US Open 2018 - WTA

[patlowe]

If Halep doesn't pull her socks up soon Andy will be on much earlier than expected. She is a set and a break down. Trailing 3-4 in second.

[JAMES4578]

Simona Halep the Us Open top seed was down a set and 2 breaks to Kaia Kanepi, however now 4 all so should be favoured if she can take it to decider.

[Hawkeye]

Kanepi breaks and will serve for the match.

[exislander]

Halep out!

[JAMES4578]

Halep is out 6-2,6-4 in first big upset. Credit to Kanepi but not Simona's finest hour.

[Alis]

Sad for Simona but congratulations to Kaia! I haven't seen Kaia for ages - has she been injured?

[patlowe]

Halep is out 6-2,6-4 in first big upset. Credit to Kanepi but not Simona's finest hour.

Def not her finest hour James. She smashed her racquet, tossed towels away and threw a few tantrums.

[Stell]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/45341199

[RoastLamb]

I can't believe the fuss behind Alize Cornet turning her top around on court. Unreal!!!

[JAMES4578]

Overnight Caroline Wozniacki knocked out 6-4,6-2 by Tsurenko , not a great run in slams since Aus win. Kerber had a bit of a meltdown with Larsson, lost 5 successive games from 5-2 in 2nd but got through 6-4 in 3rd.

[Alis]

All the girls who have won their maiden Major recently seem to have problems coping - Angelique, Garbine, Simona and now Caroline. Even Sloane has had her problems. I'm sure it can't just be coincidence.

[JAMES4578]

Now another upset as Kerber loses 6-3 in 3rd to Cibulkova, disappointing though didn't really think she would repeat her Wimbledon success and Hantuchova thought it was not a great match up for her. Now will face Keys who won 6-2 in 3rd. 6th sees Garcia also out, going down to Suarez Navarro in final set TB and 13th seed Kiki Bertens who has been playing well of late also lost in final set TB to Vondrousova. Overnight Sabalenka put out Kvitova 7-5,6-1 (not particularly surprised though wouldn't have expected that scoreline in the 2nd) whilst Sharapova had fairly easy 6-3,6-2 win over 10th seed Ostapenko (a lot of errors from Jelena though)

[RoastLamb]

I'm liking Sloane more and more to repeat her win from last year. Some new names I've never heard of making a splash: Sabalenka and Vondrousova to name but two.

[JAMES4578]

First really noticed Sabalenka at Eastbourne where she beat Georges and Pliskova and lost final to wozniacki. In US hard court swing she beat Wozniacki and had another win over Pliskova, took first title in New haven over Suarez Navarro. Don't know much about Vondrousova though.

[Hawkeye]

Keys beats Cibulkova in straights.

[Hawkeye]

Osaka beats Sabalenka in 3.

[JAMES4578]

A good for Osaka putting out Sabalenka 6-4 in 3rd from break down-took 4 mp's but Aryna double faulted at end , has quarter against Tsurenko who beat Vondrousova 6-2 in decider.

[patlowe]

And what about Suarez Navarro, on her birthday, beating Shrieky in 2 sets! Good result! Good birthday present!

[patlowe]

I watched a bit of the Vondrousova/Tsurenko match. Towards the end of the first set Tsurenko was really struggling, looked like she was cramping and was walking very gingerly between points. As I hate watching a player struggle I gave up thinking she would be retiring anyway! Much later I did a wee tour of the courts and found Tsurenko still playing and whatsmore serving for the match!! Amazing. Afterwards she said she was very dizzy and was really struggling with the heat but prayed very hard that the shade would come over the court in 10 minutes because she probably wouldn't have lasted any longer! What endurance to hang on that wee while longer knowing the shade would help! Now into her first GS quarter final.

Edit: it's really worth watching Tsurenko's presser (on USO phone app and prob website too). Apparently Vondrousova accused her of acting (really Marketa?)....I certainly thought Lesia was genuinely struggling.

[RoastLamb]

Not a fan - so far - of either Sabalenka or Vondrousova. Glad Tsurenko pulled out the W! I felt so bad for her struggling in the beginning.

But the match of the day - for me - was between Carla and Shrieky. Now, I watched it on mute because I literally cannot stand Shrieky's shrieks. So happy for Carla - esp. on her b-day. Her defense was stunning. Loved it. I wish she could beat Keys but I don't think she will.

[patlowe]

I think Carla's new coach, Serrano, has been trying to instil more self belief. Seems to be working. She's been having good results recently. She'll have a good go at beating Keys.

[JAMES4578]

Did not see much of Carla/sharapova match (on at same time as Jamie/Bethanie) however Suarez Navarro seemed to counter Sharapova well and noticed Maria had an high error count. It was mentioned in her previous match that she had never lost a night match at US Open (record broken now of course).

[Hawkeye]

Sevastova swats aside Sloane Stephens in straights.

[JAMES4578]

Sevestova was in form but disappointing performance from Stephens ends her title defence. Came back from 1-4 to 3-4 in 2nd but could not sustain momentum.

[RoastLamb]

Sevastova was interviewed on ESPN and she was really adorable. Great sense of humour and said she LOVES tennis and watches all the others play. Said if she could have anything from the other players it would be Serena's serve.

[Hawkeye]

The final will be between Her Serene Majesty and Naomi Osaka after two fairly comfortable semis..

[JAMES4578]

After dropping the first two games Serena totally dominated and think will be tough to stop if in similar form on Saturday. Osaka has done well , however keys was error strewn in the first set and failed to capitalise on 13 break points. Osaka meanwhile took 3 out of 4 in 6-2,6-4 win. Naomi did win last meeting but that was early in the comeback.

[Rosalind]

For a young player in her first slam final, this is very impressive. I think she's going to do it.

[exislander]

First set 6-2 Osaka!

[ljs]

wonderful play fron Naomi !!! Hope she can keep it going !!!

[JAMES4578]

Great play from osaka and very impressive in circumstances, though Serena may improve her level.

[ljs]

Great play from osaka and very impressive in circumstances, though Serena may improve her level.

Hope she doesnt

[karanga]

So do I. Come on Naomi. :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo:

[JAMES4578]

Serena finally breaks on 6 break point with unforced error ,Osaka saved quite a few with aces and now breaks right back for 2-3! Serena now gets point penalty for racket abuse after previous coaching warning (fiercely disputed by Williams) 3 all now.

[Rosalind]

Breaking racquet and suspicious gestures from coach... come on Naomi ! Wow now crowd booing.

[ljs]

how predictable , all drama when shes losing ... ugggg

[patlowe]

This is turning into quite a drama. Young Osaka is a very steely young lady. She has the intensity and focus which is not unlike that of Sharapova. Fist clenching and thigh slapping too. Oh heavens, this is crazy now!

[JAMES4578]

Brings back memories of Clijsters match-whether umpire right or not on coaching issue Serena totally lost it now.

[Rosalind]

Appalling.what a prima donna.

[ljs]

Appalling.what a prima donna.

isnt she tho !!!

And always when shes losing !!!!!

[ljs]

Naomi does it , woooohoooo , too bad this win will be tainted by Serena's drama

[Jan]

Congrats to Naomi - really pleased for her.
What a shame the match will probably be remembered for Serena's dreadful behaviour.

[patlowe]

Wow! What's left to say!!

[JAMES4578]

Well done Naomi Osaka in winning first slam , played great match and proved strong in the circus at closing stages of that match. :clap::clap:Pity it will be remembered by some for different reasons though-quite an tantrum from Serena. Even if she felt wronged not exactly a Championship way to react.

[karanga]

isnt she tho !!!

And always when shes losing !!!!!

Yep it seems like that. I remember her throwing a tantrum when Sam Stosur beat her also in the final at New York some years ago.


https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2011/sep/12/samantha-stosur-wins-us-open

Congratulations to Naomi. :bravo: :trophy:

[ljs]

omgosh , the crowd booing at the trophy presentation , how disgusting !!!!

[Alis]

I cannot believe that Croft and Courier's (the Amazon Prime commentators) sympathies were all for Serena. I have great admiration for everything Serena has achieved but there is absolutely no excuse for her appalling histrionics. Naomi played fantastically well and truly deserved to win. It was amazing how she held it together throughout the match but particularly when Serena totally lost the plot. It is so sad that the win has been totally tainted for her and yet she has conducted herself with dignity. I really hope it is the first of many Major titles for her and I look forward to watching her progress in the future. Well done, Naomi - enjoy your win - you should be very proud!

[ljs]

well , should it really surprise anyone that Serena is a bad loser ??

And I agree Alis , i feel so bad for Naomi , but she played so great , wasn't intimidated by Serena ( like so many are ) and she deserved far better than what she got for her 1st grand slam in New York

[Genbrit]

What a disgusting display from Serena, not surprised though. She deserved everything she got.

Naomi so earned that win, she was the better player and stayed strong throughout the drama.

The trophy ceremony was a disgrace, all about Serena instead of Osaka. At the end she was left all alone clearing up her stuff while everyone had gone off. I didn't see them go but I'm guessing everyone was concerned about Serena!!!!

Be proud Naomi, 1st Grand Slam for a Japanese player. Well played.

I'm furious!!!!!

[Alis]

Greg and Daniella are in total agreement in their interpretation of events in their after match discussion. As they have both said , Carlos Ramos was just doing his job and doing it correctly. Serena was totally in the wrong. Seemingly, her coach has admitted that he was coaching.

[Genbrit]

Yes, he did admit he was coaching. Now, I'm prepared to say that "maybe" Serena didn't see the coaching BUT that doesn't change the way she continued to berate the umpire and thought she was above the rules. Nothing knew there, I don't think.

[angiebabez]

Serena lost many many fans & respect tonight. Appalling behaviour! Felt so so sorry for poor Naomi her big moment was totally ruined :(

[supergran]

Absolutely appalled by Serena's behaviour and also by commies, certain journos and U.S. former players support of her. Have seen this side of her too often. Congratulations to Naomi who played brilliantly with composure but to have her triumph ruined is unforgivable. The hugs and chats by Serena....complete hypocrisy, playing to crowd and tv. I just hope that Naomi can enjoy the next few days savouring her victory. She so deserves it.

[Rosalind]

Yes, he did admit he was coaching. Now, I'm prepared to say that "maybe" Serena didn't see the coaching BUT that doesn't change the way she continued to berate the umpire and thought she was above the rules. Nothing knew there, I don't think.

I might be wrong but when she first started discussing it didn't she say something like "if he was doing thumbs up, we don't have secret signs' if she didn't see him, how did she know it was anything like a thumbs up?

[WimbledonWestie]

I was out tonight and wasn't aware of the match, so came in just in time to see the post match chat on prime. Appalled by serenas behaviour - especially as it very much reminded me of the match she played against clijsters some years ago - so not a one off! Even if she didn't see the coaching, the rule is clear that it's a warning regardless as obviously her coach intended her to see it. However, the worst was the way she was screaming at and abusing Carlos Ramos. No one should be spoken to like that in their place of work. It wouldn't be accepted in other walks of life and should not be accepted on a tennis court. It was rude, embarrassing, unseemly and very unsavoury for the sport. Totally ruined the moment for Osaka ( what a star, am excited to see how she progresses from here ) and even shameful the way Ramos had to be escorted off court rather than be part of the trophy ceremony. Osaka was a winner tonight but I don't think tennis was. Thank heavens fir Jamie- and his irreverent birthday singalong.

[patlowe]

Of course Serena saw Mouratoglou's signal. Firstly she was looking at her box at the time, I clearly saw it on tv, and secondly, why would Mouratoglou send her a signal if she wasn't looking! There would be no point in that!

[Genbrit]

I might be wrong but when she first started discussing it didn't she say something like "if he was doing thumbs up, we don't have secret signs' if she didn't see him, how did she know it was anything like a thumbs up?

You are right Rosalind. Hadn't thought of that. So, even if she didn't see it, she knew there was a usual sign of a thumbs up?????

When it first happened I didn't see it but I heard the thumbs up comment and said to my husband well if it was just a thumbs up, they all do that, and not sure how you could call that coaching, BUT when I saw the actual action it wasn't so much a thumbs up but a movement of the arms which definitely looked like coaching to me.

[Rosalind]

Exactly - when I saw the gesture it was obviously 'move forward ' even if the thumbs were also upwards-y . And his smile afterwards said it all.

[Teresa]

I didn’t watch the match, I can’t stand Williams- (either of them). Congratulations to Osaka, and my sympathies to her. I assume she went out on the court in the expectation of playing Grand Slam Final, not having to placate a gigantic toddler in a full blown tantrum.

Serena Williams is like Federer, all sweetness and light when it’s going their way, but their true colours come out when they lose.

She spoilt Osaka’s seminal moment, and did it deliberately. Pure poison.

I am not fan of Djokovic as you know, but somewhere along the line he has been taught to lose graciously. I always remember him not waiting for the hand shake at the net in 2012, but crossing over into AM’s side of the court as AM was staggering around in complete shock, to give him a hug.

[lovetennis]

Of course Serena saw Mouratoglou's signal. Firstly she was looking at her box at the time, I clearly saw it on tv, and secondly, why would Mouratoglou send her a signal if she wasn't looking! There would be no point in that!

Saw this too Pat, and he nodded when he was satisfied that Serena had received the signal

[lovetennis]

I didn’t watch the match, I can’t stand Williams- (either of them). Congratulations to Osaka, and my sympathies to her. I assume she went out on the court in the expectation of playing Grand Slam Final, not having to placate a gigantic toddler in a full blown tantrum.

Serena Williams is like Federer, all sweetness and light when it’s going their way, but their true colours come out when they lose.

She spoilt Osaka’s seminal moment, and did it deliberately. Pure poison.

I am not fan of Djokovic as you know, but somewhere along the line he has been taught to lose graciously. I always remember him not waiting for the hand shake at the net in 2012, but crossing over into AM’s side of the court as AM was staggering around in complete shock, to give him a hug.

Yep Djokovic is the very definition of a gracious loser. Others would do well to learn that from him.

Serena absolutely lost control. It's not the first time this has happened and I'm shocked by the statement the USTA has put out, basically saying how wonderful she is. Mouratoglou has admitted he was signalling and she is always going to say she didn't see it but that doesn't matter it's still against the rules. His defence seems to have been "well everyone does it" - that doesn't make it ok. I witnessed coaching of Sharapova at Wimbledon this year (being fair-minded Brits the crowd ratted on the offending coach to the stewards and he was removed from the stands before the umpire was even aware of it) so sure it goes on but if nobody imposes the rule it will only get worse.
Whatever happened over the first code violation Serena should not have carried on in the way she did. Unfortunately she will feel validated by the USTA statement and others so I doubt she now realises she was in the wrong

[RosieBear]

First and foremost huge congratulations to Naomi Osaka on a wonderful achievement :clap::clap::clap::trophy:

As for Serena, I completely agree with those saying that her behaviour was disgusting and indefensible, and that we've seen it from her too often. I don't however agree that she's 'pure poison', though Teresa. I don't think she's malicious or spiteful, I think she's very volatile and becomes hysterical when she wants something too much (23rd slam, Serena slam, first major as a mother in home slam etc). She loses emotional control and melts down in spectacular fashion.

Last night was such a shame - for Naomi that such a special and one-off moment was tainted. And although it was her own doing and I have no sympathy, it was also a shame for Serena - what should be an amazing story of overcoming adversity and rising from an LA ghetto to the top of tennis is becoming overhshadowed by negatives. That should be a sobering thought for Serena, and if she genuinely wants to be a role model her daughter, as she keeps telling us, it starts with getting this side of her character under much better control.

[JAMES4578]

First and foremost huge congratulations to Naomi Osaka on a wonderful achievement :clap::clap::clap::trophy:

As for Serena, I completely agree with those saying that her behaviour was disgusting and indefensible, and that we've seen it from her too often. I don't however agree that she's 'pure poison', though Teresa. I don't think she's malicious or spiteful, I think she's very volatile and becomes hysterical when she wants something too much (23rd slam, Serena slam, first major as a mother in home slam etc). She loses emotional control and melts down in spectacular fashion.

Last night was such a shame - for Naomi that such a special and one-off moment was tainted. And although it was her own doing and I have no sympathy, it was also a shame for Serena - what should be an amazing story of overcoming adversity and rising from an LA ghetto to the top of tennis is becoming overhshadowed by negatives. That should be a sobering thought for Serena, and if she genuinely wants to be a role model her daughter, as she keeps telling us, it starts with getting this side of her character under much better control.

Would agree with that and don't think Serena was deliberately spoiling Osaka's moment, even if that was the effect and her reaction was inexcusable. I would at least give her some credit for her speech at the cermony ,though it cannot overshadow everything else. Bad behaviour tends to occur at times of pressure and more often than not in the US, suppose there is issue of lack of consistency with coaching violations but Carlos Ramos is known for being strict. Mouratoglou claims that Osaka was also being coached but certainly did not notice if the case. Some stating though that whilst same umpire gave Djokovic warning for tossing racquet at Wimbledon there was no penalty after confrontation and some have got away with saying worse things. Mouratoglou claims but certainly did not notice if the case. Those claiming Williams was merely defending her honour surely going too far.

[patlowe]

I admit I am biased, not a fan of Serena, but to try and be balanced I ask myself how would I react if that behaviour came from a player I admired and respected more, and would I see it from a different viewpoint. Hard to find an answer and all hypothetical, but firstly it would be disappointment that my player behaved like that and secondly, I guess that behaviour is unacceptable from any sportsperson however unfairly they feel they may have been treated, but then again I make that statement from my biased position. Anyway, getting into a tangle here so I move on! I have always thought Serena was a prima donna from way back when she returned to Wimbledon (can't remember the year) after another of her 'near death' illnesses. When being interviewed then she was very emotional and was so grateful to be alive and to be able to play at Wimbledon and was thanking everybody all round her. She moved me to the extent I actually thought she was so brave and I should give her more respect. That didn't last! On being put on an outside court for her next match, there was another Serena storm when she complained bitterly, no doubt fuelled by the media. From one who was so grateful just to be there, why the brouhaha and drama? Put me off her for good.

[Alis]

I think I am actually more shocked and concerned about the support for Serena coming from a variety of quarters than I am about the appalling behaviour itself. After all, we have been here before with Serena. I would agree that I don't think she set out intentionally to ruin Naomi's moment but that's exactly what she did. The bottom line is that she brought the sport into disrepute and for that she deserves to be serverely censored. What sort of message does her behaviour send to young people trying to make their way in sport of any kind - when things aren't going your way throw a tantrum? You might understand and even excuse that from a frustrated teenager but not from an icon at the top of her sport! She claims that she is suffering from sexism and a man wouldn't have been treated as she was - citing McEnroe, Connors and Agassi as her examples. That was a long time ago, Serena, and hopefully things have changed for the better in the interim. I'm pretty sure that if it had been Kyrgios displaying that atrocious behaviour, he would have had the book thrown at him - and rightly so!

I agree absolutely that Djokovic is a very gracious loser - so much better than his chest banging or nauseating 'love sending' celebrations when he wins!

[patlowe]

I think I am actually more shocked and concerned about the support for Serena coming from a variety of quarters than I am about the appalling behaviour itself. After all, we have been here before with Serena. I would agree that I don't think she set out intentionally to ruin Naomi's moment but that's exactly what she did. The bottom line is that she brought the sport into disrepute and for that she deserves to be serverely censored. What sort of message does her behaviour send to young people trying to make their way in sport of any kind - when things aren't going your way throw a tantrum? You might understand and even excuse that from a frustrated teenager but not from an icon at the top of her sport! She claims that she is suffering from sexism and a man wouldn't have been treated as she was - citing McEnroe, Connors and Agassi as her examples. That was a long time ago, Serena, and hopefully things have changed for the better in the interim. I'm pretty sure that if it had been Kyrgios displaying that atrocious behaviour, he would have had the book thrown at him - and rightly so!

I agree absolutely that Djokovic is a very gracious loser - so much better than his chest banging or nauseating 'love sending' celebrations when he wins!

Yes, just been listening to a whole 30 mins on 5 live on Serena's behaviour last night and was totally surprised and taken aback by Marion Bartoli's reaction and to a lesser extent Chrissie Evert.

[Jan]

I have to confess that I have found myself wondered what Serena's daughter's "Terrible Twos" will be like if she takes a lead from her mother!

[RoastLamb]

OK so I am pretty ticked off with the ESPN commentators esp. Chris Evert. OK, I get it, Serena is American and she was going for a history record and you can't believe that this new girl Osaka is beating her fair and square bla bla bla but to support such spoiled diva behaviour is just wrong. Now, Serena's coach - who I believe is the one who should apologize but instead he doubled down - is also a part time commie for ESPN. Hmmmmm. I am appalled but I am particularly sad for Naomi whose moment in the sun was totally robbed. And that crowd should have known better. She was crying getting her trophy not out of happiness but out of sadness. And all this guff about gender bias is utter rubbish. Serena is known for her ugly tantrums esp. at the USO. To be fair to her, she didn't behave nearly as badly this time around BUT she did over react. I'm still fuming...

[Alis]

Yes, just been listening to a whole 30 mins on 5 live on Serena's behaviour last night and was totally surprised and taken aback by Marion Bartoli's reaction and to a lesser extent Chrissie Evert.

Add Sue Barker and Billy Jean King to that list plus, of course, the statement from the USTA and various newspaper reports and you could be forgiven for thinking that what Serena did last night was to the benefit of tennis. Does anyone else get the feeling that there seems to be considerable 'we are badly done to' feeling coming from the women's side of the sport? Meanwhile the men seem to be keeping a low profile on this one and who can blame them?

[Alis]

I'm still fuming...

Me too! :grrr:

[cazza99]

Stuart Fraser‏Verified account @stu_fraser (https://twitter.com/stu_fraser)


Stuart Fraser Retweeted Ben Rothenberg

Carlos Ramos one of the few umpires not afraid to call a rules violation against the top players when it is due. It is his colleagues who are letting him down with their inaction, which then leads to situations like this in which players feel they are receiving unfair treatment.

[cazza99]

New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/09/sports/tennis/serena-williams-sexism-us-open-.html) - For Serena Williams, a Memorable Match for the Wrong Reasons


"Shriver and Mouratoglou pointed out that umpires typically gave an unofficial warning, not a code violation, after the first glimpse of possible coaching."

[banskogirl]

Add Sue Barker and Billy Jean King to that list plus, of course, the statement from the USTA and various newspaper reports and you could be forgiven for thinking that what Serena did last night was to the benefit of tennis. Does anyone else get the feeling that there seems to be considerable 'we are badly done to' feeling coming from the women's side of the sport? Meanwhile the men seem to be keeping a low profile on this one and who can blame them?

Totally agree. Imagine if her opponent had been white..........I hate discrimination but I hate using it out of context even more!

[Teresa]

$17000 fine. Pocket change to her.

[lovetennis]

Stuart Fraser‏Verified account @stu_fraser (https://twitter.com/stu_fraser)


Stuart Fraser Retweeted Ben Rothenberg

This is absolutely correct from Stuart Fraser. Too many umpires are afraid to act against the transgressions of the top players. Look how Rafa went over the time limit for years until the shot clock's introduction (I'm happy to admit I actually like Rafa, but that doesn't stop me recognising his abuse of the time rule). Carlos Ramos is not one to be intimidated by a star player's presence - others should follow his example

[jagmad]

$17000 fine. Pocket change to her.

Should have made it $13 Million and used it to leave DC alone.

[Alis]

Should have made it $13 Million and used it to leave DC alone.

Now there's an idea - imagine how that would go down with the women!!:laugh:

[supergran]

Of course Serena saw Mouratoglou's signal. Firstly she was looking at her box at the time, I clearly saw it on tv, and secondly, why would Mouratoglou send her a signal if she wasn't looking! There would be no point in that!

And why did he nod twice after signalling. You wouldn't nod to thin air would you?

[supergran]

I had the most interesting night since I joined Twitter. Replied to pundits, journalists, ex-players, Billy Jean King, Patrick MacEnroe et al without wavering from my condemnation of Serena's appalling behaviour and hypocrisy. It did me a world of good and I blocked people continuously. Took my mind off the time of year. Anger and disgust sometimes good for the soul. Now looking forward to Del Potro beating Djokovic.

[lovetennis]

And why did he nod twice after signalling. You wouldn't nod to thin air would you?

Yes it looked like a definite acknowledgement that the message had been delivered and understood.

Finally just had chance to sit down and read some of opinion pieces about the match - and quite shocked to see how much support there is for Serena's behaviour and attitude. I'm so sorry that she blamed the incident on misogyny - I don't see that at all in this particular case. She just came up against an umpire who wasn't taking any messing - having seen Ramos in action over the years I'm satisfied that he would have imposed the same code violations in a men's match. Such a shame and my lasting memory will be of poor Osaka standing on the podium with boos raining down. What a disgrace that her deserved victory was ruined. The crowd were right out of order

[fah51]

I'm disgusted at the amount of support for Serena. There are lots of comments online listing Ramos' issuing of Code violations to male players asking why these weren't docked a game. The bottom line is Serena shouldn't have harangued him for the 90 seconds of the sit down. The players Ramos has issued violations to knew when to shut up - that's why they didn't lose a game. Nothing to do with sexism.

Anyway well done to Naomi, she is a joy to watch. I hope this is the first of many titles for her.

[Sallydaisy]

Good response from Jon Wertheim via Twitter @jon_wertheim (https://twitter.com/jon_wertheim) 8h8 hours ago (https://twitter.com/jon_wertheim/status/1038752595144265728)

Woke up this morning thinking of Osaka. Try this on: when passions cool and detachment sets it, her title won’t be overshadowed by the circus. It will be FORTIFIED by it. She didn’t just outplay Serena. She out-poised her and adapted to an unforeseeable scenario, as champions do.

[Alis]

Well, the ladies doubles final was a great antidote to last night's debacle. A great match with all four players playing really well. Congratulations to Coco and Ashleigh on their first Major title! :clap::clap::clap:

[Alis]

I had the most interesting night since I joined Twitter. Replied to pundits, journalists, ex-players, Billy Jean King, Patrick MacEnroe et al without wavering from my condemnation of Serena's appalling behaviour and hypocrisy. It did me a world of good and I blocked people continuously. Took my mind off the time of year. Anger and disgust sometimes good for the soul. Now looking forward to Del Potro beating Djokovic.

Well done, SG!!!!!

[WimbledonWestie]

Have made more comments on twitter in last 24 hrs than in past year ( in my own name, I am generally very busy tweeting as my club - and making sure I remember who I m when I tweet. ). It has been most stimulating.

[karanga]

I am shocked too at the amount of support for Serena and at the lack of concern for Naomi Osaka.

People are saying that Ramos should have given Serena a warning. Why should he? Both Serena and her coach know the rule about coaching so it should not be necessary for her to be given a warning.

The truth of the matter is that Serena's behaviour was completely out of order and not the behaviour of a 'great' champion. I cannot think of any of the great champions of the past, especially Steffi Graf, behaving in such a way.

As for the comparison with Lahyani and Kyrgios there is a huge difference between that incident on an outside court in an early round of a grand slam and throwing a tantrum in a final of a grand slam because her coach was seen to be coaching her and a resultant code violation being given.

[RoastLamb]

Enjoyed the very competitive ladies' dubs match and altho' I really dislike Coco I'm VERY happy for Ash Barty. Disappointed for Kiki.

[sir coolerking]

You do see Djokovic, Nadal and even Andy occasionally warned for taking too much time between points (or the occasional obscenity). The general reaction is to have a little moan at the time but then get it totally out of their system (Nadal actually largely ignores it). When they are sitting on a code violation, what none of them then do is smash a racquet to lose a point. I have also never heard any of them accuse the umpires of being cheats, liars or thieves either. You only see this side of Serena when she's losing and I can't believe there is so much defence for a spoilt brat.

[patlowe]

You do see Djokovic, Nadal and even Andy occasionally warned for taking too much time between points (or the occasional obscenity). The general reaction is to have a little moan at the time but then get it totally out of their system (Nadal actually largely ignores it). When they are sitting on a code violation, what none of them then do is smash a racquet to lose a point. I have also never heard any of them accuse the umpires of being cheats, liars or thieves either. You only see this side of Serena when she's losing and I can't believe there is so much defence for a spoilt brat.

A spoilt brat who is such a diva she thinks it is her right to win and that the normal rules shouldn't apply to her.
Listened to a debate on the matter on 5 live this morning. My blood was boiling and I was seething and never ever will I be so close to picking up the phone to phone a national radio station which is definitely not me! Glad I restrained myself in the end! (Pity Serena couldn't have restrained herself.) It's become such a devisive issue and whilst there were people who saw the situation for what it was and stated it very eloquently, there were too many supporting Serena under the woman's rights umbrella. Surely the bottom line in the whole of this is, regardless of whether Ramos had done this or that, Serena should never have behaved in the manner she did.

[Rosalind]

agree agree agree! Neither have I ever seen a male player cry due to a squabble with an umpire. Please, if you're going to play the sexist card, don't start crying Serena! She stopped short of stomping her foot though - I'll give her that. :rolling:

Everyone jumping on the bandwagon in the mainstream media and I bet some of them couldn't even name the winner!
I sent a tweet to Naomi congratulating her because I think she deserves a lot more attention.

[cazza99]

A nice article on Osaka

BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/45469820) - US Open: Naomi Osaka 'can be first Japanese world number one'

[cazza99]

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/10/sports/tennis/us-open-naomi-osaka-serena-williams.html-Naomi Osaka Lost Her Moment of Triumph. Let’s Not Forget Her Match.



So was the chair umpire Carlos Ramos truly a thief in Saturday’s United States Open women’s final? Not by the letter of tennis law.


But Ramos, Serena Williams’s coach Patrick Mouratoglou and, above all, Williams herself bear responsibility for the way an intense, gripping final between a great champion and a great young talent turned ugly.


........

But Osaka will never get her breakthrough moment back. If there was bona fide thievery on Saturday —- this was only a tennis match, after all — it was in that.

What Mouratoglou has to say about Osaka

“She was exceptional from the start to the finish,” Mouratoglou said. “She never tried to overplay. She was under control the whole time, and she controlled everything including her emotions, which of course is the hardest thing when you play your first Grand Slam final. And this was true from the beginning to the end, when she served for the match. She was as calm and in control in the last game as in the first game of the match, and that is rare.”


Serena's past history

But it all unraveled again on Saturday on the same court where it has unraveled before. At least she did not physically threaten Ramos like she threatened a lineswoman who dared call her a foot fault in that 2009 semifinal versus Kim Clijsters (https://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/13/sports/tennis/13women.html), which ended with Williams losing the match on a point penalty.


She was trailing then, just as she was trailing on Saturday and just as she was trailing in the 2011 final (https://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/12/sports/tennis/stosur-wins-us-open-womens-title.html), when she was called for hindrance in her loss to Sam Stosur after shouting in the middle of a rally and distracting her opponent. That time, Williams berated the chair umpire Eva Asderaki and told her: “If we’re ever walking down the street, stay on the other side. You’re totally out of control. You’re a hater and you’re unattractive inside. What a loser.”

[Alis]

I felt so sorry for Naomi when I saw her post-match interview. 'A win is a win,' she said. I really hope that she doesn't believe she was handed her win by the umpire. Nothing could be further from the truth. Quite simply, Naomi outplayed Serena - which is why Serena threw all her toys out of the pram. Of course, she now has to find a way to defend her actions and she has done that by playing the sexism card, totally devaluing the true cases of discrimination that women all over the world have to cope with on a daily basis. It makes me so angry. I'll just have to stay away from all news reports for the next week or so until the furore dies down!

[RoastLamb]

Exactly! SHE is the thief - she stole the glory from Naomi.

[patlowe]

How has this turned into a sexism claim from Serena when 2 of her most famous outbursts of vitriol (both at USO vs Clijsters and Stosur) were directed at women? Don't get it.

[RosieBear]

How has this turned into a sexism claim from Serena when 2 of her most famous outbursts of vitriol (both at USO vs Clijsters and Stosur) were directed at women? Don't get it.

Because she's not mature or decent enough to reflect and apologise, so she keeps on digging and acting like a classic cry-bully (aided and abetted by a depressing number of people). She should be thankful she didn't receive the two slam ban on top of the fine, as Fabio (quite rightly) did after his vile outburst at an umpire at last year's USO. She sees herself as a victim but she got off very lightly in comparison http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2017/10/fabio-fognini-us-open-umpire-grand-slam-ban/69895/

[patlowe]

Just been listening to Ginnie Wade. She actually spoke very well refuting the sexism claim saying that came later as an aside and citing the 2 previous incidents when it was women officials who were targeted by Serena. She also didn't think much of BJ King's statement. Well played Ginnie!

[patlowe]

Statement just been released by ITF. Basically supported Ramos calling the incident regrettable.

[jagmad]

I blame her TEMPUR.............. Mattress!

If this sleep is power perhaps she should learn to channel it correctly.
Or spend less time in bed!

[Alis]

Just been listening to Ginnie Wade. She actually spoke very well refuting the sexism claim saying that came later as an aside and citing the 2 previous incidents when it was women officials who were targeted by Serena. She also didn't think much of BJ King's statement. Well played Ginnie!

Well done, Virginia!!

[Alis]

Statement just been released by ITF. Basically supported Ramos calling the incident regrettable.

........ and well done the ITF!!

[banskogirl]

I went in to work today and was stopped by confused people thinking, as non tennis followers, they had missed something considering the amount of support Serena is getting. I told them her history and how I think some people are almost afraid not to stand up for 'womens' rights'. I have been so angry about it. I am not surprised the men are staying out of this one, they would be .....oops can't say that word! (have things cut off)

[Alis]

Whoops! On hearing on the BBC News tonight that the WTA is supporting Serena's claims of sexism, I thought I had better re-read their statement. I take back what I said about them sitting on the fence. I had missed the most important sentence in their statement. After saying that men and women should be treated equally - they went on to say, 'We do not believe that was done last night'. Shame on the WTA! Note to self - in future, take the time to read properly!

[Genbrit]

Well said everyone and to Ginnie Wade(not one of my favs ;) ) and all who have had the guts to speak the truth against the wild one. I'm still angry at the way she has portrayed women in this, as that we need an excuse if we are losing and can always twist things to be all about being a woman. It almost feels that the progress woman have made over the years, as far back as Pankhurst, has been diminished by one selfish bad loser who can't control herself or know how to follow the correct channels to protest. Not that I think she had anything to protest about. I could call her much more but will refrain as others have done before me!!! Now, I want to see Osaka become #1 and beat Serena back to it.

[HoopGirl]

At the risk of being shot down here. I think Serena's behaviour was a mixture of all sorts of things - wanting something so much, being highly emotional about where she was this time last year with another near death experience, a life time of experiencing racial discrimination plus the sexism in tennis and life that most women experience.

Put all of that into the cauldron and mix with the inconsistencies of how the rules are implemented by so many different officials and there is some explanation why she boiled over as she has. And on top of that society isn't comfortable with women who have strong opinions and are angry and lets us know it.

[lovetennis]

At the risk of being shot down here. I think Serena's behaviour was a mixture of all sorts of things - wanting something so much, being highly emotional about where she was this time last year with another near death experience, a life time of experiencing racial discrimination plus the sexism in tennis and life that most women experience.

Put all of that into the cauldron and mix with the inconsistencies of how the rules are implemented by so many different officials and there is some explanation why she boiled over as she has. And on top of that society isn't comfortable with women who have strong opinions and are angry and lets us know it.

I do agree that Serena was seeing the situation through the prism of all the things you describe, and have absolutely no doubt that she has experienced sexism and racism in her career and on a broader scale. In the heat of the moment she decided that these issues were part of what was happening. I did hope that afterwards she might be able to reflect and see that although sexism is something she has experienced, it wasn't the case on this occasion. I fear now that the validation she's received from the WTA and elsewhere will prevent her from making a truthful reflection on the events. Only she will know how she comes to view the event in hindsight but I can't see Carlos Ramos getting an apology anytime soon

[patlowe]

It has often been my experience from my teaching days that children who protest their innocence too vehemently and who bluster and cry about it are often guilty......I rest my case.

I'm done with this now. It has all been aired. I am going to give my full attention to preparing for Glasgow and the DC. Leaving on Thursday morning and really looking forward to it. All my energy will now be reserved for cheering on our team. :jitterbug:

[Alis]

You're right - time to move on. Roll on DC!

[RoastLamb]

Sorry guys I just saw this on twitter. Martina Navratilova wrote this piece for a NY paper and she seems to make a lot of sense:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/10/opinion/martina-navratilova-serena-williams-us-open.html

And Patrick McEnroe gave it a big thumbs up. He also went on American breakfast tv and said that Serena has to take responsibility for her behaviour. So, thankfully, some of the big cheeses can see sense.

[Josephine]

I agree - I read the article too and thought it was the most sensible thing said so far.

[jagmad]

Whoops! On hearing on the BBC News tonight that the WTA is supporting Serena's claims of sexism, I thought I had better re-read their statement. I take back what I said about them sitting on the fence. I had missed the most important sentence in their statement. After saying that men and women should be treated equally - they went on to say, 'We do not believe that was done last night'. Shame on the WTA! Note to self - in future, take the time to read properly!

Hey you made a mistake and after checking/reflecting you realized it and then apologized.
I'd say it's a shame SW didn't do the same.
Bless her she got stuck on the third note of the musical scales (which most champions seem to do frequently) and forgot all about her opponent. (Which most don't at the end)
IMO that's the biggest shame.
Now I'm off to get my suitcase.
:yahoo::GBflag::yahoo::cheer::dance::swingin::big grin:

[Sallydaisy]

tee hee ...

@Knightcartoon (https://twitter.com/Knightcartoons)19 hours ago (https://twitter.com/Knightcartoons/status/1039017329030393856)
My toon in today’s @theheraldsun (https://twitter.com/theheraldsun) on #SerenaWilliams (https://twitter.com/hashtag/SerenaWilliams?src=hash)@usopen (https://twitter.com/usopen)
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DmtUvwfU0AAgMYg.jpg

[Linda]

Now there is big furore going on with people saying that cartoon is racist!!!

[Josephine]

Perhaps it shouldn't be on here as it is quite controversial. I do find it pretty distasteful.

[Alis]

Oh come on - it's a caricature and caricatures always overplay every feature. There are similar ones every day of Theresa May. Would you object if it were a caricature of Fed or Djoko?

[Josephine]

No because they don't face racsim.

Sorry I do find it quite offensive and I think it should be removed.

[Alis]

Okay - I accept your view but I actually don't see why it is okay to caricature a white person but not a black person. Surely that in its own way is discrimination? Anyway, that is probably not a discussion for here and if it offends others perhaps it should be removed.

[Josephine]

Thanks

It is OK to caricature different races. Just think this is crassly done especially as Osaka is portrayed as white and totally blonde

Just think it should not be here.

[jeannie13]

I feel uncomfortable seeing this being shown here. I was horrified at Serena's behaviour,but feel that the caricature is bordering on being viewed as racist. It should have no place on this forum. I doubt if Andy would approve.

[Sallydaisy]

It's a cartoon, the artist concerned does them about all sorts of people irrespective of race and colour and that includes other tennis players, male and female, of all nationalities.

It is staying put; y'all are making mountains of molehills. Get a grip.
:pirate:

[Alis]

Thanks

It is OK to caricature different races. Just think this is crassly done especially as Osaka is portrayed as white and totally blonde

Just think it should not be here.

I don't see Osaka - is she there?

[Teresa]

I genuinely don’t see why that cartoon is racist. Don’t all cartoons of that type emphasis and target certain features. Look at the spitting imagine puppets. Some of the ones of AM over the years have been equally cruel.

It’s not a nice cartoon, but Serena’s behaviour wasn’t nice.

[Josephine]

I think it is wrong this was posted by a moderator and I definitely think Andy would hate this cartoon.

[Teresa]

One of Nick Kyrgios equally calling him out for his behaviour.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dmt4RLkU8AAgUni.jpg:large

[exislander]

Osaka does have a blonde ponytail in pictures I have seen and I can't see much difference between the two players in skin tone in that caricature so I don't understand what some people are on about. The umpire followed the rules and Serena did not stop when she should have done.

[Josephine]

Kyrgios is mixed race.

In any case I find the cartoon offensive and would like to know who I can appeal to on this forum?

I think someone else rather than the poster should moderate on this.

[Linda]

I know that Sally is always very careful to avoid the slightest hint of racism on here. Once, when pointing out a player in a pic of several players, she posted 'He's the one with the yellow racquet bag' despite the fact that he was the only black player in the pic. So as Sally has posted the cartoon, I believe that confirms my view that it is definitely not racist.

[exislander]

I wonder how many potential umpires will now never take the job?

[Josephine]

I'm not suggesting Sally is racist at all. I'm sure that is not the case. But if I and at least one other person find the cartoon offensive and think it should not be posted here, I think a moderator other than Sally should respond. I await an answer.


https://www.news.com.au/sport/sports-life/american-explains-why-he-believes-serena-williams-cartoon-was-racist/news-story/04f0c6daf38998336a2f8b2c0b766e33

'Dr Johnson argued it didn’t matter what Knight’s intention was. If his cartoon was received as racist, it was racist.'


I think this is part of the definition of racism in the Equality Act 2010.

[Josephine]

Sorry - as a member of this forum do I not deserve a response? Who are the moderators and why do some have more power than others?

[banskogirl]

No because they don't face racsim.

Sorry I do find it quite offensive and I think it should be removed.

Everyone faces discrimination or racism of some sort.......some of us grow a thicker skin and call it taking the Mick!

[jagmad]

I'm not suggesting Sally is racist at all. I'm sure that is not the case. But if I and at least one other person find the cartoon offensive and think it should not be posted here, I think a moderator other than Sally should respond. I await an answer.


https://www.news.com.au/sport/sports-life/american-explains-why-he-believes-serena-williams-cartoon-was-racist/news-story/04f0c6daf38998336a2f8b2c0b766e33

'Dr Johnson argued it didn’t matter what Knight’s intention was. If his cartoon was received as racist, it was racist.'


I think this is part of the definition of racism in the Equality Act 2010.

ATT Dr Johnson:
Dear Sir please could you tell my friend to stop disputing the fact that if I think/perceive the sky as Pink then it must be.
I find it most upsetting.
Yours sincerely, Irate over nothing.

[RoastLamb]

Hmmmm if, let's say, Alize Cornet - who we know often gets heated on court like Serena - was in this cartoon would we consider it racist?

[Josephine]

Obviously not!

I'm still awaiting a comment from a moderator because I don't think this should have been posted on the forum as many people including JK Rowling are describing it as racist.

I am in favour of free speech and am not saying the cartoonist should not be allowed to draw this - I am saying such a controversial and I think unpleasant image should not have been posted on this forum which has Andy's name attached to it.

And ignorance (and mocking) of the law is no excuse.

I work in a field where people face constant discrimination (disability) and aim to try to reduce this, so I feel quite strongly about people making glib comments about just having to accept it.

Anyway I will leave the issue and the forum as no moderator has replied to me which I am not surprised by as I know they are all friends of the poster.

[RoastLamb]

It is controversial and it is unpleasant but then so was the incident itself and Serena's behaviour. I have mixed feelings on it tbh. I can see why people are upset tho'.

[HoopGirl]

I don't like it either Josephine.
It makes me feel very uncomfortable.
I'm surprised that your concerns haven't been responded to.

[angiebabez]

I don't like it either Josephine.
It makes me feel very uncomfortable.
I'm surprised that your concerns haven't been responded to.



Think she's gone :shocked:

[Hawkeye]

For the avoidance of doubt...

There is a long-standing reporting procedure in place on the forum, which no-one, except for one of the moderators, has used in this instance.

The moderating team are all busy people, and we work by consensus, which can therefore take time.

IN ANY EVENT, it is also a long-standing rule that moderating decisions are not discussed on the open forum.

This is all clearly stated in the Forum Code of Conduct.

http://www.andymurrayfanforum.com/forums/showthread.php?439-Code-of-Conduct

[Josephine]

My computer skills are such that I could not even find out how to delete my account last night - that is true!! So l logged out but came back to check if there was any response to the complaint.

To point out, as you can believe from my computer skills, I did not know and could not find the procedure for making a complaint.

I therefore sent a private message to a mod at 11.49am yesterday with the first words being - 'I don't want to cause a row' asking if the image could be removed. I was told Sally was a supermoderator and therefore the removal of the image was at her discretion.

Sally had already posted a reply at 11.21 dismissing any concerns in what I consider a fairly brusque way. I therefore sought a response from mods on the forum at 2pm, and at 7.15pm asked who the mods were - as I couldn't find it on the forum.

I understand that the mods are busy but more than 12 hours after my initial complaint, I had not even received a PM to say this was being looked into. 2 other people have posted concerns so I am not the only one who felt the cartoon posting was inappropriate on this forum.

I am putting this on the public forum because I think people can always learn from how things are handled. For myself I probably did become annoyed at the lack of response and made this personal for which I apologise, but reading the code of conduct I also feel that the initial reply to complaints made by the supermoderator on the public forum did not follow the guidelines.

I would still like to hear something from the moderators about the original posting so will wait for that. Beyond that it really doesn't matter. I will move on and wish everyone here all the best.

[Linda]

For future reference, to report a post that you find offensive, click on the 'exclamation mark within a triangle' at the bottom of the post, next to the thanks button. This will alert the moderators.

[Hawkeye]

The list of moderators is listed under Feedback and Support, as well as here http://www.andymurrayfanforum.com/forums/showgroups.php

[jeannie13]

For future reference, to report a post that you find offensive, click on the 'exclamation mark within a triangle' at the bottom of the post, next to the thanks button. This will alert the moderators.
Thanks for the information Linda. As someone like myself who is not very computer literate I wasn't sure how to report items.
As there are a number of newish people on the forum it might be helpful if such information was regularly posted. Also helpful for oldies like me who sometimes forget!!!:confused:

[piscesperson]

Serena Williams & Billie-Jean King's tennis sexism claims dismissed by Jamie Murray
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/45513038

[clancy]

The moderators on this forum work extremely hard on our behalf, often having other job/commitments, and must be wondering if it is worth the hassle of the last few days. Whatever your views on the matter, I still say shame on you, Serena for leaving us all with a nasty taste.

[Teresa]

https://www.news.com.au/sport/tennis/us-tennis-association-boss-backflips-on-support-for-serena-williams/news-story/c7409fec44d1ed2eac61f29c952f0cfd

This is an interesting article on the subject. I don’t think the umpires are too happy about this. I wonder what would happen if they simply refused to umpire Serena’s matches?

[cazza99]

BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/45506120) - Naomi Osaka does not feel sad about Serena Williams' outburst overshadowing US Open win

BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/45492288) - Serena Williams 'out of line' in US Open final but umpire 'blew it', says Billie Jean King

[karanga]

Veteran chair umpire issues Serena with an ultimatum - Apologise or we boycott you



“They’re worried what happened to Carlos could happen to them. You do your job and you’re condemned for it.

“We as officials have no spokesman or advocate for us.




https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/tennis/serena-williams-issued-ultimatum-leading-13248834

[Teresa]

Quite right too. She had no right to abuse somebody just doing their job.

[jagmad]

http://www.livetennis.com/category/wta-tournaments/barbora-strycova-blasts-serena-williams-for-u-s-open-final-meltdown-20180914/

Barbora Strycova blasts Serena Williams for U.S. Open final meltdown