View Full Version : ITALIAN OPEN 2017, R2: Andy v. Fabio Fognini - Tuesday 8pm BST
Andy plays old clay foe Fabio-o-o last up on Centre tomorrow.
The Very Best of Luck Andy!!!:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
Mmmm - very nervous about this one. Go Andy!
Mmmm - very nervous about this one. Go Andy!
You and me both. Not convinced he is going to get through this one.
sir coolerking
16-05-2017, 07:27
If he plays like he did against Coric then he doesn't have a prayer......let's hope a different Andy turns up.
RosieBear
16-05-2017, 08:05
I echo S. Coolerking. Fabio-o-o in Rome is going to be so tough, can't bear the thought of watching him batter a subpar Andy. C'mon Andy lad, time to find your game, you can do it.:cheer:...... GOOD LUCK ANDY :peace::peace::peace:
....... I miss the days when I looked forward to Andy's matches with excitement rather than nerves :-/
supergran
16-05-2017, 08:32
Definitely a tough one. Fabio in Rome and if Andy is slightly under par........:nailbiter::nailbiter: Like others looking forward nervously. Come on Andy! Go Champ!!!:knight::knight:
Come on Andy! You can do this!! Play well and win :boogie:
This is a tournament that Fabio has not done well at, so I believe this is winnable for Andy.
This is a tournament that Fabio has not done well at, so I believe this is winnable for Andy.
Definitely! Always believe!!
angiebabez
16-05-2017, 13:10
Andy in 2 for me. Got a good feeling about this.
Andy in 2 for me. Got a good feeling about this.
So glad you have - really hope you're right!
All the very best of luck, Andy :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
banskogirl
16-05-2017, 16:37
Looking forward to this :) Andy, Fabio and Roma!
If Andy has not been at his best I'm putting it down to the shingles. Have been asking a lot of people and most think it could still make you lethargic this much later, at the extreme end of tennis!
Hoping the extra sugar in that cake yesterday will help!! Go Andy :clap:
RosieBear
16-05-2017, 16:48
Looking forward to this :) Andy, Fabio and Roma!
If Andy has not been at his best I'm putting it down to the shingles. Have been asking a lot of people and most think it could still make you lethargic this much later, at the extreme end of tennis!
Hoping the extra sugar in that cake yesterday will help!! Go Andy :clap:
I've heard the same BG - shingles can really linger.... I do wonder if the remnants are still in his system, even the smallest thing can make a difference to an elite athlete, and tbh lethargy is the word that springs to mind when I've been watching Andy recently.....he's looked short on physical energy and ideas, which is just not like him.
But whatever the underlying issues, come on Andy, draw on yesterday's sugar boost and the deep, unwavering love of your fans and bring your amazing tennis back to life! Starting TONIGHT! :cheer::cheer::cheer:
banskogirl
16-05-2017, 17:01
I've heard the same BG - shingles can really linger.... I do wonder if the remnants are still in his system, even the smallest thing can make a difference to an elite athlete, and tbh lethargy is the word that springs to mind when I've been watching Andy recently.....he's looked short on physical energy and ideas, which is just not like him.
But whatever the underlying issues, come on Andy, draw on yesterday's sugar boost and the deep, unwavering love of your fans and bring your amazing tennis back to life! Starting TONIGHT! :cheer::cheer::cheer:
Yes and I think it's hard when we are watching a match, if Andy begins with energy, to understand why all of a sudden he's losing.
Yes definitely behind him all the way, as always :)
I've heard the same BG - shingles can really linger.... I do wonder if the remnants are still in his system, even the smallest thing can make a difference to an elite athlete, and tbh lethargy is the word that springs to mind when I've been watching Andy recently.....he's looked short on physical energy and ideas, which is just not like him.
But whatever the underlying issues, come on Andy, draw on yesterday's sugar boost and the deep, unwavering love of your fans and bring your amazing tennis back to life! Starting TONIGHT! :cheer::cheer::cheer:
Exactly right folks!:thumbup:
Josephine
16-05-2017, 17:19
Good luck Andy! Thing he may need it!;)
Yes and I think it's hard when we are watching a match, if Andy begins with energy, to understand why all of a sudden he's losing.
Yes definitely behind him all the way, as always :)
Crunch line!!
lovetennis
16-05-2017, 17:40
Don't think I've ever been so nervous before an Andy match before! I so want him to do well and we all know Fabio can be awful to play, but just really hoping Andy can show what he's made of and put in a fab performance. Agree with RB & BG, shingles stays in the body and can have a lingering effect. So unlucky he contracted it but what can you do, just got to deal with it. Anyway go go go Andy, will be cheering you on from the sofa :knight:
Having had shingles twice, I have felt for Andy struggling with it's after-effects. I recall feeling quite energetic first thing and then suddenly exhausted for no apparent reason. Andy is carrying on with his schedule to the best of his (current) ability and probably wondering what the hell is the matter with him; I know I did and I wasn't doing anything! Foggy does blow hot and cold so really think Andy can win this.
supergran
16-05-2017, 18:52
I hope he's feeling OK. COME ON ANDY!!!!!!
Ma sha retires injured Andy up soon
home just in time ... GO ANDY !!!!
Andy doing some warm-up exercises in a corridor
lovetennis
16-05-2017, 19:43
Great shots of Andy warming up behind the scenes on the TennisTv feed
Come on Andeeeeeeee!!!!!!
My guts are churning already.......
lovetennis
16-05-2017, 19:51
Disgraceful reception for Andy from the crowd, whistling! I know he's playing an Italian, but blooming heck show some sportsmanship.
RosieBear
16-05-2017, 19:51
Cheeky crowd booing Andy. Make them pay Andy! Let's go, you CAN do this :cheer:
Andy wins the toss and elects to serve.
That was weird. Doesn't the lower ranking player normally get introduced first? :confused:
lovetennis
16-05-2017, 19:55
That was weird. Doesn't the lower ranking player normally get introduced first? :confused:
Yes I thought that too. Definitely some home advantage being played here.
Mandiemoo
16-05-2017, 19:58
At last! Been waiting for this. Hoping to kick start the season here!
Cmon Muzz!
lovetennis
16-05-2017, 19:58
Right cmon Andy, show us all what you can do. We're right behind you :jitterbug::jitterbug:
Disgraceful reception for Andy from the crowd, whistling! I know he's playing an Italian, but blooming heck show some sportsmanship.
That sort of reception usually fires Andy up .................... c'mon Champ!!
Is anyone watching on a livestream please? Can't seem to get my usual Cricfree working!! :sad:
lovetennis
16-05-2017, 20:03
Fab serve to save the BP
Come on Andy settle down!
Mandiemoo
16-05-2017, 20:05
Oh my days, Andy needs to stamp his authority on this, Foggy is a streaky player.
Cmon Muzz!
Oh dear - not the start we wanted folks.
Just said a very rude word:-(
Early days which probably means a late night. 0-1
Sounds like a Davis Cup match.
RosieBear
16-05-2017, 20:07
Not great start but long way to go....Foggy will take it on given half a chance...will be interesting to see if Andy can up his aggression. Come on Andy, it's who wins the last game that matters, believe, achieve.:cheer:
Looks like Foggy has come out to play tonight but there's a long way to go.
Is anyone watching on a livestream please? Can't seem to get my usual Cricfree working!! :sad:
http://live.robinwidget.org/streamvideo8/murray-vs-fognini-atp-rome-live-stream-906512.html
its italian Jennie
Mandiemoo
16-05-2017, 20:11
Foggy holds, playing well. Hope he will burn himself out quickly.
Cmon Muzz!
Sounds like a Davis Cup match.
Not with the sames result as in Naples hopefully.
Not with the sames result as in Naples hopefully.
Hope not but here's Foggy with another break point.
Why am I watching this? :sofa:
Why am I watching this? :sofa:
Not sure ............ because you're a masochist maybe?
.............. and Andy goes two breaks down. :facepalm:
RosieBear
16-05-2017, 20:17
Uh oh. Fog's doing the gunning, Andy's doing the running.:sad:
When Fognini is on he can take the game from anyone. He's done it several times to Nadal. It doesn't help when Andy's won 1 out of 8 2nd serves. 0-3
I apologise Alis - starting with Fognini was indeed a dire draw.
How long can Foggy keep this up, I wonder?
We just have to weather this horrible storm 0-3
lovetennis
16-05-2017, 20:18
Oh dear, this is hard. Cmon Andy, got to keep plugging away.
Mandiemoo
16-05-2017, 20:19
Blimey, wondering if Im an unlucky charm tonight...
Cmon Muzz!
Somebody tell Fognini, Flavia's gone into labour. :p 0-4
Mandiemoo
16-05-2017, 20:22
Mamma mia!
Cmon Muzz!
lovetennis
16-05-2017, 20:23
Andy seems to start his service games ok, then tails off. Let's hope this one sees him finish the game off
On the board, small steps. 1-4
Halleluiah - Andy's on the board!
Andy telling the intrusive cameraman "give me a little bit of space please" at the changeover. Polite Andy.
We all know Andy is not 100% fit but on this showing I'm beside myself with worry for him.
Bp - c'monnnnn Andeeee!!!
Fognini saves BP & holds. 1-5
roytennisfan
16-05-2017, 20:30
1-5 This is just not the real Andy, can't see any way back here, wish I felt more optimistic
JAMES4578
16-05-2017, 20:30
Take it this set gone with Fognini up 5-1, Italian playing well but Andy needs to step up!
Pity. Just hold serve, Andy, and try again.
Andy just not looking himself at all There is clearly something wrong with him at the moment
RosieBear
16-05-2017, 20:30
No break but better from Andy, more on his shots :thumbup:
Eek I need the :sofa: already.
Come on Andy!
He just doesn't seem to have the strength - or the confidence - to hammer home any slight advantage he gets.
Fognini is launching himself at everything and more than not it pays off. This tennis would trouble anyone. Different situation from the Coric match. 2-5
scrapaddict
16-05-2017, 20:34
Andy just looks defeated - not fighting like he can
I agree - Foggy is in the zone at the moment. Even Rafa would find this difficult to live with. Can he keep it up though?
WimbledonWestie
16-05-2017, 20:35
Foggy on fire, someone douse him!
Fognini belts a FH winner and holds to love for the set. 2-6
You have to say that was a brilliant set from Fognini.
RosieBear
16-05-2017, 20:40
I totally agree can't compare Fog and Coric situations. Knew Fog would strut around Foro Italico like a prize peacock and on his day can trouble anyone....but particularly feared for Andy due to recent form, because at his best it would be a close contest, not the beatdown we've seen so far.
But fingers tightly crossed Andy can up his game and fight back. Let's go!
lovetennis
16-05-2017, 20:40
C'mon Andy get a good start in the 2nd pleassssseeeee
If Andy does lose this match - and that isn't a given - I really hope he decides to skip the French and gives himself a break before preparing for the grass.
Andy's moonballs catching Fognini out. Hold to love. 1-0
lovetennis
16-05-2017, 20:43
If Andy does lose this match - and that isn't a given - I really hope he decides to skip the French and gives himself a break before preparing for the grass.
He'd be in good company if he did ;)
themass15
16-05-2017, 20:45
Not watching but score does not make good reading
Fogg's losing his temper a little.
If Andy does lose this match - and that isn't a given - I really hope he decides to skip the French and gives himself a break before preparing for the grass.
I so agree. We all saw what he worked hard to achieve on clay last year but something is affecting his game badly right now and he needs to try everything to get it sorted before the grass season for his sake and ours! I'm starting to feel angry not at him but with the people around him.
That last BH was like the Coric match. 1-2
scrapaddict
16-05-2017, 20:53
Andy just seems so emotionally flat - not even talking to himself!!
roytennisfan
16-05-2017, 20:55
Sorry folks, no way back here unless fognini snaps
supergran
16-05-2017, 20:55
Come ONNNN ANDY. Think plan D is needed.
Isn't RG compulsory? Anyway Andy seems to have lost the clay mojo that he found last year. He's not crafting his points/creating angles.
The only consoling thing is that he is currently 3350 points ahead of Djokovic in the live rankings. Djokovic has got to win this and The French to overtake him, and neither are going to happen.
The only consoling thing is that he is currently 3350 points ahead of Djokovic in the live rankings. Djokovic has got to win this and The French to overtake him, and neither are going to happen.
:cauldron:
lovetennis
16-05-2017, 20:57
Isn't RG compulsory?
Not if you're Federer
Andy's backhand is missing in action I'm afraid.
supergran
16-05-2017, 20:58
Isn't RG compulsory? Anyway Andy seems to have lost the clay mojo that he found last year. He's not crafting his points/creating angles.
So in agreement. Am finding it very strange.
Come on Andy, make tennis fun again. 1-3
If Andy could just hold and then break Foggy could lose the rag a little - clutching at straws here people.
When have you ever seen Andy not run for a drop shot? There's something far wrong with our boy.
I could weep for him, in fact I am. This is not Andy Murray playing.
not holding out much hope here :(
Hes in a slump for sure , happens to the best of them
supergran
16-05-2017, 21:02
Fantastic clay court tennis from flipping Fabio. COME ONNNN CHAMP!
Has to be said Fognini is playing lights out tennis but Andy is very flat.
lovetennis
16-05-2017, 21:02
When have you ever seen Andy not run for a drop shot? There's something far wrong with our boy.
Yes, indeed. Not ok
When have you ever seen Andy not run for a drop shot? There's something far wrong with our boy.
Was just going to post the same!
I am afraid I have stopped and deleted my recording. Fognini can't miss. I shudder to thing what this will do to his confidence. Poor lamb,
The struggle on serve is very real. 1-4
themass15
16-05-2017, 21:04
What is happening to Andy. So sad
Is this still the shingles? He is so not himself.
scrapaddict
16-05-2017, 21:04
So depressing but more so for Andy!!
Last year I would still have believed Andy could win but this year, I fear this is curtains :crying:
patmoren
16-05-2017, 21:05
Andy is lacking energy for some reason, might be a hangover from the infections he has had but at the moment he is a shadow of his former self. I can't bear to watch to watch anymore of it.
I could weep for him, in fact I am. This is not Andy Murray playing.
I know it's easy to be wise with hindsight but I really feel it would have been better for Andy to do a Fed and skip the clay court season altogether.
lovetennis
16-05-2017, 21:06
He looks a bit lost at the changeover, I'm heartbroken for him
The thing that worries me , is when the other guys see Andy losing matches like this to players far below him , they will all come out against him guns blazing , and confident that they can beat him , which isnt good
#1 should have an aura of superiority about them , which Andy doesnt have at the moment :(
Another dropshot not run down. 30-30
LC the fan
16-05-2017, 21:07
Just can't bear to watch any more..off to bed
That point was better and brings up a bp.
That's two drop shots in this game that Andy hasn't run for.
Fognini saves a BP & holds. 1-5
lovetennis
16-05-2017, 21:10
And another dropper left, on BP too
Andy can't just choose not to play the clay court season unless he's injured.
I thought that Fabio, if on form, could win, but I expected a competitive match :crying: :confused:
gardengnomie
16-05-2017, 21:12
is this the first match in about 120 where he won't have broken?
Bit of a shame the streak got broken in such a tame way...
I could weep for him, in fact I am. This is not Andy Murray playing.
I feel for him, but am not weeping for him. There is something wrong. This is not a healthy Andy Murray playing. He needs to work out what is wrong and do something about it. It's not his tennis, but his body.
I thought after the World Tour finals that if he never won another match it would be ok. He will get it sorted or retire it's as simple as that.
dewster99
16-05-2017, 21:12
Thought he would lose but this is woeful
lovetennis
16-05-2017, 21:13
Andy can't just choose not to play the clay court season unless he's injured.
Will post-viral fatigue count?
Andy can't just choose not to play the clay court season unless he's injured.
.................. but he was injured and who says he didn't come back too quickly? He wasn't sure he was going to play Monte Carlo until the day before. Nobody forced him to come back.
JAMES4578
16-05-2017, 21:15
Andy hadn't exactly played a ton of matches with the early loss in IW and Miami pull out anyway even if Monte Carlo was debateable, the last few years had been pretty successful on clay. Fognini very much in the zone but frustrating Andy not in better form and looking like a heavy defeat.
I feel for him, but am not weeping for him. There is something wrong. This is not a healthy Andy Murray playing. He needs to work out what is wrong and do something about it. It's not his tennis, but his body.
I thought after the World Tour finals that if he never won another match it would be ok. He will get it sorted or retire it's as simple as that.
I'm absolutely sure he will sort it out, Teresa.
Maybe it IS post viral fatigue.......
I'm not as frequent a visitor as the rest of you.... has anybody said he looks subdued? There's none of the Murray fire we're all accustomed to seeing....????
lovetennis
16-05-2017, 21:20
I'm not as frequent a visitor as the rest of you.... has anybody said he looks subdued? There's none of the Murray fire we're all accustomed to seeing....????
Unfortunately not, very flat
The break sequence continues. 3-5
If nothing else, Andy holds onto his record of breaking in every match!
is this the first match in about 120 where he won't have broken?
Bit of a shame the streak got broken in such a tame way...
He heard you!
david1610
16-05-2017, 21:22
Comeback starts here! :)
gardengnomie
16-05-2017, 21:22
the streak continues!!!!!!!!!!!!!! aah, I'm smiling now!!!!!!!!!
so look on the bright side everyone :)
supergran
16-05-2017, 21:24
Come onnnn andyyyyy
Maybe it IS post viral fatigue.......
It has to be something like that. I wonder if he has been fighting it, without realising that you can't. You just have to let it run its course.
"Can't move, cannot move" bellows Andy. Deuce
Was that what it was? Poor Andy - he relies so much on his movement.
................... now if Andy could just break again - who knows?
lovetennis
16-05-2017, 21:28
Can safely say Foggy has worked out Andy is not running in to collect the droppers
Ross Hutchins in the crowd as well as Andy's Dad.
david1610
16-05-2017, 21:28
comeback continues...
Wish the commies would shut up.
C'monnn Andy - Foggy's bound to be nervous.
lovetennis
16-05-2017, 21:31
Wish the commies would shut up.
So glad I'm watching this on the non-commentary TEnnisTv feed.
Thing is F is playing drop shots from ridiculous places and not missing.
:crying: :crying: :crying:
He brings out the best in everyone He's become the hunted
....they are all hunting him down
He looks like a wounded animal :sad:
roytennisfan
16-05-2017, 21:32
Well the agony is over. Andy needs timeout
shame , not much more to say really , Andy looks like a shadow of himself :(
RosieBear
16-05-2017, 21:33
Ouch. Not the result we wanted, but the one expected. When Andy's fit and healthy I'll take any draw, don't fear anyone for him, but right now I fear everyone for him. Feel extremely sad, but peaks and troughs as they say, and brighter times WILL return when he's ready. Love you Andy.
Well, well done Foggy - he deserves his moment of glory. There will be more moments of glory to come for Andy I'm sure.
Andy 5-6 since winning Dubai. :sad:
david1610
16-05-2017, 21:33
Could well be. I wonder if he has been fighting it, without realising that you can't. You just have to let it run its course.
Certainly needs to get a proper diagnosis if it is anything like that. I got shingles after finishing a teaching practice and I think it was my body just telling me that it was not putting up with any more weeks like that!
gardengnomie
16-05-2017, 21:34
It was very odd, wasn't it? Not even slightly bothering to run for drop shots? Not at all like Andy?
Does make you wonder if he wasn't 100% in some way. Oh well. Suppose it gives him time to have a late birthday party with the family....
My heart goes out to Andy...how must he be feeling:sad:
I've never seen him being mugged by so many dropshots, yet didn't see him playing one himself...... Something's up....wish him well.
david1610
16-05-2017, 21:37
I suspect a lot of people might have been feeling like me, i.e. that "it is the clay courts and once we are on grass, everything will be alright." Not so sure now.
JAMES4578
16-05-2017, 21:37
At least the score a bit more respectable in the 2nd though Fabio got a bit tight, as well as Fognini played though Andy not looking great right now for whatever reason.
goldfish
16-05-2017, 21:37
I blame Flavia - should definitely have gone into labour a week early. What? Foggy saying only 3 days away. Well good luck to them. Please don't give birth tonight Flavia so that Fabio has to pull out.
In the first set Fognini was almost unplayable but in the second there were chances but Andy seemed out of ideas. His second serve is nowhere near it was last year.
lovetennis
16-05-2017, 21:38
Hope Andy can work out what is ailing him. I do think it is physical, he just looks sapped of energy and as Bardot pointed out he shouted that he couldn't move. Feel so bad for him, it must be so frustrating
HoopGirl
16-05-2017, 21:40
A sad first set with a more competitive second set.
Andy looking very vulnerable at the moment.
I'm not sure he believes in his game at the moment.
Is it his elbow, his energy or his mindset? Or an combination?
Wish he could skip the French Open and go straight to the grass like Federer is doing.
His poor dad who has come over to see him play and ends up seeing that!
I'm not really disappointed that Andy lost the match because I think we all knew that if Foggy turned up to play it would be a hard task for Andy in his present form. What I am concerned about is Andy continuing to play when there is clearly something wrong with him. I'm sure he's trying to play through whatever it is but that just doesn't appear to be working - surely it's time for a re-think.
The good thing about tennis is that there's always another tournament around the corner (Geneva? ;)). Remember the struggle Andy had in the first two rounds of RollyG taking 5 sets to overcome Stepanek and Borgue, I'm not sure this Andy would be as successful. He will welcome a kind draw for sure this year.
Oh well. Suppose it gives him time to have a late birthday party with the family....
I don't think Andy will feel like partying somehow.
OMG!! Foggy's tennis was off the scale tonight. The number of forehand winners for a start! I don't think many could have lived with that! Why did he have to keep it for Andy. :crying::crying: Poor Andy. I really do feel for him. He simply wasn't allowed to settle into any rhythm. Not much more to say really. :sad:
The target on Andy's back is getting bigger and bigger. The fear he used to instill isn't what it was last year and that's giving his opponents confidence. im the same now and I worry about everyone Andy plays and hopefully it's a clay thing and good times will come again. However he definitely isn't himself and everyone can see it. I just think he needs an inspirational moment in a match to get him on the rise again.
Wish the commies would shut up.
Sometimes I'm glad I'm deaf!
I'm not really disappointed that Andy lost the match because I think we all knew that if Foggy turned up to play it would be a hard task for Andy in his present form. What I am concerned about is Andy continuing to play when there is clearly something wrong with him. I'm sure he's trying to play through whatever it is but that just doesn't appear to be working - surely it's time for a re-think.
I think this is the point. If it is post viral fatigue you can't fight it. That makes it worse. You think you can, but you can't. It's stronger than you are. The fact he wasn't running down drop shots suggests an energy problem.It also makes you feel rough the whole time. I had it in 2001. It was the precursor to rheumatoid with me. Not nice.
The target on Andy's back is getting bigger and bigger. The fear he used to instill isn't what it was last year and that's giving his opponents confidence. im the same now and I worry about everyone Andy plays and hopefully it's a clay thing and good times will come again. However he definitely isn't himself and everyone can see it. I just think he needs an inspirational moment in a match to get him on the rise again.
I don't think so. I suspect they are aware he is ill in some way.
Poor Andy. I wonder if he should take some time off as injury time and go straight to the grass. I know he would drop a huge number of points but it is obvious something is wrong. I watched the kohlschreiber match again and he seemed to have a problem with his elbow then. If goes straight to the grass he will have time for it to heal. I feel he should not have played Indian wells. His game has not disappeared. We ha all written off these top guys and look what happens
I don't think so. I suspect they are aware he is ill in some way.
Coric actually said so and so did Feliciano Lopez.
I think this is the point. If it is post viral fatigue you can't fight it. That makes it worse. You think you can, but you can't. It's stronger than you are. The fact he wasn't running down drop shots suggests an energy problem.It also makes you feel rough the whole time. I had it in 2001. It was the precursor to rheumatoid with me. Not nice.
I hadn't thought of that but it does make sense. We are dealing with this as our 11 year old grandson, who is a non-stop football player. He is recovering very slowly from glandular fever
Whatever ails Andy it must be obvious to everyone that it is now very concerning - to his family, to his team, to his fans; Andy being Andy is just trying to work through it and it isn't working. They all need to take a step back and consider what needs to be done for his future health and well being. To be honest, I feel angry at them.
Are any or all of #TeamAndy jobs hanging on a shoogly peg? He's not averse to making bold decisions. Not a great analogy :p but if Andy was a football team going through a prolonged downturn, heads would roll.
RosieBear
16-05-2017, 22:16
Whatever ails Andy it must be obvious to everyone that it is now very concerning - to his family, to his team, to his fans; Andy being Andy is just trying to work through it and it isn't working. They all need to take a step back and consider what needs to be done for his future health and well being. To be honest, I feel angry at them.
But Clancy there's no point getting upset. We're just speculating about Andy's condition. He has got a great team of professionals around him who he has worked with for a long time and access to the best doctors, all of whom are working based on facts and info, not speculation. Andy and his team know what's best.
The thing is these players will know in their hearts why they won. I know when I used to compete I always knew thAt sometimes when I beat someone who should have beaten me that I had only done so because they were ill or injured.
But Clancy there's no point getting upset. We're just speculating about Andy's condition. He has got a great team of professionals around him who he has worked with for a long time and access to the best doctors, all of whom are working based on facts and info, not speculation. Andy and his team know what's best.
Andy is very stubborn. Do you remember how long it took for him to give in to his back .
I don't begrudge Foggy his win tonight. He played incredibly well, especially in the first set but he will know Andy wasn't himself. It was the same when he beat Andy in Naples when Andy was recovering from a virus and still played three days in a row.
RosieBear
16-05-2017, 22:26
Andy is very stubborn. Do you remember how long it took for him to give in to his back .
But I hardly think you can compare Andy's reluctance to undergo potentially career-ending surgery with anything else. People need to remember that no matter how much they care about Andy as fans, and we truly do, we are not in possession of any facts about his current situation, not a single one, so there is no point in getting upset with his team, who are in the know.
I forgot to say that Mark Cavendish is out with post viral fatigue because he tried to work through glandular fever. Sportsmen have a tendency to do this until it gets too much and then it takes longer to recover. Andy has missed RG before and gone on to win in the grass season.
Are the Majors governed by the same rules as ATP tournaments or could Andy choose not to play the French without citing injury? If I remember rightly, he didn't play RG in 2013 and went on to win Queens and Wimbledon that year. Wimbledon is really late this year - it would give him time to recover from whatever is ailing him.
angiebabez
16-05-2017, 22:38
Are the Majors governed by the same rules as ATP tournaments or could Andy chose not to play the French without citing injury? If I remember rightly, he didn't play RG in 2013 and went on to win Queens and Wimbledon that year. Wimbledon is really late this year - it would give him time to recover from whatever is ailing him.
Well fed isnt playing RG & he aint injured so how is he managing it?
RosieBear
16-05-2017, 22:39
Slams come under ITF rules.
So that's the reason for the slump. ;)
Giulio Fedele @fedele_giulio
Murray asked about Sharapova's WC in French Open: "I've spoken about this every week in the last five months, it's killing me."
More quotes
Giulio Fedele @fedele_giulio
Andy Murray said that in Montecarlo he could blame the injury but last few weeks he doesn't have excuses, he's just not playing good tennis
"Definitely, in the last few weeks I haven't moved well. My movement has been a big help last couple of year, but now it is a issue"
angiebabez
16-05-2017, 22:41
But I hardly think you can compare Andy's reluctance to undergo potentially career-ending surgery with anything else. People need to remember that no matter how much they care about Andy as fans, and we truly do, we are not in possession of any facts about his current situation, not a single one, so there is no point in getting upset with his team, who are in the know.
Folk cant help how they feel. If clancy is upset then so be it.
RosieBear
16-05-2017, 22:46
Folk cant help how they feel. If clancy is upset then so be it.
Very true. Equally folk can stand up for Andy's team when they're coming in for unfair criticism.
I can't go to sleep and have just been thinking so much about Andy.I believe he is suffering from "extreme fatigue" from having given so much of himself for the last ten years and put his body through so much to get to the top and that he should have complete rest and break from tennis for at least five weeks to have some sort of recovery. I hope he will get the right advise from the experts that are surrounding him and take time out.
Just saying.
There's a report in the Guardian post-match, - says he's not playing 'good tennis' & not moving well, so if he knows what's wrong or there's something else, he's still not admitting it.
He may well not know himself what is wrong. According to the Guardian article he still believes he can do well at the French. I really hope he's right but I can't help feeling that he's not.
I can't go to sleep and have just been thinking so much about Andy.I believe he is suffering from "extreme fatigue" from having given so much of himself for the last ten years and put his body through so much to get to the top and that he should have complete rest and break from tennis for at least five weeks to have some sort of recovery. I hope he will get the right advise from the experts that are surrounding him and take time out.
Just saying.
I think it's a combination of this, and post viral syndrome.
I think the pressure he put himself under last year made him a sitting duck for something like shingles. He loved carrying the Olympic Flag, but having been selected to do it he felt a major obligation to chip in a medal, preferably Gold to the pot.
We then had the US Open with the pressure of DC on him closely afterwards.
He played DC when he should have been grieving for his Grandfather. I can't think of any other job whereby you don't get compassionate leave for the death of a close relative.
He then went on that tear to No 1. I am glad he did because it would have been a travesty if he hadn't ever been No 1. Non of us could work out how he managed to slay Djokovic at the WTF, after those matches against Nishikori and Raonic. I think he did it by going into major league energy overdraft. There was a cost to that, and he is paying it back now.
As I said above, I think that made him a sitting duck for shingles. Being AM his response to everything is "It will be alright if I just work harder". Unfortunately that is the worst thing to do with post viral conditions. The more he pushes himself the longer it is going to take to get over this. Post viral conditions can also fug up the brain, so his usual ability to readjust what he needs to do as he is playing a match, might well be shot at the moment as well.
Better to lose to a Fognini playing great clay court tennis, than Zverev or Berdych.
He needs to go home, collect his knighthood and spend a month doing nothing more exacting than playing with Sophia.
I hope he pulls out of the French.
I took a long time to go to sleep last night much like many of us I am sure. I very rarely have a problem going to sleep but have difficulty staying that way. I was thinking of two things, a) Robin Soderling soldiered on through glandular fever and even through recovery and it ended up wrecking his career and b) my sister had shingles and was knocked out for 6months, she went from playing team squash 3times a week to resting most of the time. The doctor said she tried to go back too soon. I also know that there are many people even in the medical profession who do not actually accept post viral fatigue. Just a few thoughts
I do hope he doesn't feel that because Lendl is coming across he has to play the French. I wonder what Kim and his parents think about it all - they know him better than anyone. It's a really strange coincidence that both Andy and Djokers have hit the wall at the same time. Rafa and Fed must think all their birthdays have come!
HoopGirl
17-05-2017, 06:52
As RB says we don't know what's wrong with Andy and we are only guessing.
However it's an educated guess and we are experts of a sort - spending years as we have watching pretty much every match of his.
There is something wrong with Andy - we are all in agreement about that. Is it mental? Is it physical? Is it a combination?
I think this could be his longest period of poor form - can anyone else recall anything else as long as this?
In some ways I hope this is mental because with the right help it can be turned around relatively quickly.
If it's physical - post viral fatigue - or even worse - Chronic Fatigue Syndrome - then this is a different, more concerning kettle of fish.
CFS is hard to diagnose, medical tests may show nothing wrong (because they haven't as yet got the right tests or identified the right things to test for) yet the individual is profoundly tired, picking up all sorts of things and a host of other symptoms too in addition to fatigue. Brain fog is another feature so problem solving is challenging and tiring even without physical activity.
Hoping it's not post viral but it does seem likely - so many of those shots he didn't even go for last night - that's so unlike him - he always gives it a go and often manages to get to shots you don't think are even possible.
Whatever is the problem we can only watch and wait and hope for the best.
And send him our love and positive thoughts and hope that helps a wee bit.
Funny how we were riding on a cloud of success not long ago and now we are worried sick for him!
I have just seen Andy on BBC Breakfast and he sounds positive, knows he has a lot of work to do, and is going to do so in preparing for Roland Garros.
Whatever happens from here on doesn't actually matter to me. I hope he manages to sort himself out and cure whatever ails him, so we can enjoy him for longer, but if he can't so be it.
It's also not just the pressure of the last year, but the last decade. I don't think any of us (except possibly Tim Henman), can have any idea of what turning up for Wimbledon year after year has been like for him. In spite of that pressure, he delivered.
Win a Grand Slam
Win Wimbledon
Win Wimbledon again just to show the first time wasn't a fluke
Bring the Davis Cup home
Restore pride to British Tennis
He has done all that and more, whilst fielding the most vitriolic abuse from the Neanderthals within our society. If his mind and body are saying enough enough now, that's absolutely fine by me. I would far rather he retired with enough life left in his joints to run around with Sophia and the kids yet to come.
Those of us who have followed him appreciate just what he has achieved, and those of you who have followed him since he was a gangling, grumpy Kevin the teenager know far more than recent converts like me, just what a wasteland British Tennis was before Henman, and AM. I think we can all predict that we are heading for many more years of wasteland to come.
I have never been interested in comparisons with Federer, Nadal and Djokovic. I think he is a better man than all three of them combined. That to me is far more important.
When I said ages ago that I thought he wouldn't do much in the Australian, what I was actually thinking was he might not pull off any titles this year. He has already surpassed my prediction by wining one.
Go away Sir AM, and play with your family, and come back when your body and mind are healed. I think a decent rest now will give us and him another couple of years. If he doesn't I think Rimarli's prediction of a Sonderling type exit might well be on the cards.
Josephine
17-05-2017, 07:31
Gutted but not at all surprised by result yesterday.
Can I just make the point that the majority of Fognini's dropshots were so exquisite that on clay there was absolutely no chance of getting anywhere near them. Andy was usually totally wrong footed and had no chance of getting there so did not run.
I am also very concerned for Andy but I think we are also jumping to conclusions a bit here. We don't know if he is ill in any way or not. I had CFS and I was hardly able to get out of bed initially. But perhaps there is still some hangover from end of last year and then the shingles.
Maybe his style of play has just meant he won't be able to play as long as other players at very top level as it depends so much on movement and that is slowing down. And he has lost confidence in his shots and is not hitting the ball with enough speed.
Hopefully he can turn it around again on the grass which will be much less effort for him. Tennis on clay is so ridiculous anyway.
Also he hasn't hit the wall at the same time as Djokovic - I think Djokovic is definitely showing signs of having his mojo back.
And I'm sure Andy wanted to win the Olympic medal whether he carried the flag or not.
Anyway let's hope for an improvement - I really would hate to see him have to retire early as he has always said he wants to play well into his thirties and he did once say he wanted his child(ren) to get to see him play (at an age they would have some understanding and memory of).
Gutted but not at all surprised by result yesterday.
Can I just make the point that the majority of Fognini's dropshots were so exquisite that on clay there was absolutely no chance of getting anywhere near them. Andy was usually totally wrong footed and had no chance of getting there so did not run.
.
Some of Fognini's dropshots were terrific, I agree, but Murray was rarely prepared for them, he seemed less tactically aware than he usually is, plus I didn't see him playing any dp's. He used them a lot last year, & clay is the most effective surface to use them on. It's possible that Delgado has suggested he use them less than 2016, but clay's the time to. Baffling.
Murray said something along the lines of "making same mistakes & not changing things...." after a recent match (Boric?) & that's very unlike him.
Josephine
17-05-2017, 08:15
Andy has used plenty of dropshots on clay this year - not always effectively. I have seen many though not in this match.
Fognini was totally bossing the play forcing Andy behind the baseline - his dropshots as mentioned by the commentators were beautifully disguised and perfectly hit and Andy was usually so far back he had no chance to reach them.
Rosalind
17-05-2017, 08:20
Certainly needs to get a proper diagnosis if it is anything like that. I got shingles after finishing a teaching practice and I think it was my body just telling me that it was not putting up with any more weeks like that!
I had shingles when I was in my late twenties - so the same as Andy. I got it when I was run down - like Andy again I guess. However, you're young, you get better quickly and in Andy's case, you get the best treatment possible. It stays in your body forever and comes back when you are run down again (not everytime) but each time it diminishes in strength. Now I might get a few spots and feel tired for one day - that's all. I'm pretty sure that Andy's shingles have long since subsided.
Rosalind
17-05-2017, 08:21
Are any or all of #TeamAndy jobs hanging on a shoogly peg? He's not averse to making bold decisions. Not a great analogy :p but if Andy was a football team going through a prolonged downturn, heads would roll.
My thoughts entirely Bardot. Harsh but true. Ivan will be there for France (presumably) and my guess is discussions and decisions will be taking place re the others.
HoopGirl
17-05-2017, 08:29
Blimey - if he's ill then he needs time to recover. If it's his mind then he needs help to change his mindset.
Isn't it a bit premature to have him retiring or sacking his team ( the one who helped him with his amazing year last year!)?
Andy has used plenty of dropshots on clay this year - not always effectively. I have seen many though not in this match.
I see.....so he's lost the touch for them just now.....something else amiss.
Rosalind
17-05-2017, 08:35
Blimey - if he's ill then he needs time to recover. If it's his mind then he needs help to change his mindset.
Isn't it a bit premature to have him retiring or sacking his team ( the one who helped him with his amazing year last year!)?
Retiring - totally agree! re team: brilliant year last year but things have changed. It's all a moving target - other players improve etc. Isn't it like a finely tuned car? Things go wrong that were working before. You change to get it better again. I'm not saying I would want to do that myself - however I'm not a top athlete and Andy is and has made difficult changes before. No room for sentimentality. Of course I might be wrong and I'm only speculating from my humble armchair but I think it might be a possibility if things don't alter quickly.
Difficult times for us all but things will improve again. :knight:
According to Russell Fuller, this morning, Lendl will have his "work cut out for him" as he helps Sir Andy prepare for the French Open.
According to Russell Fuller, this morning, Lendl will have his "work cut out for him" as he helps Sir Andy prepare for the French Open.
Given according to AM the brutal off season training on top of a killer 2016, might have contributed to his current problems, I am not sure Lendl is the right "treatment" at the moment. I say that as one who thinks Lendl has been a force for good with AM.
LC the fan
17-05-2017, 09:09
To be fair, with the exception of the last couple of years, the devil dirt has never been a good place for Andy ...he has had some dire times at this period of the year.Disappointing yes, so sad for him, such a change on last year.
But only once he is back on the green grass if this lethargy continues will I be truly concerned.
And where is Lendl?
its difficult to know what the problem is - I think its confidence. Fogini was the worst possible opponent last night.
I think if he had not lost in Monte Carlo from 4-0 in the 3rd set we might have seen a different scenario. Hopefully he will have a couple of easier draws in the first few rounds of the French Open and that will settle him. Fogini is playing well at the moment - tested Rafa last week.
RosieBear
17-05-2017, 09:42
Isn't it a bit premature to have him retiring or sacking his team ( the one who helped him with his amazing year last year!)?
Yep. Andy has acknowledged that the amount of tennis he played last year is a major reason for his current lack of form i.e. a victim of his own success. Sacking any of the team that facilitated that success in 2016 makes zero sense on any level - unfair blame and unnecessary disruption.
I get that people are worried for Andy, but sometimes there just aren't quick fixes in life - suggesting that Andy's team are to blame just isn't right imo, and sorry but I found the the suggestion that they were (irresponsibly/incompetently/callously?) jeopardising Andy's health and well-being a very strong and baseless one.
As for mention of possible retirement - don't even get me started:rolleyes::rolleyes: - Andy stated his desire to play into his mid thirties, as recently as Jan when Fed won Aus, and just the other day on his birthday.
Every player has ups and down because neither good times or bad times last forever - all we can do is wait patiently for the good times to return, which they WILL.
sir coolerking
17-05-2017, 10:36
Also he hasn't hit the wall at the same time as Djokovic - I think Djokovic is definitely showing signs of having his mojo back.
I'm going to disagree on this, I think he's hit the wall at exactly the same time as Djokovic. Novak had one thing left to achieve, the career slam. He achieved that and hit the wall. For Andy it was really all about getting to Number 1. He's achieved that and now he's hit the wall too.
Maybe he does have physical issues which we don't know about, but he's not mentioned anything beyond the elbow. I thought he actually served ok last night, it was the passive groundstrokes that were his undoing, like going back 10 years.
I guess we'll see what will come out in the wash, but sounds like he's keen on playing Paris and if there are no physical issues, then maybe a few words from Lendl might do the trick. If nothing else, he's hitting Paris as a pretty fresh player.
Josephine
17-05-2017, 11:32
OK Sorry I thought you meant at the same time as in 'at the same time' rather than similar set of circumstances.
I also agree he seems to have gone back to passive groundstrokes and defensive play and that won't beat the best especially as he is bound to slow down as he gets older.
Agreed about the passive groundstrokes.
Such a contrast with players like Foggy, and indeed Kyle, who I love watching too.
I know all-out attack will never be Andy's game, but there has to be some sort of balance I'd have thought.
Oh dear oh dear .... honestly guys, can we all get a blinking grip?! It's doom and gloom city and some on here!! I am completely with you RB .... WE DO NOT HAVE A SINGLE FACT ABOUT WHAT IS WRONG!! I know people naturally want to know and therefore speculate but it's getting more and more depressing with each passing post on this thread, and none of it is fact.
Andy has had dips like this in the past and has always come back stronger. Whatever it is, and who's to say it's not just a case of lack of wins leading to lack of confidence, he will come good. Of course we're all concerned, I get that, but all sports people have good and bad times. Even the robot like Djoko has had a slump (quite a long one). Rafa was also beset with low confidence and lost the winning habit. A few good wins could completely turn Andy's season around and that could be just around the corner! I'm going to look forward to the French Open (no I don't think he should pull out) and follow our mantra #AlwaysBelieve ... and I do!
sir coolerking
17-05-2017, 14:40
Agreed Caro, last week's defeat was far more of a concern. Fognini was the only player who gave Rafa a run for his money in Madrid, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him make the final this week. Andy came up against an in form clay courter, something he's always been susceptible to throughout his career. I did think he was a little passive, but even at his best it would have been a tight match. Until he reveals something (and there's no obvious sign that he will) best to stop the guesswork.
Yes agree totally sir coolerking...best to stop the guesswork. Of course we are all concerned, but speculation doesn't help. As Anna says, we have absolutely nothing to go on so it's pointless comparing him with other so called similar cases...every case is totally different and affects each individual in a different way as any medic will tell you.
Also let's not forget how very good Foggy was last night. It was he who played a major part in Andy's defeat, it wasn't ALL Andy's fault! Andy did do some good things too...it's just that they were overshadowed with Foggy's spectacular play. (Yes, I know...not overlooking some passive play etc!)
Also agree with Anna that just about every top athlete has ups and downs...it's all part of the package of being at the top. Hard as it is to watch Andy having to go through his down time, it's our job now to support Andy through this and back to his winning ways again (which of course we are doing) and I am 100% confident that is going to happen. 'IF' by Kipling comes to mind.
As for the French Open, it appears to me Andy wants to play and if that is his wish, why shouldn't he? He is the one who knows best how his body is coping and I'm sure if he felt there was anything seriously wrong, he wouldn't play. The fact that he is up for it is a good sign to me.
That's all folks!! (and of course #always believe!!)
Josephine
17-05-2017, 17:21
The main concern is that he is not playing good tennis - and that is what Andy himself said. Yes Fognini played brilliantly, but as Petch said a lot of the time Andy was just hitting balls going down the middle and landing short. Serving was pretty wayward too.
Sure things will buck up eventually.
But I think it fills us with dread because the day Andy does retire will be sad for us and speaking for myself, something will be missing from my life.
Sure that is a long way ahead!:thumbup:
Keeptheheid
17-05-2017, 21:58
I'm sure it's the same as with us mere mortals, when we go to work/daily slog of life, there are some days you try your hardest but just can't give 100%. Shame Andy has a very large audience when he is having a wee difficult patch. My support for him will never fade. ��. We Believe ����
HoopGirl
18-05-2017, 06:12
The Telegraph has a good article today about Andys current form.
In it a tennis player says he can see it's not physical but mental. Which is encouraging I feel.
He needs a good draw in Paris and a boost confidence wise plus a lift from seeing Lendl this weekend.
The Telegraph has a good article today about Andys current form.
In it a tennis player says he can see it's not physical but mental. Which is encouraging I feel.
He needs a good draw in Paris and a boost confidence wise plus a lift from seeing Lendl this weekend.
Great article, I agree with everything Simon says. He says everything I was trying to say (only a lot better!) and much more besides. I am feeling positive as I said, that things will turn around.
HoopGirl
18-05-2017, 10:57
Great article, I agree with everything Simon says. He says everything I was trying to say (only a lot better!) and much more besides. I am feeling positive as I said, that things will turn around.
I think you were saying it pretty well Caro!
It's good to have an insider say that it's mental.
HoopGirl
18-05-2017, 14:18
Daily Mail saying Andy has issues with his coach!
Not based on anything other than previous patterns of coach issues and impact on form.
I've completely changed my mind about Andy. Sorry if I started a negative trend on this thread! Although it looks as though he has been nose diving I feel he has what it takes to pull up quickly at the next event. This mini crisis is just what he needs to motivate him to find his form and do well. He has 10 days. I'm sure he can do it.
Come on Andy!! :knight:
I've completely changed my mind about Andy. Sorry if I started a negative trend on this thread! Although it looks as though he has been nose diving I feel he has what it takes to pull up quickly at the next event. This mini crisis is just what he needs to motivate him to find his form and do well. He has 10 days. I'm sure he can do it.
Come on Andy!! :knight:
I really hope you're right, Pam, and that Andy bounces back at the French. I will be more than happy to eat my words!
JAMES4578
19-05-2017, 15:16
I'm sure Andy will bounce back in due course and ups and downs par for the course,even if a few concerning performances lately. One good match could make all the difference and if all goes to plan the French could go well, however I'm expecting Wimbledon to be more rewarding.
He needs a good draw in Paris.
I hope he's not in the same half as Thiem! :sofa:
But regardless of what happens in Paris, I'm sure he'll be back on form for Queens and Wimbledon.
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