View Full Version : Next Gen ATP Finals 7-11th Nov
Next Gen ATP finals 7-1th Nov
https://www.atpworldtour.com/en/tournaments/next-gen-atp-finals/7696/overview
Didn't get off to a good start -
BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/41883462) - Next Gen ATP Finals: 'Disgraceful' draw ceremony leads to accusations of sexism
This is being coverd by Sky from Tuesday. On Tuesday it is on Sky Arena (408) at 13.00 and 18.30 and on Sky Main Event (401) at 18.30.
It will also be on Tennis TV.
exislander
06-11-2017, 17:35
Looking forward to watching this and seeing how some of the innovations add to or detract from the spectacle.
Didn't get off to a good start -
BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/41883462) - Next Gen ATP Finals: 'Disgraceful' draw ceremony leads to accusations of sexism
Really tacky - whoever thought that was a good idea?
Has anyone been watching this? And if so, what are your thoughts about the 'innovations'? I have watched some of it. Strange to see the court marked out as a singles court only...no tram lines. Some of the tennis is good and I like to see the young ones battling it out. However I am no fan of mucking about with the scoring system. I think it's unique and should be left alone. I hate the deciding point at deuce and not happy with the shortened sets. If any of these changes ever become permanent for the main tour the only one I would endorse is 'no lets'. I think that has got to go. I would rate the 'shot clock' as a maybe.
I have been watching it all week & have to say I totally agree with you Pat, no changes at all, I thought I was seeing things with the shortness of the sets, plus I do not agree with the coaching aspect either, don't think the ladies should have either, that is for the player to work out, like you say the clock & the no lets I can live with that but not this format at all, totally ruins the sport of tennis! In fact it's a little bit boring!
What have the crowds been like?
I've watched it on and off. I've always hated the deciding point at deuce in the doubles and it's definitely no better in singles. I don't like the shortened sets either and I'm ambivalent about 'no lets'. I do think the 'shot clock' is a good idea - although I can see it causing problems.
What have the crowds been like?
Not bad - better in the evenings, as you would expect.
I have been watching it all week & have to say I totally agree with you Pat, no changes at all, I thought I was seeing things with the shortness of the sets, plus I do not agree with the coaching aspect either, don't think the ladies should have either, that is for the player to work out, like you say the clock & the no lets I can live with that but not this format at all, totally ruins the sport of tennis! In fact it's a little bit boring!
Yes, I also meant to add I don't like, and never have liked, on-court coaching, and I agree, the women shouldn't have it either. There might be a slight difference in that the women can only talk to the coach once per set whilst the Next Gen seem to have it whenever they want it.
Totally agree about the on-court coaching.
exislander
09-11-2017, 00:39
Has anyone been watching this? And if so, what are your thoughts about the 'innovations'? I have watched some of it. Strange to see the court marked out as a singles court only...no tram lines. Some of the tennis is good and I like to see the young ones battling it out. However I am no fan of mucking about with the scoring system. I think it's unique and should be left alone. I hate the deciding point at deuce and not happy with the shortened sets. If any of these changes ever become permanent for the main tour the only one I would endorse is 'no lets'. I think that has got to go. I would rate the 'shot clock' as a maybe.
I have watched parts of some matches - some good tennis. I will probably be in the minority with some of my thoughts on the innovations being trialed here. Yes Pat, the appearance of the singles only court takes some getting used to. I will say I like the shot clock and the electronic line calling - both seem to keep play flowing better. I do not like the deciding deuce point or the coaching during matches although it is quite interesting hearing what is said by coach and player. I think no let is ok - it was interesting that the umpire had to call a let because he had called "let"! Spectators moving at the sides of the court may be more distracting for other spectators than the players so I am unsure on that one. The most controversial in my opinion is the shortened sets and playing best of 5 sets rather than 3. From table tennis experience we went through a similar change some years ago when the scoring system changed to best of 5 games up to 11 points instead of best of 3 games up to 21 points. We still have "lets" on service only and 2 clear points are required to win a game. The main aim was to make it more spectator - friendly (more attractive for tv) by creating more critical and exciting points in a match. There was much reluctance at first and it took time to get used to the change but it was accepted eventually - and matches are still about the same length as before.
I just hate change, and I have reservations about changes simply to accommodate the TV viewer and spectators. It’s possible to run both. Ie The Tie Break 10’s and the IPL.
Equally I imagine if you go back far enough fans were complaining about women starting to play in short dresses and men in shorts rather than trousers, not to mention the introduction of new racquet technology.
I remember moaning about the introduction of the tie break!
Has anyone been watching this? And if so, what are your thoughts about the 'innovations'? I have watched some of it. Strange to see the court marked out as a singles court only...no tram lines. Some of the tennis is good and I like to see the young ones battling it out. However I am no fan of mucking about with the scoring system. I think it's unique and should be left alone. I hate the deciding point at deuce and not happy with the shortened sets. If any of these changes ever become permanent for the main tour the only one I would endorse is 'no lets'. I think that has got to go. I would rate the 'shot clock' as a maybe.
I have to say al of the changes are pants and interrupt the match/ lessen the excitement for me. Especially the coaching thing. I don't like that at all. I don't think it should be a thing in the women's game. I hope they bin them all.
Sorry all changes with the the exception of the shot clock
I have been watching it this afternoon, and correct me if I am wrong but I am sure that the players were saying that it is making them more tired than norm & that cramping seems to be an issue, wasn't sure if I heard it right!
exislander
09-11-2017, 16:55
I watched the later stages of the match won in 5th set tiebreak between Chung and Quinzi - it was a cracker and so refreshing to see more than just baseline slugging. Quinzi has some great volleys and I hope we will be seeing him in more events before too long. No, I had never heard of him before either!
The automated line calling is brilliant and should be implemented immediately (sorry lines people) on tour. The only problem is Hawkeye's plummy accent. :p
I watched the later stages of the match won in 5th set tiebreak between Chung and Quinzi - it was a cracker and so refreshing to see more than just baseline slugging. Quinzi has some great volleys and I hope we will be seeing him in more events before too long. No, I had never heard of him before either!
Have to agree with you there it was a brilliant match so close, felt sorry for Quinzi not getting the win as he tried so hard & as you say never heard of him but def one to watch our for :thumbup::thumbup:
exislander
09-11-2017, 17:01
I have been watching it this afternoon, and correct me if I am wrong but I am sure that the players were saying that it is making them more tired than norm & that cramping seems to be an issue, wasn't sure if I heard it right!
They did both seem to be cramping this afternoon but they have had some close tough matches in the last couple of days. They may be having to concentrate even more than usual with the no let rule and the shot clock plus no need to challenge line calls surely speeds up play. Ho many times do players seem to challenge a call just to have a few extra seconds between points?
exislander
09-11-2017, 17:06
The automated line calling is brilliant and should be implemented immediately (sorry lines people) on tour. The only problem is Hawkeye's plummy accent. :p
Think I read on one of the atp reports that a player had suggested each umpire should have their own voice recorded which would sound more natural when played on court.
They did both seem to be cramping this afternoon but they have had some close tough matches in the last couple of days. They may be having to concentrate even more than usual with the no let rule and the shot clock plus no need to challenge line calls surely speeds up play. Ho many times do players seem to challenge a call just to have a few extra seconds between points?
One way of thinking about it, but very true, all a learning curve!
The automated line calling is brilliant and should be implemented immediately (sorry lines people) on tour. The only problem is Hawkeye's plummy accent. :pReported.
I have watched parts of some matches - some good tennis. I will probably be in the minority with some of my thoughts on the innovations being trialed here. Yes Pat, the appearance of the singles only court takes some getting used to. I will say I like the shot clock and the electronic line calling - both seem to keep play flowing better. I do not like the deciding deuce point or the coaching during matches although it is quite interesting hearing what is said by coach and player. I think no let is ok - it was interesting that the umpire had to call a let because he had called "let"! Spectators moving at the sides of the court may be more distracting for other spectators than the players so I am unsure on that one. The most controversial in my opinion is the shortened sets and playing best of 5 sets rather than 3. From table tennis experience we went through a similar change some years ago when the scoring system changed to best of 5 games up to 11 points instead of best of 3 games up to 21 points. We still have "lets" on service only and 2 clear points are required to win a game. The main aim was to make it more spectator - friendly (more attractive for tv) by creating more critical and exciting points in a match. There was much reluctance at first and it took time to get used to the change but it was accepted eventually - and matches are still about the same length as before.
I just hate change, and I have reservations about changes simply to accommodate the TV viewer and spectators. It’s possible to run both. Ie The Tie Break 10’s and the IPL.
Interesting thoughts Winnie. I agree with pretty much all you say. With regard to on-court coaching, I agree with you that it is interesting, (lucky it's in English though!), but I still think it shouldn't happen. As for 'no let', and this is simply my own feelings about it, but I find it really irritating when a player serves a decent first serve which barely clips the net and then has to serve again. I find that perhaps 8 times out of 10 the player will then miss the second attempt at the first serve and ends up having to defend a second serve, when the original serve which clipped the net would have been perfect. It would have made very little difference to the returner. Yes, the odd serve which catches the net and drops over will happen, but they have to deal with that in the rallies anyway.
And yes, Teresa, I agree with you there. I am not a fan of changing a perfectly good and time honoured system purely for TV and spectators. I am a spectator and I love it the way it is. I guess I am a die-hard traditionalist but I loathe changes to the scoring system. Other 'peripheral' changes (shot clock, automated line calling etc) I can cope with. But leave the scoring system alone!!!
I have been watching it this afternoon, and correct me if I am wrong but I am sure that the players were saying that it is making them more tired than norm & that cramping seems to be an issue, wasn't sure if I heard it right!
I suspect you did hear it right Lynne. In his post-match interview last night, Coric did say that the extra effort required in concentration was making the players tired.
I watched the later stages of the match won in 5th set tiebreak between Chung and Quinzi - it was a cracker and so refreshing to see more than just baseline slugging. Quinzi has some great volleys and I hope we will be seeing him in more events before too long. No, I had never heard of him before either!
I have seen most of Quinzi's matches, (except for today:sad:) and I have been impressed. One thing is for sure and that's his fighting spirit. He will not give up easily.
These changes are being made because they think viewers have a short attention span. By having more sets, and shorter sets, there is a higher proportion of tense moments. But this will surely be a negative for the players.
The only thing I might go along with is the no lets.
I quite like the short sets (shoot me now!) because it means 5 sets and not 3 so it brings a different dynamic. I agree with Linda about the higher proportion of tense moments as there is no space for players to coast at the beginning of sets. This will make them more tired but I guess it balances out as matches will be shorter overall. It makes it more exciting though!
I'm not sure how I would feel about short sets in Grand Slams ... I don't think I'd like that too much! Although the 5 hour epics are what they are trying to avoid I suppose (sadly). It's all down to TV and while all of us would be happy to sit for 5 hours watching a tennis match, the average casual spectator might not be. I love tennis how it is but change happens, we have to accept it. I hate the sudden death at deuce though, it takes away all the drama of a hard fought game with umpteen deuces and how that can swing the momentum.
I will be surprised if they implement any of it off the back of this try out though. They might try it at a couple of 250's maybe. Does anyone remember when they did that for the round robin format? That flopped spectacularly!
RoastLamb
10-11-2017, 14:52
I don't mind the format but I'm not loving the shortened sets for some reason. Don't know why. And they need to vary the OUT calls coz it's beginning to sound like water torture. Yes to the shot clock and the shortened warm-up and hearing what the coach and player say to each other.
Disappointed for Denis and now he's out I've completely lost interest in the rest of the tournament.
I quite like the short sets (shoot me now!) because it means 5 sets and not 3 so it brings a different dynamic. I agree with Linda about the higher proportion of tense moments as there is no space for players to coast at the beginning of sets. This will make them more tired but I guess it balances out as matches will be shorter overall. It makes it more exciting though!
I'm not sure how I would feel about short sets in Grand Slams ... I don't think I'd like that too much! Although the 5 hour epics are what they are trying to avoid I suppose (sadly). It's all down to TV and while all of us would be happy to sit for 5 hours watching a tennis match, the average casual spectator might not be. I love tennis how it is but change happens, we have to accept it. I hate the sudden death at deuce though, it takes away all the drama of a hard fought game with umpteen deuces and how that can swing the momentum.
I will be surprised if they implement any of it off the back of this try out though. They might try it at a couple of 250's maybe. Does anyone remember when they did that for the round robin format? That flopped spectacularly!
Hmmm! I'm not so sure that it does make it more exciting Caro! ;):)
I really hope you are right about implementing these changes!!
Watched the semis last night. I thought the guys looked thoroughly exhausted, some more than others. We'll see how the final goes later.
Changes to the rules of tennis have been given the thumbs down by some of the sport's biggest names, with Roger Federer leading the way.
https://www.sportinglife.com/tennis/news/federer-and-co-shun-rule-changes/123022
Andrey Rublev is not too happy about the rules of the Next Gen ATP Finals.
http://www.tennisworldusa.org/tennis/news/Tennis_Interviews/49001/andrey-rublev-sceptical-about-new-rules-everyone-can-beat-everyone-/
Changes to the rules of tennis have been given the thumbs down by some of the sport's biggest names, with Roger Federer leading the way.
https://www.sportinglife.com/tennis/news/federer-and-co-shun-rule-changes/123022
Andrey Rublev is not too happy about the rules of the Next Gen ATP Finals.
http://www.tennisworldusa.org/tennis/news/Tennis_Interviews/49001/andrey-rublev-sceptical-about-new-rules-everyone-can-beat-everyone-/
Totally agree with Roger in this instance. As Sascha put it, let's keep the "good old rules". And Rublev is right...change what I call 'peripheral' things (shot clock etc), but leave the game alone. The shot clock certainly getting the :thumbup:
exislander
11-11-2017, 18:44
Denis was supposed to play Medvedev before the final but gave him a walkover. Medvedev now playing Ross Hutchins on court now but no stream.
RH first set 10-8 in tiebreak!
looks like that was it finished.
I was wondering what was going on! According to Live Scores, match between Ross and Danill only just started.(They're calling it 'boys final'!!??) Earlier on Live Score it did look like Ross had won the first set, but that has changed. Confused I am!! :shrug:I expect they had to have a match to entertain the ticket holders! I'm not surprised Denis has pulled out...this has been a very exacting week for all the players.
exislander
11-11-2017, 19:26
Yes, second time looks like Ross lost 2-4???? Maybe they played 2 separate sets? Filled in time and gave crowd something to watch.
It now looks like Ross has retired after losing first set!
Nice to listen to Colin Fleming commentate :thumbup:
exislander
11-11-2017, 20:20
Nice to listen to Colin Fleming commentate :thumbup:
Yes, has been all week!
I really enjoyed that final. Chung has been so solid all tournament. His defence is amazing. He didn't lose one match throughout the whole tournament. I can see why he has been threatening the big names.
Well done to Chung - it's been a fabulous week for him. A well deserved win and his first ATP title.
exislander
11-11-2017, 22:54
Yes, Chung was steadier throughout. Rublev was on fire at the start but fizzled out as the match went on and looked gutted at the end.
JAMES4578
12-11-2017, 02:38
Good if not outstanding final, would've preferred Rublev to take it but couldn't sustain the level and Chung deserved the win with solid play. Not overly keen on the scoring format but like some changes like no lets (long favoured that) and shot clock , even open to total electronic calling, not convinced on on court coaching though. Remains to be seen if regular tour adopt many of them and top players not keen,suppose 250's might consider .
RoastLamb
12-11-2017, 03:44
Glad Chung won. Don't like Rublev at all. Always smashing his racquet and looking and sounding so angry. What a diva.
I didn't see the end of this. From what I saw of the tournament though, I quite liked the headset coaching which I didn't think i would. I don't think they will implement the short sets thing, as i don't think it was popular with the players (is any change ever though?!).
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