Book Club - see first post for who's choosing the book for which month [Archive] - Page 3

Sallydaisy

15-06-2012, 12:33

The book I've chosen is by Susan Hill, who has written a very wide range of novels over the last 50 years with her first being published before she went to University.

She is probably best known for the ghost thriller The Woman in Black which was turned into a very successful stage play which has run in the West End for over 20 years, been a TV drama and more recently a Hammer Film Production. Having seen the play performed live I can assure you it is VERY scary!!!

However, she has also written several newspaper columns, more ghost stories, crime thrillers (the more recent Simon Serrailler series), a sequel to Rebecca (by Du Maurier) called Mrs De Winter, various fictional unrelated stories and a few semi-autobiographical works. One written a few years after the sudden death of her fiance is a cathartic study of loss (In The Springtime of the Year,1974); another, (Family, 1989), is how she dealt with several miscarriages before finally having a 2nd daughter and all the grief and eventual joy that brought.

The book we are to read falls between those two somewhat personal events and is written during a more settled period of her life when she began to write regularly again. It's about a year (1980-1981) in the small village near Oxford where she lived with her husband (Shakespeare scholar Stanley Wells) and first daughter and has been variously described as gentle and Hardyesque.

With Susan Hill there are always twists and turns ...

The book is The Magic Apple Tree.

It's available from Amazon in both the UK and USA; paperback from 0.01p with £2.80 p&p.
I do not think it is on Kindle ...

pabbers

15-06-2012, 13:34

Sounds different to what we've been reading so far Sally - am intrigued - already on order! No flies on me ;)

RoastLamb

15-06-2012, 17:18

I've got all of Susan Hill's crime fiction books in my library. This sounds right up my alley. :thumbup:

cazza99

15-06-2012, 17:36

I'm half way through it Jane......but Ronnie's nearer to you than me.

I have the series, but I'm a bit further away :)

RoastLamb

16-06-2012, 14:29

Susan Hill was awarded a CBE in today's Queen's honour list.

patmoren

16-06-2012, 15:48

RoastLamb

16-06-2012, 15:52

I don't mind at all. Can't wait to read it.

Sallydaisy

16-06-2012, 15:58

Would anyone mind if I posted my summary of the Crown of Stars early as I should be moving out of Cornwall on 27th into my new home on 28th June, my ISP is hoping to get the broadband up and running then but it may fall over and take a few more days. So it is either early or late whichever you prefer.

I'm just over half-way through Crown of Stars and should get it finished by Monday midnight latest.
Can you hold off posting your summary until next Tuesday/Wednesday?

hfwardhouse

16-06-2012, 16:21

I don't think I'll be finished reading till w/c 25th - if then .... time isn't on my side at the moment - but I can just avoid this thread until I've finished if Pat let's me know the post is there!

patmoren

16-06-2012, 20:20

Wednesday is too late, I will have closed down the computers the night before. Might be better therefore, if I leave it until I am connected to broadband in Eaton Bray, shouldn't be more than a couple of days late and if the broadband works might be on the 1st!!

RoastLamb

17-06-2012, 00:21

Or you can send it to me via a PM and I will post on the appropriate date.

pabbers

17-06-2012, 07:28

Just do what suits you best Pat - it's not crucial to do it on the actual date. A few days late would be fine or people can avoid this thread, as Jane said, if they know you're going to post early.

Sallydaisy

17-06-2012, 09:37

I don't mind Pat so don't stress about it; later is fine with me if that is alright with others, it doesn't have to be on the 1st July! After all I've only just told people which book to read next.
:p

hfwardhouse

17-06-2012, 12:43

Happy whatever you do Pat - am only about halfway through and at the speed I'm reading ... or the time I've got available - it'll be a while before I get to the end! If you are posting early let me know and I'll avoid the thread :)

RoastLamb

17-06-2012, 12:53

Talking about Sally's book I couldn't get it in our libraries here, nor at the bookstore, I managed to get a used copy off Amazon though. Phew!

Linda

17-06-2012, 12:56

I thought I'd seen Susan Hill books in the charity shops so I looked in them yesterday - they did indeed have several, but not that one (however I bought half a dozen other books). Sussex Stationers and Smiths didn't have it either. I daresay Waterstones would have it but I went to Bognor, not Chichester. I'll have to look on Amazon (who must by now be thinking that I have very varied taste in books!)

pabbers

18-06-2012, 16:36

Linda, mine just arrived today from Amazon - only second hand copies on there too. Think it was £2-76 and free postage so not bad.

hfwardhouse

18-06-2012, 17:21

Mine's on its way from Amazon - you must've got the last cheap one Pat ... mine was a scary £2.81 ;) of which £2.80 was postage .... :lol:

RoastLamb

18-06-2012, 18:29

Mine was $2.80 plus $6.90 P&P so the book cost a lot less than sending it to me.

Linda

18-06-2012, 18:50

Just ordered it. I've never bought a second hand book through Amazon before but they didn't have any new ones. It was 1p plus £2.80 postage, which I find very strange!

Hawkeye

18-06-2012, 19:17

I've done that a lot, and providing you choose one at good quality or better, they are usually fine.

cazza99

18-06-2012, 21:20

I've done that a lot, and providing you choose one at good quality or better, they are usually fine.

snap

hfwardhouse

19-06-2012, 17:01

I've done that lots too - Amazon or Ebay .... just the same as buying from a charity shop or second hand book stall ....

RoastLamb

19-06-2012, 17:39

How can they make any profits on second-hand books? Or is the point just to get rid?

Still have 150 pages left to go in King's Dragon. This has taken me the longest time to read of any book except maybe Pillars of Earth which was almost twice the page count.

Amazon hasn't sent me my other book club pick yet and I have only one week to go. :eek:

hfwardhouse

19-06-2012, 20:20

Wow that's not like Amazon - they're usually super speedy!!! I don't think they want to make big profits on second hand books - probably the idea is that you buy from them second hand then you go back again for a new book if you like the service?! Dunno! I've got a lot more pages to go in King's Dragon and as I'm away from home from tomorrow till Sunday night and will most likely be way too tired to read in the evenings as I'm working at the Royal Highland Show all week - it's unlikely I'll be finished anytime soon ....

cazza99

19-06-2012, 20:55

RoastLamb

23-06-2012, 15:41

Got my used copy in the post yesterday. Sent from the UK.

Less than 100 pages to go now... Final countdown begins.

pabbers

23-06-2012, 16:01

Got my used copy in the post yesterday. Sent from the UK.

Less than 100 pages to go now... Final countdown begins.
Presume you mean on the current book, not Sally's choice??? I've nearly finished the second one in the series.

RoastLamb

23-06-2012, 16:52

Sallydaisy

23-06-2012, 17:17

Steady on Pabbers!
:rolling:
I'm not that fast a reader considering I only got Sally's book yesterday afternoon. I have another book club book to read before Sally's anyway and with Wimbly starting who knows when I'll finish that one!
:eek:
I forgot to make notes when reading Kings Dragon so I'm rereading sections and doing that. Should be done by next week but anyway I think we have a bit of leeway whilst Pat makes her move.

pabbers

23-06-2012, 18:45

Steady on Pabbers! :rolling: I'm not that fast a reader considering I only got Sally's book yesterday afternoon. I have another book club book to read before Sally's anyway and with Wimbly starting who knows when I'll finish that one! :eek:

Phew - it's my inferiority complex at being such a slow reader :doh:

RoastLamb

26-06-2012, 18:35

FINISHED!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Only took me a month. Yay! Won't be reading any more of 'em, I'm so done.

Linda

26-06-2012, 22:31

The Magic Apple Tree just arrived. It's a bit battered. Looks like the type of book my Mum used to enjoy.

RoastLamb

26-06-2012, 22:49

Mine's a bit battered too but I'm looking forward to reading it.

hfwardhouse

27-06-2012, 08:03

I'm going to struggle to finish the King's Dragon by the end of the week - it's been so manic here - hopefully by the time Pat gets settled and posts I'll be just about there!

pabbers

27-06-2012, 09:47

Started the Magic Apple Tree - not the sort of book I would normally pick up, so nice to have to read something out of my comfort zone.

hfwardhouse

04-07-2012, 16:54

Any word on when Pat's going to have broadband working and we can start discussing King's Dragon? Now that I've finished it!!!

cazza99

04-07-2012, 17:12

Any word on when Pat's going to have broadband working and we can start discussing King's Dragon? Now that I've finished it!!!

Don't know how you can be thinking of books with this match going on :)

hfwardhouse

04-07-2012, 17:21

Don't know how you can be thinking of books with this match going on :)

I was hiding behind the :sofa: ;)

RoastLamb

04-07-2012, 17:33

Don't know how you can be thinking of books with this match going on :)

:lol: I know I'm not.

Sallydaisy

04-07-2012, 17:36

Any word on when Pat's going to have broadband working and we can start discussing King's Dragon? Now that I've finished it!!!
Already left a message for you last night!

hfwardhouse

04-07-2012, 17:37

Did you? .... um .... where?

hfwardhouse

04-07-2012, 17:40

Found it ;)

Linda

04-07-2012, 20:58

It's so long since I read it that I think I'll have to have another quick flick through - have read several other books since and am now on Sally's choice!

patmoren

07-07-2012, 07:51

Sorry this is so late but entirely out of my control.

Kings Dragon is the first book in a series of 7, so imagine for a minute what is involved in writing a series like this which is only loosely based on history and real life. It is pure fantasy and imagination.

It is said that a lot of Fantasy novels are based on the best known author of this genre J R Tolkien. This may have been so originally but I think that SF has developed considerably since then. This is what fascinates me about SF, how can an author have the imagination to create new worlds and species, give these a history and a future and develop a series which stays true to the original idea.

I hope you enjoy the book and are tempted to read the other 6 in the series. Unfortunately with Science Fiction and Fantasy you either love it or hate it.

patmoren

07-07-2012, 07:57

Kings Dragon does what it sets out to do, introduces the main characters and develops their role; defines the main antagonists and gets you involved in their future. I haven't read any books by Kate Elliott before, her mother is Katherine Kerr, who is also an SF writer, so you could say it is in the genes, but enjoyed this one and looking forward to continuing with the series.
The floor is yours!!

Sallydaisy

09-07-2012, 18:32

Thanks Pat, for your introduction to Kings Dragon.
:flowers:

Sorry for the delay in responding but have had a lot else going on over this weekend and today I've slept a lot. Will post my comments later this evening - it's on a very long list of forum stuff to do!

hfwardhouse

09-07-2012, 18:43

I loved King's Dragon. I've been a fan of SF/Fantasy books ever since I read the Lord of the Rings as a teenager. I don't like them all, but this one just sucked me in almost from the very beginning. The intriguing mother leaving her newborn son with his father and disappearing completely from the world - mysterious and intriguing and I just had to keep reading. The main characters were likeable, and we learned the history along with them as they moved through the various challenges that crossed their paths. The author's imagination knows no bounds and I think it's fascinating to learn about these new imaginary worlds, peoples, creatures.

As Pat says, you either love SF or hate it. I'm a fan, have always been a fan and can't wait to read book 2.

RoastLamb

09-07-2012, 22:44

I found this book a real struggle to read. It took me a month. You know when people say they can't put a book down? Well I didn't want to pick it up but I was determined to finish all 600+ pages because I bought it and I always finish my book club selections. I was a bit worried someone would pick fantasy and as it turns out even though it wasn't quite as bad as I envisaged I know for a fact I will never read another one again. I particularly struggled to get past the first 100 pages but Linda encouraged me saying it would get better which it did but not enough to really engage me.

The author has a great imagination with her world of characters and places. Unfortunately I prefer real places or places where I have some frame of reference. I get that's just me, I know many readers love made-up places and characters. I guess that's why I never got into Star Wars or Lord of the Rings or even Narnia. The only reason I watched the Narnia movies was because of the delicious actor playing Prince Caspian. Anyway, as a result I got lost many times with the newness of the names of places and characters. I couldn't visualise anything either. And I found it really hard to keep track of what was going on. I finished the book a couple of weeks ago and as I'm typing this I can't recall any of the names. Oh wait! No, the young male was called Alain.

So for me it had little appeal but I can understand why people love this kind of fiction.

I would give it 1/10.

pabbers

10-07-2012, 06:54

I thoroughly enjoyed this book, for the most part (I've read the second one too and shall go on to the third at some point). I found the characters engaging and I loved the action. The mix of the futuristic with magic and religion was well done I thought. The story is gripping and I couldn't wait to find out what happened in part 2. The only thing I didn't enjoy was some of the lengthy descriptive bits which for me didn't add anything and I tended to skip them or skim read. I love fiction and imagination and very rarely read anything factual or biographical, so I'm the complete opposite of RL. It's what makes a book club interesting I guess.

MurrayAOne

10-07-2012, 20:41

Thanks Pat for that introduction. Firstly apologies, as it appears I have written rather a lot more than others! I would also just like to say that whilst my comments fall on the negative side I do feel that every book I read is a worthwhile experience. I do find it difficult to criticise a book when time and trouble has been taken to choose it for others but I know this is part of the job (!) and if you bear with me I do end on a positive note!!!

With regard to Pat’s initial comments I’m afraid, for me, the author did rather a lot more than merely develop the main characters and create an interest in their future. That was the problem. I found this book, for the most part, an extremely irritating read. Yes, the story was ok and although I found the main characters shallow they were likeable enough. It was spoilt for me however by the author’s total preoccupation with her own fictional fantasy world and the relentless detailed presentation of its construct. Yes, the author needs to establish her world to the reader, but the constant bombardment of unnecessary, interminable, boring, repetitive, repetitive, repetitive, repetitive detail completely overshadowed any pleasure I found in reading and continually interrupted any flow of story or display of character. I felt the author was far too self indulgent with the details of this fictional world. I have quite a receptive and avid imagination and would have been quite happy to have ‘lost’ myself in this ‘other world’. I just did not find it necessary to be educated in its societal structure and religious hierarchy to degree level. I’m sure I could write a thesis on Darian, Wendar and Varre’s royal and religious dynasty paying particular attention to each and every subtle language variation. I am not a reader that skips chunks of a book. I like to read all that is written and it is for this reason that, when Rosvita says, ‘I am writing a history of the Wendish people’, I thought, ‘So could I mate - no problem!’ As an example of this point: It is not enough for us to know that Hugh rose and dressed early on the morning of St Perpetuas Day. No. Too simple. The author feels the need to intersperse this sentence with further information about St Perpetua’s day. It is ‘the twelfth day of the month of Yanu’…finished?....no....she goes on.…’which this year fell two days after the Feast of the Translutas’…WHY??? WHO CARES??? Now, I am all for background detail but this was page 200 and I had been through 199 pages of many more such instances and knew I had over 300 ahead of me and at this point was feeling extremely frustrated with the book. Undoubtedly, on occasion, such detail may have been necessary to aid the reader in terms of storyline plot but for the most part it was not. The repetition also seemed interminable. The number of times I made this note…’WE KNOW ALREADY’!!!... Liath is deaf to magic….I KNOW ALREADY!!! I lost count how many times I read that fact; whether by the author’s voice or Liath herself. And the words, ‘as da always said…’ appeared so much they began to sound comical. I kept expecting some kind of humourous Victoria Wood comment to follow. I wish!
There were however some positives. By three quarters of the way through the book thankfully, I had actually begun to care about the main characters. Also there were some excellent social reversals: ‘It is always to the benefit of a man to be strengthened by marriage to a woman his equal in courage and wit.’; it was the, ‘duty of the eldest daughter to inherit…and of the eldest son to marry well.’, and, ‘Sabella had recently dismissed her latest concubine in favour of a younger, handsomer man.’!!! I also enjoyed Bloodheart’s confused awareness of Liath staring at him in the flames and telling her to be gone. This was well written and imaginative.

Overall though I couldn’t say this has been my favourite read. I felt the author should have written with more constraint and feeling for her audience and eased off a little on the bombardment of such terms of reference that are difficult for the reader to appreciate in this, the first, and for me the last - no surprise there - of the series. I actually wouldn’t mind finding out how Liath, Alain, Sanglant and Bloodheart fair in the next book but I am not willing to sign up for the Social and Religious History of Wendar and Varre module; my days of being a mature student are passed! Maybe Pat and others who have enjoyed the book enough to carry on could let me know!

I would like to end on a positive note. One of the other things I disliked was the total lack of humour - HOWEVER - this book was saved for me, ironically, by one piece of brilliant, albeit unintentional, humour. I had to wait until page 542 for it but there it was in all its glory - a marvelous description of the onset of female menopause, ‘Judith…brushed a finger along her upper lip where a fine down of hair grew, the mark of her impending passage from fertility to wisdom’ What a marvelous, wonderful sentence! In this instance the author forgiven her propensity to elaborate; for how much better is this than, ‘Judith…brushed a finger along her menopausal moustache!’ I found this marvelously funny and for this reason I thank Pat for choosing this book!!!

3/10 - for that sentence!!!

RoastLamb

10-07-2012, 22:19

Wow! That was enjoyable to read, MurrayAOne. The detail overwhelmed me too but for me because I just couldn't imagine this world at all.

I will say this that I missed before. The religious aspects were interesting. Goes to show all worlds devise their own religion, power structures/struggles, etc.

Linda

10-07-2012, 22:32

I must say that I agree with much of MA1' s post above, and also RL's.

I like a book that is set in the real world, with fictional characters taking part in real historical events. When reading such a book, I really like all the historical detail as it adds to my knowledge. However if it is a completely fictional world there is no point whatsoever in having all this detail.

I was quite prepared, however, to read a fantasy book and have read several before, some of which I have enjoyed (usually those that do not take themselves seriously) and some I have not. There are certain things that always seem to crop up in a fantasy book:

(1) The map at the beginning. Usually most of the place names sound Nordic. In this case, we had the map but the place names were very similar to those in existence in medieval France & Germany.
(2) References to buildings or other things that were built/made by a previous race that had mysteriously disappeared (usually elves). We had these buildings, but not the elves.
(3) A young person who has magical powers but doesn't know that they have, usually because they don't know who their real parents are. In the first two chapters, we were introduced to two possible candidates for this role.
(4) Some kind of science or material which is very powerful but not fully understood, left behind by the elves and usually referred to as 'alchemical'. We were spared this reference.

As I started to read the first chapter, all about Alain, I couldn't take to him as a character at all - which rather put me off the book from the start. As I continued to read, I found more and more references to the religion which was about 90% copied from Christianity, particularly the Catholic church. The whole structure of the religion, the festivals, ceremonies and prayers etc. were copied. I found this very irritating. If this is fantasy, why copy so much from the real world? And then the various kingdoms and rulers and wars - most of the names, battles, etc. were taken from medieval European history. And of course religion played a very big part in the events of those times. There was of course the heresy of the Cathars. I got the impression that the author really wanted to set the book in medieval France/Germany but couldn't be bothered to do the research to get all the facts right, so just used as much as she knew of those times and made up the rest. So the book was a sort of halfway house, neither a historical novel nor fantasy but something in between.

Fairly early on in the book I was seriously considering giving up, even though I have only given up on two books in my whole life out of all the hundreds I have read. However I ploughed on and did start to care a bit about Liath. By the end, I was mildly interested in what might become of Liath and Sanglant. But not interested enough to buy the next book.

RoastLamb

10-07-2012, 23:47

I thought you'd be irritated by all the religious detail. Just waiting for your comments. :rolling: I know I was. It would have been more interesting if she'd made up a totally different world without me feeling like she was just substituting real words/references with different names. And I got seriously ticked off by all the religious stuff. And, as MurrayAOne points out, the tedious repetition.

hfwardhouse

12-07-2012, 10:36

I did find a lot of the description annoying as well but am used to that in the other fantasy type books I've read. I'm a bit like Pat, skim through those bits I don't need to know about!

patmoren

12-07-2012, 19:20

I think you are all taking it too seriously. it is fantrasy not real life.

Sallydaisy

15-07-2012, 15:08

Given the 'pre-read' comments on this book I wasn't sure how I'd get on with it.

I took it away with me during a week away in the middle of June when I was staying at my Mum's (painting/decorating binge) even though I knew it'd be difficult to concentrate on reading with my parent around. So, I went off to bed early most nights and one evening decided to start this around 10.30pm - and was still reading it at 3.30am!!!

Suffice to say I think I got along with it very well because it takes a decently written book for me to be so engrossed!!! But there were sections that had me wanting to nod off ... which is probably a good thing at 3.30am!

The overall plot was quite standard 'fantasy' fare - kingdom in turmoil with split loyalties to and from the King, a strong religion with power hungry leaders, invaders/monsters from over the border/overseas, an 'other' world of elvish/fairy type beings with a pagan feel, some 'good-eggs', a couple of innocents-scheduled-to-become-heroes, a good looking princeling and a hint of future romance. Not forgetting the 'witches' brew type prologue!
:cauldron:

I could just as easily be describing the basis for several well known epic fantasies including Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings!!! The latter is an interesting reference because having seen a fair bit written about the Crown of Stars I decided to look up the background to the writing of it and found that Elliott had long been a major fan of LOTR and wanted to write a long epic fantasy herself.

That helped to put this first book into context since the author clearly uses it to do a lot of scene setting for the remaining 6 books in the series. In so doing she fleshed out the basic, fairly simple, story of the first book, which was to introduce the major characters of the 'epic', with lots of detail of the religion of her imagined land and how it impacted on the lives of the key players. I thought some of the titles were 'cop-outs' i.e. biscop instead of bishop, instead of being a bit more inventive. I was a bit alarmed when I came to the first longish chunk about the religion of the land because I hadn't realised how much that would be a part of the book.
I don't mind but I was hoping for a bit more action - plenty of that came later!
:battle:

I found some of the detail a bit un-necessary though and there were huge descriptive chunks that slowed down the pace of the novel - to it's detriment in my view. It was obvious from the beginning that Elliott had pitched the story around medieval times* and drew on much of that era for descriptions of how people lived - and perhaps how much inter-country conflict existed then. I thought she brought that all to life very well and also liked how she worked in the gender-equal religion with it's conflicting overtones of paganism. I didn't mind that she filched various aspects of history/religion and used them in the book - that's hardly new or unusual from writers of fiction and fantasy.

I quite enjoyed the story telling from the points of view of Liath and Alain. Initially I wasn't keen on the latter but his character blossomed as the book went on and I liked him by the end. Liath began as a victim of circumstance and still has some mystery attached to her and the role she is to play. So I'm intrigued by her character rather more. Sanglant is the other 'young' character around whom so much of this fantasy world revolves and he ended up the worst off at the end of Kings Dragon!

I rather wished it had been that nasty so-and-so Hugh who'd been thrown to the dogs! Wasn't he an evil blighter!!!
:big grin:

All in all it was a decent read and I liked it so I think I'll probably read the rest of the series because I'd like to see how it all plays out and how the 'banished' lot get on with their planned return!!!

Thanks Pat for introducing it to us.
:thumbup:

* Elliott's sister is a professor in medieval German court culture at Duke University.

Sallydaisy

19-07-2012, 16:30

Hope everyone has managed to get a copy of the current book to read?
http://www.4smileys.com/smileys/read-smileys/bookclub.gif

patmoren

19-07-2012, 20:28

Finished it some time ago!!

hfwardhouse

19-07-2012, 22:00

Got it but not taking any paper books on hols ... only e-books as they're lighter and easier to pack ;) ... will get round to reading it on my return. Just a teensy bit infuriated that I'm in the middle of a paperback book that has just started to grip me and have sworn not to take any paperback books with me ... aaargh ... mind you we have to drive to Edinburgh tomorrow so there's a good chance I could have it nearly finished by then .... if I can tear myself away from twitter long enough ;)

Sallydaisy

19-07-2012, 22:13

s'ok - I just wanted to try out the cute smileys.
:p

pabbers

21-07-2012, 10:06

Had started to read it but somehow found myself reading 50 Shades of Grey as a colleague has lent it to me. I was reading it on the train and looked around at the empty seats........had about 10 people standing behind reading it over my shoulder..........just joking. Have to say I'm quite enjoying it. IMHO it's not badly written and it's actually "romantic" in a strange sort of way. Sorry.......better get myself over to the "what are you reading" thread :getcoat:

RoastLamb

27-07-2012, 01:19

Started reading The Magic Apple Tree a few days ago whilst in Whistler. LOVE LOVE LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Linda

27-07-2012, 12:02

Really???

pabbers

27-07-2012, 12:52

A bit like the sci fi fantasy one then, there could be some interesting reviews...........

RoastLamb

27-07-2012, 15:03

:lol: That's true. You didn't like it, Linda? Interesting. Can't wait to hear why.

pabbers

09-08-2012, 18:39

Not long now till we discuss The Magic Apple Tree. BTW Sally you need to add the title into the first post. Also who's choosing the next book and what is it please? I'm off on hols on 18 August and could do with taking it with me.

RoastLamb

09-08-2012, 18:48

I'm choosing it. I will let you know the next couple of days. I have already got it but just want to provide the necessary details.

patmoren

09-08-2012, 21:08

Can't wait, enjoying reading what other people enjoy. Amazing how varied our choices are.

RoastLamb

09-08-2012, 22:56

My pick for September is: The Mistress of Nothing by Kate Pullinger (paperback).

Amazon.co.uk page. (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mistress-Nothing-Kate-Pullinger/dp/184668711X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1344552536&sr=1-1)

You can buy it new, used or on kindle.

Book description:
Lady Duff Gordon is the toast of Victorian London. But when her debilitating tuberculosis means exile, she and her devoted lady's maid, Sally, set sail for Egypt. It is Sally who describes, with a mixture of wonder and trepidation, the odd ménage marshalled by the resourceful Omar, which travels down the Nile to a new life in Luxor. As Lady Duff Gordon undoes her stays and takes to native dress, throwing herself into weekly salons; language lessons; excursions to the tombs; Sally too adapts to a new world, affording her heady and heartfelt freedoms never known before. But freedom is a luxury that a maid can ill-afford, and when Sally grasps more than her status entitles her to, she is brutally reminded that she is mistress of nothing.

This is actually based on a true story - they were all real people. BUT there is nothing actually known about Sally after she leaves Lady Duff Gordon's employ so the author has fictionalised her life from that point on. Lady Duff Gordon did write books on her trips abroad and they were published to much acclaim. What we know about Sally is taken from her book/diary of Egypt.

Deadline is SEPTEMBER 30th.

Linda

10-08-2012, 12:57

That sounds really interesting! Looking forward to it :)

pabbers

10-08-2012, 13:05

Thanks RL - will order it forthwith!

MurrayAOne

10-08-2012, 17:34

Can't wait, enjoying reading what other people enjoy. Amazing how varied our choices are.

Me too!

MurrayAOne

10-08-2012, 17:36

My pick for September is: The Mistress of Nothing by Kate Pullinger (paperback).

Thanks! Looking forward to reading it!

hfwardhouse

10-08-2012, 20:31

Ordered my copy from ebay) - secondhand - £2.94 inc postage. Better than over £6 on Amazon!

Yes, I know I'm a cheapskate :red devil:

patmoren

17-08-2012, 13:28

Where is Sally and her book, D Day has nearly passed.

pabbers

17-08-2012, 14:30

Think she's been a bit busy but will be doing it very soon I'm sure.

Sallydaisy

17-08-2012, 16:20

Where is Sally and her book, D Day has nearly passed.
Hours to go yet!!! Been a bit busy today and not long home.
Need a cuppa first and catch up with some stuff so I'll write the review this evening.
Before 23.59 .....
:p

Sallydaisy

17-08-2012, 22:24

The Magic Apple Tree is slightly different to the books we’ve read so far since it is autobiographical and draws directly on the writers experiences of life in a rural village not far from Oxford during 1980/1981.

For all the factual elements, Susan Hill spins a gentle tale around her chosen focus of an old apple tree. It provides the marker for the seasons of the year and remains a constant presence through the book and the comings and goings of family and village life around it.

Much of the book deals with the practicalities of country living. Being cut off in winter weather, keeping warm (and cool), living spaces, using food and ingredients that can be found to hand or reared locally, and trading surpluses from one for skills of another. Even though the book was written over 30 years ago (before most of us had a home computer or mobile phone!) many of those practicalities are just as relevant now.
It’s just that they’ve become trendy - and in cases of reduced incomes they’re necessary.

The book may have some sentimental moments but they’re well contrasted by sharp observations of the characters - human and animals - that come together in small communities. I grew up in village in rural Worcestershire and a lot of the minutiae Hill records reminds me absolutely of how the village operated then - and still does to this day. I confess I’m not a bird-watcher so, erm, so some of the descriptions of them went over my head a bit.

There are aspects of life in a country village might not be so appreciated by those who’ve always lived in a town. Perhaps that’s one of the reasons why Susan Hill wrote the book?

She doesn’t shy away from some of the harsher realities of life and death, nor from describing the drear weather from which there are fewer opportunities to escape compared to town life. I particularly liked her descriptions of the fenlands below the cottage. Whilst there’s a lot of detail about the community spirit there’s also an acknowledgement that for some this could feel too ‘closed in’, too nosy, too twee …

I was given the book as a Christmas present not long after it was published so I have one of the early hardback editions. It went missing for many years but not before I’d copied the red cabbage recipe which I still use to this day. I found the book again a few months ago when I was back in Worcestershire and read it over Easter.

For a few hours it took me back to a time in the past that I recognised and felt comfortable with, raised a chuckle or three when it reminded me of similar incidents from my childhood and prompted memories of people I’d all but forgotten.

Now I've found it again I think this book goes on my "read again every 2 or 3 years" pile.

Over to the rest of you …

patmoren

18-08-2012, 05:27

Another very different book which didn't take long to read but left me feeling dissatisified in some way. What a self centred, driven lady living in her perfect world. I could certainly not live in a village like that, too much of a rebel.
Very descriptive book with lots of good advice!! Made me feel quite guilty at times with my crab apple tree full of fruit for the birds, not being used for jelly and the elderflower trees living adorning the garden and not being garnered for various uses.
A village full of NIMBYS, taking advantage of modern progress but not allowing it to impinge on their surroundings.
I felt very sorry for Susan Hill feeling that she feels she has to make good use of everything and not let things pass her by, but very typical of a lot of English villages. 8/10

pabbers

18-08-2012, 11:18

Very different from anything I'd normally choose to read. I felt a bit like Pat to start with and thought Susan Hill was a bit precious and over wholesome for my liking. Then I checked the publication date and realised this was written around the time I had my first baby and that it was a time when more women could (if they wished) spend time at home being mother earth. Indeed I was heavily into home made stuff myself. So having forgiven her a degree of what had seemed like smugness, I re-evaluated my thoughts.

She does evoke village life very well - I live in a village myself and so much of what she said was familiar. When we moved to our house we "inherited" a gardener and it was only after several years and having taken over the gardening myself, that I found out he'd been 68 years old at the time. I bumped into him the other day - he's 92 now and still driving and he was reminiscing about wheeling our youngest round the garden in the wheelbarrow and how he was very into worms!

I must admit I'm a reader who likes a story and I'm impatient with lots of description so I did skim read quite a lot of countryside/bird description but read avidly the bits about people. I do like people!

I'm glad I read the book but still wouldn't choose to read something like that so for me 6/10 just because it's not the sort of thing that floats my boat.

BTW Sally - great review - you write really well IMHO.

RoastLamb

19-08-2012, 01:50

9/10. I LOVED this book.

Here's why: I wish I was Susan Hill and had her life. Growing up in grimy industrial Gateshead/Newcastle I yearned to live in a country village. I've been a big fan of her mystery novels for years now and I love the way she writes so getting a glimpse into her personal life was a treat for me. I loved the descriptions of all the seasons - so rich and evocative. I could see myself in her kitchen surrounded by her colourful fruit and grain jars, and all warm and snuggly smelling the delicious food she cooked - and then getting to eat it too!

On page 13 she writes about the reason she wanted to live in a cottage in a small village:
I wanted to give [Jessica her daughter] a rich treasure-store of country memories, sights and smells, sounds and colours, on which she could draw for the rest of her life. A friend of mine, who has lived in a north of England city for forty years, feeds off a memory of running through fields, up to her waist in buttercups, on a day's outing to the country when she was six years old. Well, I could have been that friend because I remember VIVIDLY the bank holidays we'd go to the countryside somewhere for a picnic and my sister and I would run through the flower meadows inhaling the sweet scents and we'd go searching for salamanders/frogs in the river/creek. Bliss! Plus we'd spend one week a year in a cottage or a farm in the Lake District or Castle Douglas in Scotland where we'd chase hares down the country roads, watch the rabbits frolic in and around their burrows (this was the time Watership Down was a huge bestseller and I LOVED rabbits as a result) and collect masses of buttercups and daisies. And bluebells in May:
By the gate to the bluebell copse, I stop... while the ground is a sea of that magical blue, and the scent is so fresh, under the encircling trees....The bluebell wood is also home to the rabbit wood, here it is that the baby rabbits scatter madly out of holes in hedge and ditch, down the bank and across the road, every time we pass in spring... BLISS!!!

Other highlights included the fabulous snowstorm that hit her village one winter. I could really imagine the entire event from start to finish, probably because we get a lot of snow in Canada but also I remember seeing it once in a movie.

Her recipes for red cabbage and walnut apple bread - how wonderful!

All the festivals she was lucky enough to be a part of. I wish I could experience even a hundreth of what she has. I used to watch All Creatures Great and Small as a kid and remember James Herriot having to judge all the animal and produce shows. I could imagine myself baking up a storm making my coffee cake and apple/raspberry crisp. Sigh.

She talks about how summer feels dead to her and is her least appealing season. I couldn't understand what she meant until this past week when I thought the same thing when I was weeding in my garden. It's been so hot here all the plants and grass are turning brown and ugly. Yes! I get it now.

Her pride she took in her vegetables, fruits and flowers. I feel like that about my roses but I'm having such bad luck in my veggie garden so I felt quite jealous as how well she did.

She talks about how her mother dislikes lilies echoing exactly how I feel about them:
My mother thought lilies morbid funeral flowers, and could not bear to look at their stiff, waxy whiteness, nor smell what to her was the sweet stench of decay and death. I also cannot stand the sight or smell of white lilies in my house.

tbc...

RoastLamb

19-08-2012, 02:15

She talks about a dinner party she throws at her home one summer evening:
Then, it was dark. We went back in to the garden and sat with out glasses full of the last of the beautiful wine, under the magic apple tree, talking, laughing, and then for a moment, all suddenly silent, as the moon rose and shone on all the fields, near and far, and from Lyke Wood, far below, we heard the owls cry, and the fox cubs yelp, and above our heads, a slight, warm breeze rustled the leaves of the apple tree like silk. It was the happiest of evenings. What I wouldn't do to experience that kind of evening (except I'd substitute the glass of wine with my favourite chocolates). That description reminded me that as a kid my favourite books were the Little Grey Rabbit series by Alison Uttley featuring Little Grey Rabbit, Hare and Squirrel plus an assortment of other woodland creatures, Moldy Warp, Rat, Wise Owl, etc. And her books filled that part of me who was desperate to live in the country. Magical. She mentions towards the end about the hedgehogs in her village, how they had to be careful that they poked around in the piles of leaves so they didn't get roasted come Guy Fawkes night. :lol: I remember doing the same thing in my Grandfather's garden, I was always on the lookout for hedgehogs.

One of the horrors of childhood food was runner beans, cut crossways but still thick and stringy, boiled for ages, and then covered in a gooey, savoury white sauce, and served with fatty shoulder of lamb... Yup, my mother cooked them in a similar way and I refuse to eat them to this day.

The W.I. bring and buy sale in Autumn. Fantastic! I just loved reading about all the stuff people in her village made or brought to sell: flowers
...alchemilla mollis...which others prize and covet, for its beauty when covered with thousands of water-drops, from dew or rain, caught like diamonds on a pin-cushions. Swoon! All the different kinds of veggies inc. dwarf burgundy French beans, cobnuts(?), field mushrooms, dark damsons. All the cakes, jars of preserves, and the quirky and interesting people who comprise her neighbours and friends. Btw I didn't even know W.I. still existed, I had assumed it was a WW II thing. All too quaint.

The only problem I had with my book was that is was a used copy as I couldn't get new and most of the pages have fallen out. Not great. Plus the black and white pictures of the four seasons are hard to see properly. And I get what Patmoren and Pabbers said about the preciousness and wholesomeness of it all but for me I'd have loved that life. But then again, if I'd had it maybe not so much? Sadly, I will never know.

I could go on an on about this book but suffice to say I really enjoyed it because it brought back the happiest memories from my childhood. Thanks for suggesting it, Sally! :clap: :clap: :clap:

patmoren

19-08-2012, 05:57

One of the occasions when familiarity breeds contempt. Having lived in towns, cities and the country side at varying times throughout my life, have experienced the good and bad of all. I love the fact that you harbour such wonderful feelings for country life Fiona.

RoastLamb

19-08-2012, 18:39

Probably coz I haven't experienced it, though. :rolling:

Linda

19-08-2012, 19:11

I'm sorry but I absolutely hated every minute I spent reading this book. I read the first section - Winter - straight away and didn't like it at all. So I let it rest for a while whilst I read other books that I did enjoy, then came back to it. I still didn't like it. So I carried on like this, reading bits of it then going away and reading something I did like, until I finally finished it this afternoon.

At the time it was written, books about country living were popular. Some were in the form of diaries (such as Diary of an Edwardian Lady and all the subsequent copies) and others were in the form of manuals (such as Food From Your Garden). I bought both of these books at the time, along with others of the same ilk, so I didn't have anything against the genre. This book tried to be both a diary and a manual, as it followed a year in the country, with all the various festivals and so on, and also gave detailed descriptions of the gardening tasks, jam-making and so on.

There are also several newspaper columns detailing life in either the country, the city or somewhere overseas. These are usually written in a lighthearted way and are entertaining. However a whole book of it, written without humour or warmth, is unutterably boring. The thing that struck me the most was that she seems to have no empathy with people at all - when she writes about people, it is only of their being good at growing dahlias or owning a very old cottage, with nothing about what they are like as people. There were no details of friendships made at the school gates or even of entertaining her daughter's friends. Only in the very last pages did she mention one person with something like empathy - that was 'Claudia'.

I felt that she was living a lie - she'd made up her mind what country life would be like and was living that out whilst being blind to all the people around her. Barley was obviously a large, thriving village as it had a school and other amenites - and yet she makes it sound like a tiny ancient village with just a few houses. What about the new houses and the council estate that it must have had?

But these faults would have been mere irritations if it were not for the fact that it was so appallingly badly written. Almost every sentence was ungrammatical in some way - and it wasn't in the deliberately chatty manner of some books but seemed totally unintentional. Some sentences consisted of only two or three words, whilst others went on and on for ever, containing many commas when they should have been broken up by full stops, colons and semicolons. I counted twenty-nine commas in one sentence. Of course I am aware that varying sentence length is a device used in novels to raise tension - as in thrillers - but this would not have been the intention here. The words were meant to convey the timeless peace of the countryside and so the narrative should have flowed easily, but it most definitely did not.

There was just one small paragraph that did speak to me - when she told how it felt to be in the ancient church. I feel this too - when I am in our 800 year old church I am aware of all the people through all the years that have stood in the same spot, worshipping God, sharing births, marriages and deaths, linking us all through the ages. However this was spoilt by an appalling typo in the preceding sentence - 'lynch gate' instead of 'lych gate'.

Whilst I was reading this book I read several others, including The Good Muslim by Tahmima Anam (excellent), Death Comes to Pemberley by PD James (not as good as I'd hoped), Sepulchre by Kate Mosse (tosh but she does it well) and The End of Mr Y by Scarlett Thomas (quirky and thought provoking). All very different books, some of which I enjoyed more than others, but at least all the authors could string a sentence together properly. Ms Hill unfortunately cannot - and that is the overwhelming reason why I couldn't like this book at all. It amazes me that it was ever published.

RoastLamb

19-08-2012, 19:32

I loved how it was written altho' I do agree there were altogether too many commas. The book editor at a publishing house I once worked at told me that people use way too many commas in general. Less is more was her motto. :rolling:

As far as the people go, I wonder if she didn't want to write too much about them because she had to live with them in the future and so wanted to be discreet? I don't know. I can't share your animosity towards her and the book. I haven't read any of her other non-fiction works but her fiction is top-notch. And she certainly has writing credentials to back her up. Of course this was one of her first books so she probably was a bit rough around the edges compared to her later work.

I do get what you say about injecting some humour but, again, I didn't really miss that myself. All I know is I could visualise everything she described and it gave me much joy.

So far I'm the only one other than Sally who really loves this book. Interesting.

Linda

19-08-2012, 19:43

She used enough commas for at least twenty books - maybe she'd won a million commas in a competition and had to use them all up! :lol:

RoastLamb

19-08-2012, 20:06

:lol: It's funny you should mention that because yesterday when I was typing up her quotes I kept thinking to myself, way too many commas here!!!

Sallydaisy

19-08-2012, 20:22

Intriguing to see how a book can be interpreted so differently.
I'll wait for t'others to chuck in their views (or bombshells) before making comment.
;)

hfwardhouse

19-08-2012, 20:24

:lol: at the comma comments .... I can't say I've noticed the over-use of commas .... but I'm afraid I haven't read it all and I'll be surprised if I go back to finish it. I started last weekend and read the first chapter and thought I'd never manage to read even the section on winter. It did improve a bit but it's really not the kind of book I enjoy reading and I have struggled to get even half way through. I don't usually read descriptions but this time I did and I must say her descriptive writing is very good and I did suggest to Esther she should read it just to see how to write descriptively (I'll obviously highlight the comma issue ;)!!!)

Living in a rural community in Scotland is very different from Englad - we don't have a community resembling Barley at all. I'm sure there are some villages which do have more community-spirit and interaction but it's not like that here. There is a WRI - Scotland's version of the WI - but I've resisted getting involved due to the requirement for taking turns making the teas .... really not my thing!!! We do work well together here but it's very different and folk in the noth east keep themselves very much to themselves. I couldn't identify with Susan's version of rural living at all - it'd be a nice thought but can't see it working well now ....

It's been a long time since I started a book and didn't finish it and I might come back to it, but it's unlikely. I'm not a big fan of non-fiction books and rarely read them.

RoastLamb

19-08-2012, 20:39

I did wonder myself at how many villages there are like this in the UK. I'm reading a book at the mo' called The Devil's Edge by Stephen Booth. He's a mystery writer and sets all his books in the Peak District. Now, I've never been to the Peak District but this book centres around a small village called Riddings which is the complete opposite to Susan's idyllic life.

I can imagine farm life is really tough. In his book Booth's main character grew up on a farm and he makes it sound really awful. But when I was little I used to have a pretend farm that I made with my sister and I bought lots of wee farm animals from Fenwick's dept store to stock it. My fave toy when I was growing up. Again, a city girl acting out her country fantasies, I'm afraid.

MurrayAOne

19-08-2012, 21:02

This is not normally the type of book I would read but this is one of the reasons I am so enjoying this book club and I did, on the whole, enjoy reading it. It was a perfect description of an idyllic country life. I enjoyed the scenic descriptions, the turning of the seasons and the different aspects of village life. I enjoyed reading the author’s trials and tribulations in her vegetable garden and her descriptions of what went right and what went wrong. This surprised me as I have never grown so much as a carrot but found myself taking mental notes of what I would and wouldn’t attempt based on her successes and failures and if I ever get a little vegetable plot this book is re-surfacing!

It seems that most of us have found a favourite part of this book and mine was the description of the cricket match. I may have always lived in a busy city but I grew up near a lovely park and the sights and sounds of the description of the cricket match within that boundary were exactly the same as I remember – minus the cows! I have spent many lovely holidays in the countryside and always look out for the local cricket pitch and pavilion.

There was the odd occasion when I became a little bored with the subject matter of certain chapters such as the various descriptions of animals and birds which I felt were a bit lengthy. My main criticism of the book would be the lack of human relationships. I agree with Pabbers in that I like to read about people and dialogue. Surely there must have been some interesting characters that could have been weaved into the story in a village such as Barley. If I am to answer my own criticism though, I would likely say that more people and dialogue would have surely impinged on the atmosphere the author created and would have resulted in a very different book. I would still have preferred it though!

I really enjoyed reading Roastlamb’s report and the memories it evoked in her childhood. I think this is one if the lovely things about this book and can be attributed to the expertise of the author. I think it was extremely well written. I cannot abide prescriptive writing and enjoyed the freedom with which she wrote her long sentences and felt she strung them together perfectly.

I found this a very pleasant read and I thank Sally for choosing it. 6/10.

MurrayAOne

19-08-2012, 21:11

I don't really get the problem with the commas. They're either needed or they're not. I also think long sentences are more evocative and served the author's purpose rather well. One of the other reasons I enjoyed the book was that I found myself warming to the author. I didn’t find her self-centred or smug at all; just a strong, independent woman happy and content with her lot.

RoastLamb

19-08-2012, 21:49

Hmm I suppose some of it was a bit lengthy and maybe repetitive altho' I loved the way she divided her book over four seasons. Referring to the lack of dialogue with the people around her, I would have liked some from her husband and daughter. They remained very much in the background, didn't they? App. her daughter, Jessica, is now a writer herself. I'd love to read her account of her childhood.

Great reviews from everyone this month! Really enjoyed reading everyone's reports. :clap: :clap: :clap:

MurrayAOne

19-08-2012, 21:54

Hmm I suppose some of it was a bit lengthy and maybe repetitive altho' I loved the way she divided her book over four seasons. Referring to the lack of dialogue with the people around her, I would have liked some from her husband and daughter. They remained very much in the background, didn't they? App. her daughter, Jessica, is now a writer herself. I'd love to read her account of her childhood.

Yes I was interested to read her daughter was a writer. I also studied a lot of her husband's books when I was studying Shakespeare!

pabbers

20-08-2012, 19:44

Well, RL there are indeed villages like this in the UK - I say UK because my village is in Wales. I think Sally's choice of book was in part triggered by a visit to my village in June. If only I had the patience and ability to write I'd give it a go but there'd be far more about the inhAbitants and activities which include all Susan's various festivals and WI but Also our annual pAntomime. Apologies for errors. Am on tiny phone keyboard in Croatia.

RoastLamb

20-08-2012, 23:35

I'd read your book, Pabbers. You should go for it!!! Panto! There's a blast from the past. Went to see Dick Emery at Newcastle in Aladdin. Awesome!

Linda

21-08-2012, 06:12

I know we're not supposed to discuss it yet but I just have to tell you - I got home from work yesterday to find that The Mistress of Nothing had arrived. I started reading it after dinner and couldn't put it down. I finished it at 1.25am. I loved it - for me, it's by far the best book chosen to date. Of course I'll read it again and write a proper review when it's time.

RoastLamb

21-08-2012, 13:24

Awww I'm so glad you liked it. I know I did. So much so I imediately went out and read the diaries on which it's based.

Linda

21-08-2012, 18:18

Yes, I was thinking of doing that too! :)

pabbers

21-08-2012, 20:09

I'd read your book, Pabbers. You should go for it!!! Panto! There's a blast from the past. Went to see Dick Emery at Newcastle in Aladdin. Awesome!Have I mentioned I'm a Geordie too? Born in Tynemouth. Went to school in Newcastle.

RoastLamb

21-08-2012, 23:55

Really? Didn't know that. I know KnightOwl is one. All the best people are Geordies! ;)

patmoren

22-08-2012, 07:10

Really? Didn't know that. I know KnightOwl is one. All the best people are Geordies! ;)
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

pabbers

22-08-2012, 11:02

Actually I think KO is from Scotland.....but we digress ;)

RoastLamb

22-08-2012, 12:47

I'm sure she told me she was from the NE. Maybe it was her mum instead.

hfwardhouse

22-08-2012, 20:03

KO is from Berwick upon Tweed .....

RoastLamb

22-08-2012, 20:10

Close enough. :lol: I'm sure she said her mum was from Jarrow or something. Will have to ask her.

pabbers

22-08-2012, 20:18

I must have got it wrong then.

hfwardhouse

06-09-2012, 16:25

I've been having a think about the next book .... as I chose 2nd in the last round so assume it'll be me again. There is one I'm mulling over and am hoping not a lot of you will already have read .... if you have then I'll have to have a re-think. It's a book that has been on my list of books to read for over a year but I just haven't got round to it yet. Hoping it's available in Canada Fiona.

Room by Emma Donoghue

Let me know if you've read it or if you can't get it - it's available on kindle Pat!

RoastLamb

06-09-2012, 16:56

Jane, I've read this book and it's AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I loved it so very much. Great choice.

MurrayAOne

06-09-2012, 19:13

I haven't read it. Sounds good to me!

Linda

06-09-2012, 19:17

Sounds interesting :)

pabbers

07-09-2012, 11:22

I'm game

patmoren

08-09-2012, 06:42

It is on Calibri Jane!!!

RoastLamb

08-09-2012, 15:36

I'm reading The Hunger Games for my book club on Monday night and I'm really struggling - again. :sad: I borrowed it from a friend who has a Kobo e-reader and I really don't like it. I don't think I'll finish at all.

hfwardhouse

08-09-2012, 17:47

It is on Calibri Jane!!!

I know Pat - one of the reasons I picked it - it's on my kindle waiting to be read! Thanks for the message though :)

KnightOwl

08-09-2012, 17:56

Really? Didn't know that. I know KnightOwl is one. All the best people are Geordies! ;)

Actually, I can't really claim to be a proper Geordie! Mum is from the North Tyne valley, although she lived in Newcastle for a while - and my Dad was born in Glasgow, as was I - same hospital in fact. So kind of half pseudo-Geordie, half Scots :)

Edit: grew up in Berwick though, so bottom line is - you're all right :)

-J-

09-09-2012, 07:30

Actually, I can't really claim to be a proper Geordie! Mum is from the North Tyne valley, although she lived in Newcastle for a while - and my Dad was born in Glasgow, as was I - same hospital in fact. So kind of half pseudo-Geordie, half Scots :)

Edit: grew up in Berwick though, so bottom line is - you're all right :)Southern or rotten row?

RoastLamb

11-09-2012, 02:08

I missed my book club tonite. First time ever. All coz of the scottish bloke playing tennis. Oh well. C'est la vie.

pabbers

11-09-2012, 10:25

I missed my book club tonite. First time ever. All coz of the scottish bloke playing tennis. Oh well. C'est la vie.
It's called "priorities", RL :lol:

hfwardhouse

11-09-2012, 11:29

:lol:

RoastLamb

21-09-2012, 14:20

hfwardhouse

21-09-2012, 14:35

Does she Fiona? That's interesting .... and I did have a try to edit the post but failed dismally :lol:

pabbers

21-09-2012, 15:16

One more week to go till we start discussing The Mistress of Nothing. Sept. 30th is the deadline.

Pabbers, could you please edit the first post to put in Jane's suggestion for October? Room by Emma Donoghue (fiction). (Btw Jane, Emma lives in Canada now.) I guess the deadline would be 11th November.

Hmm think we need Sally to do this as after I'd set it up she changed it to a table and I don't know how to do one of those on here.......sorry.

Must confess to struggling with the current book. Not very far through so need to get up a head of steam.

RoastLamb

21-09-2012, 17:02

Uh-oh, you're struggling? Oh no.

OK, I thought it was your post, didn't realize Sally had changed it.

I finished The Hunger Games (Part 1) for my other book club; initially I didn't care for it but by the end I was completely immersed and loved it. Halfway through the second book now.

pabbers

21-09-2012, 17:53

Am hoping that will happen to me with this book. I did start to get engrossed this afternoon but then life interrupted in the form of Mr P calling from cricket tour to say he was in A&E - fell over in a fountain (yes you did read correctly) and needs 2 stitches in his forehead. Honestly and I thought the kids were the ones we had to worry about! Suggested I went to get him (he's only in Bristol so not too far from Cardiff) but no he's soldiering on.

Anyway top and bottom of it is that I haven't really had any quality time to devote to this book and I often find that if I get constant interruptions with a book I never really get into it.

Linda

21-09-2012, 18:00

I said I'd re-read it before discussing - I read it so fast the first time as I loved it - but I'm so stuck in all the millions of things to do to organise my house move that I don't have time to read anything at the moment. And it seems I'll be without phone or internet for a while when a move as I'm changing supplier and they won't action my order until we complete!

patmoren

21-09-2012, 18:54

Sallydaisy

21-09-2012, 19:17

I only ordered the book today so it's probably going to get a very quick read.
:p

RoastLamb

21-09-2012, 20:04

I just bought the DVDs of the Hunger Games after reading the books.

Can't wait to see the movie. Could have watched it on the plane in the summer but wanted to read the book first.

Pabbers, he fell over a fountain??????????????? Blimey!

Sallydaisy

21-09-2012, 20:14

Pabbers, could you please edit the first post to put in Jane's suggestion for October? Room by Emma Donoghue (fiction). (Btw Jane, Emma lives in Canada now.) I guess the deadline would be 11th November.
Done - but made the deadline the 6 weeks so middle of November - the 15th.

hfwardhouse

21-09-2012, 21:44

:thanks: Sally :)

pabbers

21-09-2012, 22:01

Thanks, Sally. Did I say he fell over a fountain RL - no much more embarrassing - he'd decided to paddle in it and fell over IN it............:doh:

RoastLamb

22-09-2012, 00:01

:lol:

Linda

23-09-2012, 11:39

I wasn't going to buy the next book until after moving, but I just popped into Smith's and they had it so I bought it!

Linda

23-09-2012, 22:36

I just finished Room. I couldn't put it down (well, I had to put it down to cook a roast dinner and to watch Downton, but otherwise I haven't put it down since I started it). Amazing book.

RoastLamb

23-09-2012, 22:50

Yes, I agree. I LOVED Room. They're making a movie, I believe.

hfwardhouse

24-09-2012, 09:45

:lol: aren't you two getting a bit ahead of yourselves reading the next book before we've even discussed the last one?!

RoastLamb

24-09-2012, 13:32

Yes we are but I read it ages ago. I think Linda would be happy with a new book every week never mind this 6 weeks malarkey. :rolling:

pabbers

25-09-2012, 08:41

Yes we are but I read it ages ago. I think Linda would be happy with a new book every week never mind this 6 weeks malarkey. :rolling:

Nay.....methinks every DAY!!! :lol:

hfwardhouse

25-09-2012, 09:25

:lol:

Linda

25-09-2012, 17:38

:shamed:

patmoren

01-10-2012, 19:41

I am afraid I will not be able to participate in the next discussion. Read the book ages ago but have just moved everything around to find somewhere to put everything from the kitchen and can't find either the book or my notes. If I have a brainstorm as to where I have put them, will get back to you. Maybe when I read other peoples comment I might remember the book but couldn't even remember the name until I looked on here, sorry.

RoastLamb

01-10-2012, 19:52

Oh shoot. Totally forgot it was today. Will get right on it.

RoastLamb

02-10-2012, 17:20

Ok it's been several months since I read this so I am going to be sneaky and post an actual book review here instead of my usual summary. I read many reviews and I think this is the best one (The Guardian, from August 2009):

The Mistress of Nothing
by Kate Pullinger

The Mistress of Nothing draws its inspiration from the life of Lucie, Lady Duff Gordon, Victorian writer, traveller and highly unconventional intellectual, whose celebrated salons were attended by Tennyson, Thackeray and George Meredith. In 1862, at the age of 40, creeping tuberculosis led Duff Gordon to leave her beloved husband and children in England and travel to Egypt, where it was hoped that the hot, dry climate would speed her recovery.

The Duff Gordons, though well connected, were not wealthy, and Lucie was able to travel with only one servant, her maid Sally Naldrett. Turning her back on the English community, she settled in Luxor, where she cut her hair, exchanged her corsets for native male dress, and learned to speak and write Arabic. Though she was not always able to pay her servants properly, Lucie allowed them equally uncommon levels of freedom. However, when the unmarried Sally presumed to break one of the 19th century's strictest taboos, Lucie exhibited none of her habitual broadmindedness. Furious and implacable, she demanded that Sally leave the household and return, penniless and without references, to England.

Lucie's letters from Egypt, later published, sparkled with her wit, passion and considerable rage at the abuses of the ruling Ottoman dynasty, giving the lie to the cliché of the decorous and submissive Victorian wife. They also provide irresistible provender for the novelist, though Pullinger claims to have been acutely aware of the difficulties inherent in tackling such a project. The Mistress of Nothing, her fourth novel, has been more than 10 years in the writing, one of those years apparently yielding only a single page. According to Pullinger, her endeavours were hampered by an aversion to historical fiction generally; she worried in particular about the clumsy deployment of research and the dangers of pastiche.

There is little cause for concern on either of these fronts. Pullinger quotes from Duff Gordon's letters on several occasions, but Lucie herself is not the centre of this tale. Instead the story is told from the point of view of Sally, who finds herself caught between her devotion to her mistress and her desire for a life of her own in a country that she has come to love. Sally is no intellectual and certainly no politician; Lucie's perspectives and preoccupations are not hers.

As for overwhelming the reader with research, if anything the novel errs too much on the opposite side. The heat and exoticism of 19th-century Egypt are convincingly conjured, but the narrative is less successful in evoking a powerful sense of the conventions and expectations of its time, not only socially but morally and politically, so that the full impact of Sally's story fails to hit home. Not nearly enough is made of how truly extraordinary Duff Gordon's household in Luxor was by the standards of her day. Though she was required to perform certain duties, Sally travelled with her mistress almost as her companion, conversing with her, reading with her, even eating with her in the evenings. She was also granted a remarkable degree of independence, permitted to come and go very much as she pleased. And yet, though Sally admits that this is "unusual", the eccentricity of the arrangements seems to pass largely unobserved by Lucie's many visitors. Nor do we get much sense of the oppressive Victorian attitudes to women that Duff Gordon is so eager to escape. When in the end she falls back upon their strictures to impose exile on her servant, they seem to come out of nowhere.

Finally, however, it is less the opacity of historical context that constrains this novel than Sally's elusiveness as a character. Throughout she oscillates between a docile subservience and a sense of entitlement; her apparent intelligence and curiosity sit awkwardly with her passivity, her quest for self-education with her unquestioning nature. We are told of long, intimate conversations with her Egyptian confidante, but are permitted to eavesdrop on too few.

The reader is left uncertain whether Pullinger considers Sally the heroine of a great love story, the victim of aristocratic whim or the engineer of her own hubristic downfall. Certainly Sally's aggrieved outrage at her mistress's failures to set aside the fundamental expectations of the society in which both she and Lucie must make their lives strikes an uncomfortable note. In Egypt, aware that her life has changed unrecognisably, Sally asks: "Does this mean I am no longer the same person?" Knowing her as imperfectly as we do, it is a question we are simply not able to answer.

RoastLamb

02-10-2012, 17:31

I absolutely loved this book but at the end I found myself searching for answers. What happened to Sally really when she left Lady Duff Gordon? Where did she go, what happened to her child? It just killed me that there's no actual information out there. I also wanted to read Lucie's Letters from Egypt but I ended up reading her biography instead (written by Katherine Frank) which was utterly fascinating.

I guess the most surprising element of this book is Sally's relationship with the manservant, Omar, and her subsequent pregnancy and all the kerfuffle that it entailed. In this day and age it's nothing really, but back then with Victorian morals the way they were it was a HUGE deal. I found it interesting how his family didn't seem to care esp. his wife because men are allowed more than one wife in his culture (altho' this is supposition because we don't actually know their point of view, only Lucie's.).

All the cultural and class differences fascinate me as do the exotic location and the hypocrisy displayed by Lucie who clearly does not blame Omar for what has happened at all. No, he gets away scot-free and it's Sally who has to pay for her "crime". Quite astonishing.

I also didn't quite get Lucie being away from her family for so long - when she had such a young daughter and son at home. They hardly visited with each other and I just cannot imagine being away from my own children and husband altho' I realize she had to live in Egypt to keep her consumption at bay.

patmoren

02-10-2012, 21:28

I've found it!!
I enjoyed reading this book, light and easy to read. Very typical of the hieracy of the times.I felt very much at home as I lived in Egypt for several years in my youth. Although some years after the setting for the story, not much had changed.
It is typical that a lot was known of Lucie Duff Gordon and very little opf Sally and Omar, although her ladyship owed her extended life to both of them. So pleased that their lives were happy in the end. 8/10

RoastLamb

02-10-2012, 21:59

Pat, you lived in Egypt? How come and what was it like?

hfwardhouse

03-10-2012, 08:00

Pat, you lived in Egypt? How come and what was it like?

I'd love to hear about that too Pat :)

I'm at work so will post my thoughts later - but I loved the book too!

hfwardhouse

03-10-2012, 15:52

Home now so here are my thoughts!

The Mistress of Nothing was a hugely enjoyable book – I wasn’t sure what to expect but I’ve read similar books in the past and was soon sucked into the story. The main characters were mainly likeable although Lady Duff Gordon became less so as her behaviour towards Sally was so deplorable. I could understand her being angry about it, but to completely shut her out afterwards after all the years of service and everything she had done was totally incredible. I just couldn’t understand it – but I have come to the conclusion that she was probably jealous of Sally’s happiness when her own life was falling apart thanks to the illness she was suffering from. Sally was incredibly brave to defy her and stay in Egypt, but I think I would’ve done the same thing – I certainly couldn’t have handed my child over to my husband’s family and left the country – I don’t even think I could’ve handed him over and left him for the month as she did – so hard. Omar was a challenging character but I liked him – I think he was so torn between his loyalty to Sally and his loyalty to his employer – it was a very difficult situation being stuck between a rock and a hard place. He didn’t do the right thing in my opinion – I think I would have defied my employer and allowed Sally to move in with my family if I’d been him – let’s face it, would she ever have found out? I think not. Anyway, it all turned out alright in the end. I do wonder though what happened after Lady Duff Gordon’s death!
9/10

Linda

03-10-2012, 19:24

I was going to read the book again, as it's several weeks since I've read it, but it's been packed ready to move! I absolutely loved this book. Of course there were bits that didn't ring quite right, but overall it was a really good read. I thought the author had done really well in taking a known true story and making a novel about the bits that were unclear. This of course is what all the best historical novelists do.

Lady Duff Gordon acted in a bohemian way for a lot of the novel, but when her servant became pregnant she acted in exactly the way any other employer of her class in her time would have done. Sadly. Sally actually had a much better outcome than girls in her situation at that time would normally have done. She would have been an outcast, and probably ended up as a prostitute. Although it was in some ways sad that she couldn't live with her husband, in a way it was better for her, because she still had her freedom. If she had become a member of his household she would have been subject to purdah and would never have been allowed to leave the house. So in a way she had the best of both worlds.

I'm really glad RL chose this book. And that the following book, Room, is so wonderful. Because until now I had been thinking that I was mistaken in joining this book club as nobody seemed to have similar tastes in books to me. But this book and Room were both fantastic so I'm very glad to continue in the book club.

One thing - I had decided some time ago on my next book, when it is time for me to choose again. But it is set in Egypt, not too many years after this book, so I wonder whether people might not be so keen on revisiting 100-year-old Egypt again? (Although it is very different as written by an Egyptian about the life of Egyptians at that time.)

pabbers

04-10-2012, 08:24

hfwardhouse

04-10-2012, 13:31

:shocked: :sofa:

Hawkeye

04-10-2012, 15:42

I'm poised to censor the discussion...

pabbers

04-10-2012, 15:49

I'm poised to censor the discussion...

It's a pre-condition of censorship that you read the book! ;)

Hawkeye

04-10-2012, 15:54

I've been told all about it by the ladies at work, think I'll stick to The Story Of O...

RoastLamb

04-10-2012, 16:10

Man, I've been avoiding picking up that book. It's had such bad reviews. And my other book club vetoed against it. :rolling: This means I'm actually going to have to buy it. Shudder.

patmoren

04-10-2012, 16:45

You go for it Pat. Kindle edition is £3.46 on Amazon.
Re Egypt, my father was in the RAF and was posted to Egypt in 1947. We were there until 1952 when we were evacuated from the middle of the desert in a Hastings bomber because of the Suez Crisis. Very long story and not the appropriate place to tell it.

MurrayAOne

04-10-2012, 18:54

Will try to get around to doing my review soon. Work is manic and I just collapse in a heap when I get home.

Linda - I hope you won't give up because of the lack of similar tastes. Surely that's what a book club is about, trying different things. Some we'll like and some we won't. On that note I'm going to drop the bombshell. I've thought long and hard about it but have decided to bite the bullet. My next choice is............Fifty Shades of Grey.............:getcoat:. To be read with an open mind and not condemned out of hand without at least dipping into it! If people really object (but I can assure you it IS at heart a romance) then I'll think again.

Fine by me. I'll get to see what all the fuss is about! My review for Mistress of Nothing will be a bit delayed I'm afraid as have been really busy and not had much time to read. Also someone became a Grand Slam champion. Took up a bit of my time! Am trying to avoid reading the other reviews until I've finished the book. It's very tempting to read them though!

pabbers

05-10-2012, 18:10

Man, I've been avoiding picking up that book. It's had such bad reviews. And my other book club vetoed against it. :rolling: This means I'm actually going to have to buy it. Shudder.
Interesting that people are prepared to prejudge things to the extent they won't even read them. If I decided which films to go and see based on half of the reviews they get, then I'd probably never watch anything. I understand that the reviews on 50 Shades have actually been pretty equally divided, it's just that the media (remember them - responsible for the spread of vitriol about Andy's England comment?) have chosen to highlight the negative ones. I think some writers may be envious of the success it's had........

Still I'll be interested to see what people think.

Oh and I've just ordered Room from Amazon, anticipated delivery date..........24 October :shocked:. That's the day before I head off to Portugal so I hope it does arrive by then.

RoastLamb

05-10-2012, 18:28

Well I can't wait to see what I think about it, that's for sure. ;)

Lizzim

05-10-2012, 18:53

One of the girls at work has been reading it....I kept teasing her cos she was reading it during lunch :)

pabbers

06-10-2012, 10:42

OK - at last I can do my review.

I think I said I was struggling with this book and indeed I was; too much description; arabic scattered here and there which really didn't seem to add anything and often seemed to be without translation. Phrases such as "I wouldn't have it any other way" which feel very modern to me......"I wouldnt have it otherwise" might have rung more true. I was tired of the laboured "my lady" this and "my lady" that. But then at last...........page 80 in my edition...........I was hooked. From the (rather unbelievable) moment that Sally fell into Omar's arms I felt we had a story at long last. I didn't think it was very credible but it held romantic old me in its grip and I enjoyed the rest of the book. I felt happy with the outcome. Sally's child had a good home and she was able to see him regularly but it would never have worked for her to go and live in Omar's household. The culture would have been too different and Sally is at heart a bit of a free spirit. There were some unpalatable contradictions in mores......such as "my lady" rejecting Sally (I agree probably more out of envy than principle), Sally feeling outraged at it, yet happy to have an affair with another woman's husband (she didn't appear to know at first that Omar could have more than one wife). I also thought the way she fell into bed with him so easily wasn't very credible.

Not a book I would normally read, so I'm glad I'm in this club and did read it.......7/10 from me.

pabbers

15-10-2012, 09:16

Morning all. Room arrived at the end of last week. I started it on Friday. I'm really sorry all, but I'm going to have to sit this one out. No criticism of the choice or book, just the wrong book at the wrong time for me. I remembered having heard reviews on the radio when it arrived and having read a few pages, I just can't face it at the moment. I have some books like that that sit on my shelf for ages before I am in the right frame of mind to read them. The Life of Pi and the Kite Runner are two that spring to mind, both of which I enjoyed when I eventually read them. I think the Jimmy Savile thing is having some effect on how I feel, plus my spirits are a bit low, as Mr P's close colleague (same age and extremely sporty and healthy) had a heart attack just over a week ago and is in a medically induced coma, from which they've attempted to bring him around, only for him to suffer epileptic fits. So I just need to read something light and uplifting at the moment. Sorry.

RoastLamb

15-10-2012, 12:55

Sorry Pat! Hope Mr P's friend recovers OK. How awful. :grouphug:

PS Must admit I felt the same way about The Shipping News.

patmoren

15-10-2012, 13:50

Sympathise with your views, with my paediatric background I found Room very difficult and almost gave up several times.

pabbers

16-10-2012, 12:57

Sadly Mr P's colleague died this morning. Probably for the best for him but a shock to all those left behind.

RoastLamb

16-10-2012, 13:01

Oh no, so very sorry!!! :grouphug: :flowers:

Sallydaisy

16-10-2012, 15:27

Sadly Mr P's colleague died this morning. Probably for the best for him but a shock to all those left behind.
That's very sad news; thinking of you.
:grouphug:

MurrayAOne

16-10-2012, 18:15

Sorry to hear this sad news Pat. Thinking of you.

Lizzim

16-10-2012, 18:15

So sorry Pat :grouphug:

hfwardhouse

16-10-2012, 18:58

:grouphug: Pat

patmoren

16-10-2012, 21:34

Sorry to hear that Pat but as you say probably a blessing in disguise.

Linda

19-10-2012, 19:42

Sorry to hear about Mr P's colleague, Pat :grouphug:

patmoren

27-10-2012, 18:32

Just finshed reading Fifty shades of grey. Wow!!!

RoastLamb

27-10-2012, 19:11

hfwardhouse

27-10-2012, 19:38

Haven't bought it yet. Hoping my hubby's bought me an Amazon gift certificate for my b-day but won't find out until dinner time.

Just wondering if there are any more reviews for A Mistress of Nothing coming in?

We should start to talk about Room middle of November, let's say Nov. 14th.

Then Fifty Shades of Grey around New Year's Day. Let's say Jan. 2nd?

The table in the first post says we've to finish Room by the 15th November and discuss from 16th to 30th .... then apparently Linda's next to choose - going on the same rota as the first round - so we won't actually be reading 50 Shades/reviewing it till about February :shocked:

Linda

27-10-2012, 19:43

I haven't bought 50 shades yet - I'm going to go round the charity shops looking for it; last time I looked in a charity shop they had at least a dozen copies of The Da Vinci Code, so that's obviously where popular but badly written books end up.

I'll be away when Room is discussed. Should I post my review before I go or wait till I get back?

I've just re-read one of my favourite books, possibly my favourite book of all time - Palace Walk by Naguib Mahfouz. I intend to make that my next book club selection. But I have to warn you, you are unlikely to find it secondhand - because it is a book that is worth reading again and again and again.

hfwardhouse

27-10-2012, 19:57

I'll go and look online now Linda - I would post your review when you get back in case anyone hasn't read it before you go!

Just found it on ebay for 99p with £1.96 postage so going to buy it before it's gone ;)

MurrayAOne

27-10-2012, 20:55

MurrayAOne

27-10-2012, 21:00

patmoren

27-10-2012, 21:06

Just bought Lindas' one on Amazon for £2.81, not on Kinmdle un fortunately.

RoastLamb

28-10-2012, 15:37

The table in the first post says we've to finish Room by the 15th November and discuss from 16th to 30th .... then apparently Linda's next to choose - going on the same rota as the first round - so we won't actually be reading 50 Shades/reviewing it till about February :shocked:

Ok thanks! Should have checked the first post. Keep forgetting to. So Linda's choice will be January then Pabbers in middle of February? OK. Hopefully Sally can edit it when she gets back.

I was really disappointed that I didn't get a gift card for Amazon for my b-day so now I have to fork out for a huge list of books I've been collecting since the summer on my own. Poo! I did get a gift card for itunes which I spent last night on 20 songs. So that's good.

For my other book club our next choice is Emma Donoghue's latest book, Astray.

pabbers

30-10-2012, 16:20

Just finshed reading Fifty shades of grey. Wow!!!
Would that be a good or bad wow? Guess I'll have to wait till Feb.
Perhaps you could do yoit review now Linda. Save you the trouble of reading it. And I could do mine for yours. Nothing like an open mind!

RoastLamb

30-10-2012, 17:07

I just bought 13 books yesterday on Amazon, inc. Pabbers' and Linda's choices. Hope they last me for quite a while.

Linda

30-10-2012, 20:29

Perhaps you could do yoit review now Linda. Save you the trouble of reading it. And I could do mine for yours. Nothing like an open mind!

Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit ;)

MurrayAOne

06-11-2012, 22:37

Apologies for my late review but I have finally managed to do it.

This is not a book I would normally choose to read so again I am glad I’m in this club as I feel it is good to read outside of my normal choice. For the most part I enjoyed reading it but there were too many instances of the story I found implausible. This does not normally bother me with 100% fiction as I am happy to suspend my belief and go with the flow. But the mixture of fact and fiction jarred with me really. I feel that there is a certain responsibility in these types of novels that are based on real people and such a large part of the novel was fiction I felt a certain sympathy with characters when negative acts/dialogue were attributed to them.

Initially I thought I would feel angered by the book from synopses I had read and the treatment of Sally and prepared myself for a woman downtrodden by class and circumstance. But surprisingly it soon became clear that Sally, and Omar , – the fictional characters - must bear quite a bit of responsibility for their own plight. Not to the eventual extent obviously – she was treated with extreme callousness by her employer and not much better by Omar. But my goodness did they willingly disappear into their own world regardless of consequence. The abundance of sand was rather advantageous for them as they spent most of the time with their heads buried in it. I did not particularly like Omar or – again I feel obliged to stipulate - the fictional character Omar. It seemed to me that he used Sally and any efforts on his part to stand by her were out of an innate duty rather than love; efforts that ceased at the threat of dismissal from his post. Very loving. Also, when she had had her baby and they meet up again on Lady Duff Gordon’s boat, he waited until AFTER they had slept together before asking, ‘Why have you come here?’ Charming! Cake and eat it. The cultural differences are no more apparent than here. Yes he stood by her but I feel that not to do so, for him, would bring shame onto HIM. This is a selfish reason and not a good motive for a relationship. Notwithstanding his poor wife! But again this is a cultural issue and a whole different ball game!

Overall though I felt the novel was well written and held my interest. As I say my biggest issue was the mixture of fact and fiction; this I did not enjoy, but I am glad I read the book and thank RoastLamb for choosing it. 5/10

patmoren

19-11-2012, 19:47

The discussion date for the last book is well past!! This is all becoming very long winded.

hfwardhouse

19-11-2012, 20:01

Sorry Pat - I am remembering about it, but haven't had a second to get on here the last few days - I have my intro prepared so will try and post it tonight.

Linda

19-11-2012, 20:14

I needn't have been worried about being late with my review then! :rolling:

hfwardhouse

19-11-2012, 20:34

No indeed Linda ... in fact I was of course just waiting for your safe return before posting ;)

Here goes ....

Room by Emma Donoghue begins with the 2 main characters, Jack and his Mum (Ma) waking to another new day (Jack’s 5th birthday) in the room they’ve been imprisoned in for all of Jack’s life. The story is in the first person from Jack’s point of view and although he’s a very bright young lad, it’s obvious that having been stuck in this one place all of his life, his learning has been very much restricted to what his mother has been able to share with him. He’s still “having some” (breast milk) sometimes several times a day, and his mother suffers terribly from bad teeth from having been stuck in the room for so many years. Eventually she tells Jack the story of her kidnap at the age of 19, 7 years before. Jack is put to sleep in the wardrobe so that “Old Nick” who is the man holding them prisoner, doesn’t see him. Old Nick visits Jack’s mother regularly, bringing supplies, but he can just as easily cut everything off if he’s unhappy with Jack’s mother – as he does by turning off the power and withholding delivery of food supplies for a few days. At this point, an escape plan is hatched, which turns out to be successful – Jack finds “outside” a very daunting place indeed – he didn’t realise that the images he was seeing on the television were actually real people and places and he didn’t believe his mother initially when she told him about the outside world.
Jack’s Mum also finds being back in the real world a big challenge. Meeting up with her parents again – her mum has remarried and Jack’s Mum finds that hard to deal with. Her father is in Australia having left home after her kidnap, believing she was dead. Getting to know family members again is a real challenge for her – and for Jack, getting to know his Grandparents and his uncle, aunt and cousins. He has no concept of things in the real world, and when he’s taken to a shopping mall, his uncle ends up buying him a book because he took it anyway, not realising things have to be paid for. Jack’s Mum attempts suicide which results in Jack going to live with his grandmother and steppa as he calls her new husband. Getting Jack to go to the playpark is a challenge. He’s scared of the other kids, worried it might rain on him, and finds the outside world really daunting.
At last, his Mum is well enough for them to move into a new apartment. The book ends with Jack insisting on a return visit to “Room” – he’s astonished at how small it is, how different it looks now he’s experienced things “outside”. I think he’ll be alright, but it’ll be a challenge for him.

hfwardhouse

19-11-2012, 20:35

I wasn't sure what I'd think of the book but I really enjoyed it - loved it in fact ... 9/10 for me

Linda

19-11-2012, 20:54

I thought this was an amazing book. Of course the subject matter seems rather daunting but somehow it is much easier to cope with when the story is being told by a five year old child. The device of using a child as narrator is quite often used in novels - it is especially useful in keeping things back from the reader (as they are things that a child wouldn't know) which enables the narrative to unfold gradually. However it can be difficult - the author needs to write well so as to satisfy the reader, and yet in a simple way so that it can be believed that it is a child speaking. I think Ms Donoghue achieved the balance very well.

I found the telling of the life inside the room and also the telling of their getting to know the world outside really interesting, but I found the mechanics of the actual escape to be a bit unbelievable. She ends the novel well, at a point of optimism.

Overall I really enjoyed the book and would also give it 9/10.

patmoren

19-11-2012, 21:22

I found this extemely difficult book to read with my 40 years background of nursing children. I knew how what was happening was going to affect Jack and my role as a childrens advocate, made it very difficult to read and being powerless to help, became very distressing. Watching the plot unfold almost made me give up finishing it but I perservered.
It was a well written book but I felt the ending was a cop out as it didn't address the longer term effects for both mother and child and the visit to the room would hardly have had the effect portrayed no matter how bright the child .I also thought it ended rather abruptly and the optimism was probably misplaced. 7/10

RoastLamb

19-11-2012, 23:34

I loved this book and I really hope it gets made into a movie. I read it around the time of the American woman Jaycee Dugard being found after being held captive for 18 years, she too had given birth to her captor's children. The first part of being inside the room was totally heartbreaking on one hand but incredible on the other. The claustrophobia vs the way she made this little room a her son's whole life inc. a school room. She was so resourceful. Then the second part when she escapes their prison and has to figure out life on the outside all over again not just for her but her son too. I found the behaviours of all her family and the other people on the outside utterly fascinating. Very well-written too.

10/10

pabbers

20-11-2012, 12:30

I know I wimped out of this one but reading your reviews has given me the encouragement to read it after all. Maybe not immediately - Linda's is next (need to trawl back through the thread to find it, then I'll put it in the first post).

Pat you obviously had a very interesting career. I had a tiny bit of experience of Child Care Law when I was in practice and found it very difficult to handle. Obviously some family's were dreadful and the children were better off in care but some of the time I felt the children were actually loved but were in a family situation that the middle class lawyers and social workers thought was unacceptable to them. So maybe the standard of cleanliness etc wasn't up to their standards. Then I found things confusing and hard to reconcile with my gut feeling.

Linda

24-11-2012, 17:23

I got 50 Shades of Grey in a charity shop today. It was £3. The next charity shop I looked in had all three books for £1 each! Still, it was for a good cause.

I also browsed the proper bookshops and saw a book called The Seamstress which I think I will get. Has anyone read it?

pabbers

25-11-2012, 18:46

MurrayAOne

25-11-2012, 20:19

I'm still finishing Room as I was a bit behind with the last one. Nearly caught up now though so will post soon.

pabbers

25-11-2012, 21:56

Palace Walk has just arrived while I was away for the weekend. Must have been left on the doorstep as it was in the kitchen, so kindly neighbour with key must have spotted it and taken it in so our absence wasn't evident to potential burglars!

RoastLamb

25-11-2012, 23:30

I've got the next two books. For my local book club (meeting tomorrow night) we had to read Emma Donoghue's latest: Astray. Book of short stories. I didn't hate it but also I didn't love it. Mixed feelings. I've never been into short stories tbh.

Just finished Susan Hill's latest called Betrayal of Trust. Simon Serrailler mystery. Very interesting themes about dying, assisted suicide and hospice care running alongside the actual mystery part.

Linda

26-11-2012, 20:25

I've never been into short stories either. I like a nice long novel.

After buying 50 Shades on Saturday, I started to read it and got about a third of the way through. When I went to church yesterday I looked up at the lovely stained glass window of Jesus, where he always looks on me so benevolently, and I felt that he was giving me a disapproving look. I was sure that it was because of the book and felt guilty. But when I got home I read the rest of it. Hopefully all will be fine when I see Jesus next Sunday. I won't say anything about the book itself yet as it's several weeks till we're due to discuss it.

RoastLamb

26-11-2012, 20:47

:lol: Linda! I still can't bring myself to even look at it. But I know I will have to eventually.

hfwardhouse

26-11-2012, 21:11

:lol: Linda ..... I've not looked at it either .... it's on my kindle!

pabbers

27-11-2012, 12:50

Have started Palace Walk..........hooked after the first few pages BUT........it's very small print and a LOT of pages so hope slow old me can finish it in time! :barmy:

hfwardhouse

27-11-2012, 12:54

Oh heck maybe I should start that instead of the next in the Alex Cross series but I'm loving re-reading them and I don't want to stop :lol:

pabbers

27-11-2012, 13:59

RoastLamb

12-12-2012, 14:05

I am really struggling with Palace Walk. Every time I go to read it I make it through one page then fall asleep. I just can't get into it and when I put it down I don't want to pick it back up. Sigh. Still, I will finish it no matter what. Hopefully it'll get better.

pabbers

12-12-2012, 17:48

Am still enjoying it but can't get a long stretch at it, so only up to about page 90 so far.

MurrayAOne

12-12-2012, 21:51

My review for 'Room'. I have now nearly caught up!

I thought this was an excellent book. On reading the synopsis I thought I would struggle with the story and in parts it was difficult. When it became obvious what was about to happen I could hardly turn the page. However the author never took the most gruesome aspects of the story to a graphic level and so therefore it was just bearable. It held my interest from beginning to end due to both the unusual storyline and excellent writing. I had never read a book by this author before but I will certainly read more. Her brilliant interpretation of a five year old’s authorial voice, in such unique circumstances, was fascinating and totally believable. I was fascinated from the first page when half a dozen nouns had been personlised by Jack, presumably as, aside from his mother, he had no way of forming human relationships. These things were not merely objects to Jack but important ‘others’ in his life. Indeed some objects were masculine and some feminine. Fascinating.

It is extremely difficult to imagine the life that mother and son lived for so many years under such dreadful circumstances. But it became apparent, as it would, that to Jack his life was normal as he knew no other. Indeed the ‘Outside’ to him was initially far scarier than ‘room’ which to him was his security.

The gradual introduction of the world to Jack and the re-emergence into it by his mother was another fascinating aspect of this book and appeared to be excellently researched. I was satisfied with the way the author ended the novel as I felt it was appropriate after their return visit. I agree the ending did seem optimistic given the experiences of both mother and son but I much prefer that sort of outlook than the alternative. Given the intelligence and strength of character of the mother and the family support she had it may not be too far fetched to hope that the characters went on to lead a normal life.

Again I would never have read this book had I not been in this book club and so I thank hfwardhouse for choosing it. 9/10

Linda

13-12-2012, 14:13

I'm going to join a local book club. They are reading The Snow Child for their January meeting. I think I'll have to get a Kindle in order to save money on all these books I'm buying (normally I mainly get books from charity shops, but if I have to get a particular book then I need to get it from Amazon unless I just happen to see it in a charity shop).

I've just re-read another of my old favourites, Earthly Powers by Anthony Burgess. But it's a very long book to read, so don't worry, I won't make it my next recommendation! Am currently reading A Spot of Bother by Mark Haddon. Have also bought a book from Amazon by Isabelle Allende in Spanish in the hope that reading it will improve my Spanish.

RoastLamb

28-12-2012, 16:03

I finished Palace Walk last night. WHAT A RELIEF. Took me forever. I only have a week to read my other book club selection but that was my choice so I know I will like it.

Anyway, I have lots to say about this book so roll on Jan. 1st.

Linda

28-12-2012, 17:46

So I have to start off the reviewing on Tuesday?

My book for the local book club I've just joined arrived today: The Snow Child. We're discussing it on the 11th. But first I must finish my current book - I decided to re-read a couple of Margaret Atwoods, so I first re-read Alias Grace and now I'm re-reading The Silent Assassin. Both brilliant books.

hfwardhouse

28-12-2012, 19:53

Oh heck, I read the first chapter and never got any further .... I better go and dig it out, think it got tidied away for Christmas :shamed:

RoastLamb

29-12-2012, 00:09

Not a big Atwood fan but I did read Alias Grace and liked it.

pabbers

29-12-2012, 10:45

Am about 4/5 of the way through Palace Walk so may not finish on time but am still enjoying it.

patmoren

29-12-2012, 14:32

I finshed Palace Walk some weeks ago and struggled with it. Read another book in between.

Linda

01-01-2013, 11:43

I guess it’s time for my review of Palace Walk!

Firstly, a little background info on the author, Naguib Mahfouz. He was brought up in a strict Muslim family in the same area of Cairo in which the book is set. One of his first memories was seeing British soldiers fire on demonstrators during the 1919 Egyptian uprising. When he grew up he rejected Islamic fundamentalism and wrote against it in his books. Most of his books have at some time been banned in Egypt and throughout the Arab world. He spoke out against the fatwa against Salman Rushdie. There was also a fatwa against Mahfouz and various attempts on his life, one of which nearly succeeded when in his 80’s he was stabbed in the neck. However he survived and lived well into his 90’s.

Palace Walk is the first book of a trilogy, but each book stands on its own as several years pass in between the events of each book. Although it is fiction, Mahfouz draws heavily on his early life. Kamal is based on Mahfouz himself – in the second book that is much clearer, when Kamal is a young man changing his mind about politics and religion after much soul searching. The novel tells the story of the of the Al-Jawad family, where the father keeps his wife and children under strict control. This is how many families would have lived at that time. However the father, Al-Sayyid Ahmad, is a hypocrite who indulges in all sorts of ‘forbidden’ pleasures. Mahfouz wanted to expose the hypocrisy in Egyptian society – although there is no suggestion that his real life father was anything like that. The book is set against a background of real historical events, and we see how the family is affected by those events. It is interesting to see how the women could only obtain information on which to form their opinions, from their menfolk as they were not allowed to go outside the house.

I first read this many years ago. I found the book gripping from the very first sentence as it is so well written. Each sentence leads you on, wanting to know more. I thought all the characters were well drawn and I felt really involved with all of them. The first time I read it, I cried when I read about the event which happens shortly before the end (I won’t say what as I know some of you haven’t finished it yet). Of course I then had to get and read the other two books, which follow the family through the generations and we see how attitudes change and women become more emancipated, but also see the rise of different political factions. However I still like the first book the best. I have re-read it many times and it remains one of my favourite books.

RoastLamb

01-01-2013, 17:14

OK, I really struggled with this book but I'm glad I made it to the end because I was able to reevaluate my first impressions.

First impressions: Much too long and in need of a good edit. Very repetitive - esp. with regards to the religious stuff. I really struggled to read the first 100 pages. Took me days of picking it up, reading a page, falling asleep. As a result it took me a month to read the entire book which means I probably won't be able to finish the book for my local book club as it's due next Monday.

I absolutely HATED the father character. What a vile detestable hypocrite. The way he treated his wife especially. I hated the way the women were portrayed. And then the oldest son Yasin turned into another version of his father, only worse because he rapes the servants and then blames his wife. But unluckily for him his wife wasn't a pushover like his stepmother and she left him. Hallelujah!

I felt so sorry for the girls even though for them this is all they know. Particularly felt sorry for the mother, Amina, who only has her religion to get her through the day. The way she served her husband made me sick to my stomach esp. washing him after he comes back from a drunken night with his mistress. And the way he made her leave her home when she'd had an accident after a visit to the local temple with her son. No freedom at all. I cannot believe women put up with this crap but then I'm not looking at it from her viewpoint.

However, I did like the two daughters and the two younger sons and their interactions with one another. Interesting that the author chose to name the two daughters (Aisha and Khadija) and daughter-in-law (Zaynab) after the Prophet Muhammad's wives and their mother Amina after his mother. I was disappointed that when the daughters marry and leave their home to live at their husband's, we don't get to see what happens to them from their viewpoints - I think I would have liked that. Altho' if the author based himself on the character of Kamal then I understand why we don't as he didn't. And then the description of Aisha giving birth ends rather abruptly and we don't get to know if the baby and Aisha live or die altho' I assumed they both survived. I could see where the storyline of the elder son, Fahmy, was going and was not surprised at its conclusion.

After I finished the book I researched the author and this book's themes which gave me a much better insight into what the novel is trying to do/show (as Linda explains above). And as a result I appreciated the fact he was trying to reveal how hypocritical and self-serving this Egyptian patriarchal society was and I also "got" the historical context (the Egyptian uprising of 1919) even if I did find reading about it in the novel rather tiresome and dull.

But will I read the sequels? Nope. I read about them and so I know what happens and I'm thankful the cultural attitudes evolve and change. But I can't put myself through the pain.

P.S. A trivia fact: Jackie Kennedy Onassis (editor at Doubleday) was in charge of getting the Cairo Trilogy translated and sold in the North American market.

Linda

01-01-2013, 17:19

Thanks Fiona. Sorry you didn't like it - strangely, I thought that you would.

patmoren

01-01-2013, 17:22

RoastLamb

01-01-2013, 17:23

Thanks Fiona. Sorry you didn't like it - strangely, I thought that you would.

Well to be honest I didn't like it at first but by the end I appreciated what it was trying to do but only after I'd done some research and realized the author's intentions.

RoastLamb

01-01-2013, 17:29

Don't think I can say i enjoyed this book, brought back too many memories of the Suez crisis in 1952 where the Egyptians were the aggressors and treated most other nationalities very badly, men and women alike.
But having said that the book was well written and accurate about the difffrences between men and women in that culture, with an aurocratic father totally dominating the family but enjoying his life to the full.

Yes the "autocratic father totally dominating his family but enjoying his life outside the home" MADE ME SO MAD! But context is everything in the end.

Interesting you mention about the aggressive Egyptians during the Suez crisis. Because I got the impression the English were the aggressors during this particular historical period - they are portrayed rather badly but then again we must consider the point of view. To that end the novel is endlessly fascinating because it raises so many questions.

Linda

01-01-2013, 17:35

But the Suez crisis was 30 years later, when the Egyptians had much more of an identity of their own.

RoastLamb

01-01-2013, 17:38

Yes, I think I was referring to points of views. Obviously we go into reading this type of book with our own frame of reference influencing our perceptions. So at first I think that's why it was so hard for me to comprehend. By the end I had put it all into context and it was so much better. And then I found it rather fascinating seeing things from a totally different POV (esp. with regards to their religion).

pabbers

01-01-2013, 18:09

I thoroughly enjoyed this book, if enjoyed is the right word, especially as I was dreading yet another Egypt book. However, the translation I thought was excellent and this time the author had the authority and IMHO the right to write about his own country and its customs and idiosyncracies.

Of course I too hated the father - but aren't we meant too? I had tremendous regard for an author who, as a male, was able to take his own sex to task and also imagine things from the woman's viewpoint (even if not in detail) and who also had the courage to stand up to his own religion's shortcomings (or is it rather the human shortcomings because religion is twisted to fit the main protagonists' consciences).

I thought the characters were well drawn - and believable - it's not a huge step to find people even in our own culture whose behaviour is not far removed from that portrayed by the book. Narrow minded bigots and bullies of men and weak and easily manipulated women. I also enjoyed the story and the politics interwoven within it. I found it a bit of an eyeopener to see things from an Egyptian/muslim perspective. I felt the English were probably no better than they ought to be, especially given what happened at the end.

Will I read the other 2 books - not immediately but probably at some future point. Thanks, Linda - another book I wouldn't otherwise have picked up 8/10.