posts and I have to say, some very interesting and valid points of view have been put forward. I don't necessarily agree with all of them and my head is spinning! I am not going to reopen any more arguments or say anything more (though there are a few things still puzzling me about the match) as I do feel this has run it's course and it is time to move on. Nothing is going to change. I'm finding that Andy's loss still sucks a wee bit today, but it's so good to be able to come on here and read all the posts written by fellow dedicated Andy fans. At least everyone truly has Andy's interests at heart even if they differ in opinion as to why Andy lost yesterday. Thank you everyone.
Andy is most probably the only one able to answer that with any certainty. And I couldn't agree more as I said they're just opinions what ever it is/was I just like everyone else on here
just want it to happen as little as possible. It's positive criticism with the only personal part being anyone's feeling/thoughts. It's not aimed personally at anyone even if it's in the form of a reply.
Not even Martina or Macca's opinions.
It's all as I said a Haynes manual to help fix things, (including sorting things before they happen, Preventative measures.)
You say nothing is going to change? I really hope it does in a good way.
Oh how I hope someone points one of Andy's team to this.
As I have always said "Don't go complaining about your payment to anyone else but the one who holds the cheque book.
If you do you're just b%*$&ing. Mind you it's amazing how many do. It's no good consulting said Haynes manual for a mini when you've got a broken Rolls Royce.
:knight:
By saying 'nothing is going to change', what I really meant was no matter how much we talk about and analyse yesterday's match, it won't change the result! I wasn't referring to the future but to the status quo. That's the trouble with posting (and text messaging too!), words are open to different interpretations!
Not up to the wine, but yes The thrashing of Djokovic at the WTF will be a standard pick me up, for me, long after he has hung his racquet up. The shy "What they're both for me?" look on his face as he squatted in front of the full on in your face trophies, is guaranteed to cheer me up.
I know it was great wasn't it?
Long live/play/reign Sir Andy.:sirandy::knight:
Now where's that :wino:
To Sir Andy :cheers: everyone.
What a guy.
By saying 'nothing is going to change', what I really meant was no matter how much we talk about and analyse yesterday's match, it won't change the result! I wasn't referring to the future but to the status quo. That's the trouble with posting (and text messaging too!), words are open to different interpretations!
No problems my fellow Murray lover.
WOW this wines really good.:wino:
I'd completely forgotten I was :ill:
:rolling:
No problems my fellow Murray lover.
WOW this wines really good.:wino:
I'd completely forgotten I was :ill:
:rolling:
Have one for me too! Cheers!
Have one for me too! Cheers!
Just the one?
david1610
24-01-2017, 00:03
A couple of thoughts:
I committed the cardinal sin of looking past this match to the next one, the Ken or Roger match. Was I the only one? Doubt it and just maybe Andy assumed that his passing shots and lobs are of enough quality to see off an opponent coming to the net. By the time of the middle of the third set, Andy started to look somewhat bereft of ideas.
He was not that negative about his own performance afterwards. Just maybe this was one opponent who came up on the blind side and was not given the tactical respect he should have been. At least it won't happen again (with him).
I expect Roger to beat him something like 6-4 6-2 6-3 i.e. easily. Federer's success has been built on his serving and not outright power serving like Milos but placement of serve. He will work out where to put the ball and also come to the net enough to take away some of the initiative. I do not write this as a fan of Roger, but looking at his strengths and how he will know how to deal with Mischa, who, now, does not have the element of surprise against a higher ranked player.
Unfortunately for Mischa, I do not feel this automatically means considerable success for him - this was a fast court (would love a guide to the fast courts on the ATP circuit btw!) with an element of surprise and exceptional play.
I seem to have a thing about Andy serving 3/4 serves out wide, but I kept wishing he were doing that during the match. Not to get aces but to get his opponent out of position or, rather, in a position where he could not then charge the next.
During the match, I simply could not work out how Andy could serve at 70% of first serves and still get broken so many times. How?
Understandable and regrettable, but the stat on Stan's Wikipedia page bears repeating - only he and Agassi have won more than one GS aged 30 or over. That is a bit of a sobering thought. This was a real chance for a GS win, particularly following Nole's exit.
So reinforce even more strongly one match at a time, come up with a game plan for this kind of opponent and prepare even more. Because there was a clear difference in Andy's ability between round 1 and 4, and rounds 2 and 3.
As usual I'm a little late commenting on this but have now read all the posts.
Love that you all have so many viewpoints, just shows how much we all love Andy.
I tend to go with the emotional exhaustion as Andy couldn't seem to think his way out of this one.
I do think that maybe he doesn't "worry" as much about the lower ranked players as he should do. He seems to struggle more than he should against them. I wonder how much preparation/studying of their recent matches is done, especially with the lower ranked players. Mischa had been playing better recently and there was talk of this so I can't believe Andy wasn't prepared. Just think that his mind wasn't able to keep up with the whirlwind.
I'm disappointed that Andy didn't win this but not as much as I usually would be. I feel more relaxed since he reached #1 and I just want him to continue playing as long as he enjoys it.
RosieBear
24-01-2017, 04:57
During the match, I simply could not work out how Andy could serve at 70% of first serves and still get broken so many times. How?
Andy slowed down his serve considerably in order to keep his fsp high. When Mischa faced a true Andy first serve he struggled to return it, but many of the serves that were categorised as first serves were not full speed.
themass15
24-01-2017, 05:41
I feel sad about the loss now at the early hour of this morning as seeing Stan break back JWT immediately makes me think this AO could be his.
HoopGirl
24-01-2017, 07:43
Like you Themass I still feel really sad.
I feel sad about the loss now at the early hour of this morning as seeing Stan break back JWT immediately makes me think this AO could be his.
Well he's got to get through Fed first, and Fed's just finished in less than an hour and a half.. I can't say I want either to win the title, anyone in the bottom half would be better.
It was a tough loss for Andy and his supporters, but I hope he is able to easily put it behind him. The positives are that with djoko out early, this loss won't change the ranking. So he will go into the second major of the year as 1. It comes after a long end to last season and a short rest, so it's not unheard of for players not to find their best. He certainly will have an opportunity to win this title in the future. Going out early will give him a chance to get home,spend time with his family and rest up and come back strong in Dubai. I'm just hoping for the title for Raffa now, he's struggled the past few years and it could really help to bring him back.
themass15
24-01-2017, 18:39
It was a tough loss for Andy and his supporters, but I hope he is able to easily put it behind him. The positives are that with djoko out early, this loss won't change the ranking. So he will go into the second major of the year as 1. It comes after a long end to last season and a short rest, so it's not unheard of for players not to find their best. He certainly will have an opportunity to win this title in the future. Going out early will give him a chance to get home,spend time with his family and rest up and come back strong in Dubai. I'm just hoping for the title for Raffa now, he's struggled the past few years and it could really help to bring him back.
I am with you there JerryD. Just hope Rafa can go on to win it.
If I hear one more report of Andy Murray's shock exit from the AO, meanwhile not a murmur about Djokovic whose exit was To a player ranked 117, I am going to do something unspeakable to somebody.
It was disappointing, and flipping irritating, but it wasn't shocking. To me it was obvious it was on the cards, and I am as far from being a prophet as it's possible to be - that's why I don't bother with FTM - I would end up looking like a complete dingbat. I think that match against Djokovic in the final took everything he had. There was inevitably going to be payback.
Gr, gr,gr,gr,gr,gr..............
LC the fan
24-01-2017, 19:31
The most frustrating thing of all was to watch Zverev play against Roger. He was nowhere near the player that he was on sunday. Perhaps he was mentally whacked after the efforts of Sunday but I was so cross with him The energy he put into playing Andy - so many people say "just shows how badly Andy played" but that really wasn't the case - Mischa just played out of his skin.
OK Andy's serve was perhaps not what it should be but, reading the stats, he didn't play a bad game but just could not work out how to stop the tornado at the other end of the court. We all believed he couldn't keep it up - unfortunately the energy lapse came playing Saint Fed.
Aah well.....I wonder if tennis is going back 10 years with a Fed and Rafa final - and perhaps-s the Williams sister duo ?
LC the fan
24-01-2017, 19:35
If I hear one more report of Andy Murray's shock exit from the AO, meanwhile not a murmur about Djokovic whose exit was To a player ranked 117, I am going to do something unspeakable to somebody.
It was disappointing, and flipping irritating, but it wasn't shocking. To me it was obvious it was on the cards, and I am as far from being a prophet as it's possible to be - that's why I don't bother with FTM - I would end up looking like a complete dingbat. I think that match against Djokovic in the final took everything he had. There was inevitably going to be payback.
Gr, gr,gr,gr,gr,gr..............
I must say you said it from the start and, although I hoped you were wrong, I could see where your thoughts were but believed Andy would come through....sadly you were right. I think the end of last year - all those matches and finals, the O2 and being knighted brought just too much pressure.
But Andy is Andy and we will see the magic again soon
I must say you said it from the start and, although I hoped you were wrong, I could see where your thoughts were but believed Andy would come through....sadly you were right. I think the end of last year - all those matches and finals, the O2 and being knighted brought just too much pressure.
But Andy is Andy and we will see the magic again soon
Of that I have no doubt.
It gave me zero pleasure to be right. I would far rather have been completely wrong. I am as royally ****** off about it as any one else. Equally however I would rather he had No 1, even at the expense of another GS. He is far too a talented player not to have reached NO 1. Many are called, but few are chosen on that one.
banskogirl
24-01-2017, 20:42
As I said on twitter earlier, I now think there are 3 Zverev brothers, Mischa, Alexander and the one who played Andy!
He was a different person from the one who turned up to play Fed, yes I know he had a few minutes of greatness but they were rare and even the commentators seemed shocked with who turned up today. Also they said in his interview before the match he said as much as he didn't expect to win and didn't have a game plan. I know Andy's serve let him down but Mischa didn't give an inch.....
............... and, on his own admission, had a lot of luck!
A couple of thoughts:
I committed the cardinal sin of looking past this match to the next one, the Ken or Roger match. Was I the only one? Doubt it and just maybe Andy assumed that his passing shots and lobs are of enough quality to see off an opponent coming to the net. By the time of the middle of the third set, Andy started to look somewhat bereft of ideas.
He was not that negative about his own performance afterwards. Just maybe this was one opponent who came up on the blind side and was not given the tactical respect he should have been. At least it won't happen again (with him).
I expect Roger to beat him something like 6-4 6-2 6-3 i.e. easily. Federer's success has been built on his serving and not outright power serving like Milos but placement of serve. He will work out where to put the ball and also come to the net enough to take away some of the initiative. I do not write this as a fan of Roger, but looking at his strengths and how he will know how to deal with Mischa, who, now, does not have the element of surprise against a higher ranked player.
Unfortunately for Mischa, I do not feel this automatically means considerable success for him - this was a fast court (would love a guide to the fast courts on the ATP circuit btw!) with an element of surprise and exceptional play.
I seem to have a thing about Andy serving 3/4 serves out wide, but I kept wishing he were doing that during the match. Not to get aces but to get his opponent out of position or, rather, in a position where he could not then charge the next.
During the match, I simply could not work out how Andy could serve at 70% of first serves and still get broken so many times. How?
Understandable and regrettable, but the stat on Stan's Wikipedia page bears repeating - only he and Agassi have won more than one GS aged 30 or over. That is a bit of a sobering thought. This was a real chance for a GS win, particularly following Nole's exit.
So reinforce even more strongly one match at a time, come up with a game plan for this kind of opponent and prepare even more. Because there was a clear difference in Andy's ability between round 1 and 4, and rounds 2 and 3.
Are you listening team Sir Andy Murray?
Exhaustion mental or other was not the main factor in this defeat.imho
I for one have seen Muzza look up to his mum in a DC match and say/mouth
"I'm so tired" and still win. I keep saying WTF final? Was he running on pure adrenaline?
Only Andy knows the absolute truth and all our opinions are just that.
Even Ex tennis greats. Even if Andy doesn't change his mind and join the DC team it doesn't
prove anything.
What is the most important is what ever is/was the problem it isn't over looked by the only
person who can do anything about it ultimately!
That's you Andy along with all your team, of which we AMFF's like to think we are a small part.
That's why we post our opinions and feelings.
It's because we care.
:bravo::GBflag::thanks::knight:
Nope - I still disagree. Andy Murray knows full well how to work M Zverev out he has done it successfully and without any real fuss thrice before. I don't think it was lack of preparation. I think the adrenaline rush needed to beat Djokovic at the WTF not merely took everything he had, but put him into major league overdraft. Realistically - just how many of us predicted the outcome of that final to be what it was? By all the laws he should have been Djokovic's for the taking after those marathon matches against Raonic and Nishikori. Sure as heck not me.
I think saying that Andy Murray and his team didn't prepare for that match or assumed that it was going to be a piece of ****, is to run contrary to everything we know of the man. I think it does him and his team a great disservice, and is a bit insulting (:-)).
I predicted he would go out early simply because by my very concrete logic, that tear to the World Tour Finals had to have cost him dearly. I have rubbish coordination, when I am physically and mentally exhausted that rubbish coordination becomes far, far worse. I appreciate we are talking a high level supremely fit sportsman here, but upscale it, and I think you have an Andy Murray who lost that one or two percent, that differentiates the truly great sportsmen/women from the mere great.
I don't think the knighthood had anything to do with it either. That was a thing of great joy to him - a self validation of what his country actually thinks of him, on par with being chosen to be flagbearer at Rio.
Finally and even if RB accuses me of being patronising, (which I am not), we need to be prepared for the fact that our man is 30 this year. He has a body that has been brutalised since he was a teenager, his game style is based on wars of attrition. At some point in the not too distant future I think his body is going to start to fail him more and more often. If he is still playing at this level after the age of 32 I for one will be very, very surprised. Anyone who is expecting him to go on as long as a Federer is, I think going to be sadly disappointed. Federer doesn't have his knee or back problems.
I shall now duck...........
RosieBear
25-01-2017, 09:43
Finally and even if RB accuses me of being patronising, (which I am not), we need to be prepared for the fact that our man is 30 this year. He has a body that has been brutalised since he was a teenager, his game style is based on wars of attrition. At some point in the not too distant future I think his body is going to start to fail him more and more often. If he is still playing at this level after the age of 32 I for one will be very, very surprised. Anyone who is expecting him to go on as long as a Federer is, I think going to be sadly disappointed. Federer doesn't have his knee or back problems.
I shall now duck...........
Andy's on record several times as saying that he aims to play until his mid thirties. When he got married he explained that players used to wait until they retired but are now playing longer, into their mid 30s, as he planned to do. When he became a father he talked about playing into his mid to late 30s so his child can remember watching him. Obviously there are no guarantees, but Andy has been explicit about his plans and I definitely think he is the best person to judge how his body will cope and his career longevity.
I just keep my fingers x'd he remains fit and healthy as *any* player is only ever an injury away.....:peace:
I think you are both right Teresa and RosieBear. I do believe that, as Teresa suggests, on another day and in different circumstances, Andy would have taken Mischa to the cleaners with no problem and there would have been none of the soul searching about Andy's style of play, I also think that Rosie's theory is correct in that as long as his body holds up, Andy will continue to play singles for as long as he can. It's interesting that, if Nadal wins the match being played at the moment which seems highly likely, then six out of eight of the singles semi finalists will be in their thirties - and well into their thirties. That may well be a result of the conditions in Oz this year with both the courts and the balls being faster than usual - I don't know. My guess is that we will probably not see that replicated for the remainder of the year - unless, of course, tournament directors decide to play into Rogie's hands which is entirely possible!! ;)
Rafa has just beaten Milos, so there are six 'geriatric' players in the semis!!
themass15
25-01-2017, 12:11
I think you are both right Teresa and RosieBear. I do believe that, as Teresa suggests, on another day and in different circumstances, Andy would have taken Mischa to the cleaners with no problem and there would have been none of the soul searching about Andy's style of play, I also think that Rosie's theory is correct in that as long as his body holds up, Andy will continue to play singles for as long as he can. It's interesting that, if Nadal wins the match being played at the moment which seems highly likely, then six out of eight of the singles semi finalists will be in their thirties - and well into their thirties. That may well be a result of the conditions in Oz this year with both the courts and the balls being faster than usual - I don't know. My guess is that we will probably not see that replicated for the remainder of the year - unless, of course, tournament directors decide to play into Rogie's hands which is entirely possible!! ;)
Rafa has just beaten Milos, so there are six 'geriatric' players in the semis!!
Alis by what I heard they are considering playing faster courts in other tournaments so that could make a difference to results during the year. Wonder if they will do it at Wimbledon?
HoopGirl
25-01-2017, 13:40
Let's hope that Andy does continue playing well into his thirties- and that his body keeps strong.
One way of ensuring that would be to incorporate a game that is easier in the body yet challenges others as we have discussed here and was played by Zverev in his game against Andy.
Reducing the length of rallies would help his tennis longevity a lot I feel.
I think you are both right Teresa and RosieBear. I do believe that, as Teresa suggests, on another day and in different circumstances, Andy would have taken Mischa to the cleaners with no problem and there would have been none of the soul searching about Andy's style of play, I also think that Rosie's theory is correct in that as long as his body holds up, Andy will continue to play singles for as long as he can. It's interesting that, if Nadal wins the match being played at the moment which seems highly likely, then six out of eight of the singles semi finalists will be in their thirties - and well into their thirties. That may well be a result of the conditions in Oz this year with both the courts and the balls being faster than usual - I don't know. My guess is that we will probably not see that replicated for the remainder of the year - unless, of course, tournament directors decide to play into Rogie's hands which is entirely possible!! ;)
Rafa has just beaten Milos, so there are six 'geriatric' players in the semis!!
Six players in the semis??? Everything else you say makes good sense and I would certainly agree with you.
Nope - I still disagree. Andy Murray knows full well how to work M Zverev out he has done it successfully and without any real fuss thrice before. I don't think it was lack of preparation........
Agree! And I can't for one minute believe that there was lack of preparation in the Murray team. Just doesn't fit. Jamie D normally watches many videos of the opposition and Mischa's style of play is well known.
Josephine
25-01-2017, 13:57
Mens and womens I think?
Mens and womens I think?
:lightbulb:
Yes, sorry, I should have been more specific. Six out of eight of the semi finalists in the men's and women's draws will be over thirty.
Alis by what I heard they are considering playing faster courts in other tournaments so that could make a difference to results during the year. Wonder if they will do it at Wimbledon?
Really? I hadn't heard that. I think it would make tennis a lot more interesting if they did vary the speed of the courts.
themass15
25-01-2017, 14:56
I think it would be hard for Andy and Novak than some of the other guys.
banskogirl
25-01-2017, 18:13
Must just say I think we have to remember all the commies on the day really thought Zverev played lights out tennis. A one off maybe but that doesn't make it any easier to beat!
Andy's serve let him down a bit and maybe if he had been slightly more rested that wouldn't have happened, I know he has said before that his serve is the first thing that goes when he's tired but hindsight is a wonderful thing.
I am finding it hard to get over my disappointment, I really thought Andy would do the career slam this year, but that's my problem, not Andy's!
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