View Full Version : BBC Sports Personality 2011
Sallydaisy
28-11-2011, 19:48
Andy is one of the 10 nominees again ... see this (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/sports_personality/15920702.stm) feature on the BBC website.
What do we think of his chances?
The winner will be selcted by public vote during the live show on Thursday, 22 December from 2000 GMT.
The public will be able to vote for their BBC Sports Personality of the Year by telephone; details of the numbers to vote on will be given out during the programme.
The shortlist (in alphabetical order) is:
Mark Cavendish (cycling)
Darren Clarke (golf)
Alastair Cook (cricket)
Luke Donald (golf)
Mo Farah (athletics)
Dai Greene (athletics)
Amir Khan (boxing)
Rory McIlroy (golf)
Andy Murray (tennis)
Andrew Strauss (cricket)
Mo Farah (athletics) has it in the bag
Mandiemoo
28-11-2011, 19:52
The nominees are decided by newspapers & magazines who put together their top ten. Here is a link to how they voted so you can boycott the ones who didnt vote for Andy lol!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/sports_personality/15895642.stm
bee (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/tv_and_radio/sports_personality_of_the_year/default.stm)b sports personality includes andy, and rory mac, who would get my vote
and he's on every list!
Sports Personality of the Year shortlist has been announced and Andy is one of the sportsman listed (not that he has any chance of winning it sadly :(.
BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/sports_personality/15920702.stm) - BBC announce 2011 Sports Personality of the Year top 10
And a short summary about his year:
BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/sports_personality/15828119.stm) - Sports Personality of the Year top 10: Andy Murray
Edit: oops harriet beat me to it. :)
Sallydaisy
28-11-2011, 22:04
Edit: oops harriet beat me to it. :)
And we had a thread already set up for it too .....
;)
yes, sorry, the thread was there a hour before my post too, never saw it!
The nominees are decided by newspapers & magazines who put together their top ten. Here is a link to how they voted so you can boycott the ones who didnt vote for Andy lol!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/sports_personality/15895642.stm
Interesting that there were no Scottish publications listed!
Mo Farah (athletics) has it in the bag
I put my money on either Mo or Luke Donald. Andy won't win it until he wins Wimbledon - it's the only tournament most of the public recognise!
Sallydaisy
28-11-2011, 22:36
I'm thinking Darren Clarke might win it. He was pipped to the post in 2006 by Zara Phillips and said at the time he didn't want the 'sympathy' vote having played fantastically in the Ryder Cup just 6 weeks after his first wife died. So, perhaps winning the Open will do the business for him this year. As ever there's a good mix of sportsmen - but no women - and none from Football or Rugby!
I doubt Andy will succeed - most people seem to think it'll take winning Wimbledon for that to happen.
KnightOwl
28-11-2011, 23:00
I think Rory McIlroy must be in with a pretty good chance - must be a first to have three golfers in there and no footballers!!
And we had a thread already set up for it too .....
;)
Yeah, my bad, didn't realise that there was a thread for this. :shamed:
I doubt Andy will succeed - most people seem to think it'll take winning Wimbledon for that to happen.
Even if Andy won Wimbledon I doubt he would get the award. I remember when Greg Rusedski won the award in 97 for getting to the US Open final. How times have changed!
Anyway, I think Mo is probably the favourite, but it would be nice if Rory McIlroy won.
JAMES4578
28-11-2011, 23:32
Yeah, my bad, didn't realise that there was a thread for this. :shamed:
Even if Andy won Wimbledon I doubt he would get the award. I remember when Greg Rusedski won the award in 97 for getting to the US Open final. How times have changed!
Anyway, I think Mo is probably the favourite, but it would be nice if Rory McIlroy won.
Surely Andy would win in that scenario! Anyway I'm more interested in Andy picking up any slam that winning this award! I notice Andy is a 100-1 outsider on some sites, we alll know this is not going to be his year at any rate! It will likely be a battle between Farrah and McIlroy. Shame that no women are on the list this time, though it nothing to do with the BBC as some have claimed.
Yeah! That is great for Andy to be shortlisted this year again! I wasn't sure if it was going to happen. I doubt he will win it till he wins a GS... typical
KnightOwl
29-11-2011, 01:12
True - but it's still cool that he's on the list!
Golden Lady
29-11-2011, 09:00
I am pleased that Andy is on the list and IMO so he should be! Andy should most definitely be recognised for being one of the world's best tennis players, for his Asian treble win resulting in a climb to no 3 and his best performance in the slams this year. I agree he won't win the award until he's won a slam but personally I would be incensed if he wasn't on the list!
Likewise, I don't think Andy will win this until he gets a GS title - and even then it's not guaranteed. In the public's eyes his achievements just aren't great enough.
Pro Player
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts:466Re: BBC Sports Personality 2011
Likewise, I don't think Andy will win this until he gets a GS title - and even then it's not guaranteed. In the public's eyes his achievements just aren't great enough.
Agree with this comment. Think Rory McIlroy has a great chance. Very interesting to see what papers voted for Andy.
No surprise that the Daily Hate Mail did not.
Luke Donald is the only golfer in history to finish the year top of the American and the European money list and he's the world number 1. He really has achieved far more this year than Darren or Rory but, of course, like Andy it probably won't be recognised because he hasn't won a Majpr. I wouldn't be surprised if Andy won a major next year and/or the Olympic gold medal and still not get the award - in an Olympic year there are bound to be other 'stand-out' achievements that will take precedence.
Good to see Andy flying his lone flag for British Tennis in the nominees.
I don't care about the SPOTY award; but I am glad to celebrate Andy's achievements this year - and give me his 'unstructured' personality any day! Andy :hug:
Wow can't believe no one has mentioned Mark Cavendish on here yet he is the clear favourite for me
personally I don't think Andy should have been nominated in the top 10 It would have been better for others who have actually won major events in their sport to have been nominated particularly as there was no women yet we have female world champions in swimming or triathlon for example. If Andy wins a slam (or 2 or 3 or 4) particularly Wimbledon then yes he has a chance depending on what else has happened in the year but until then he will not get in the top 3.
Now is Djokovic a certainty for overseas sports personality?
Controversy over the lack of women nominated.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/sports_personality/15936294.stm
Can't see the problem myself.
Mark Cavendish is the clear winner for me as well. He was brilliant and HTC should get the team award. :thumbup: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer:
If its Sport then Cav deserves it, if its Personality then i'd go for Darren.
As far as no women nominations goes, yes some of them possibly did deserve to be in the list but personally i think any of them would have been unlikely to be in the top 5 votes wise.
VamosVixs
29-11-2011, 18:19
I don't expect him to win it but it's great Andy has been nominated. :thumbup:
Tie-break
29-11-2011, 18:58
And it's Cav for me too - a no brainer. The last 2 kilometres of the World Championship road race in September was the stand out sporting moment of 2011 - and the scariest.
For sure Andy should have been nominated - the best British achievement in GS in one year ever.. But he won't win until he has a slam (won't be long now).
lankster2003
29-11-2011, 19:23
Mark Cavendish is a shoe-in for it!!!!
Andy achieved a hell of lot in 2011, 1 GS Final+ 3 SF + 2x1000 + 5 ATP Titles in all in 2011. I for one will be voting for him. If all his fans vote he might have a chance instead of saying he does not deserve to be nominated. shame on you Yorkie
Glad to see I'm not alone in thinking Cav should win.
Andy achieved a hell of lot in 2011, 1 GS Final+ 3 SF + 2x1000 + 5 ATP Titles in all in 2011. I for one will be voting for him. If all his fans vote he might have a chance instead of saying he does not deserve to be nominated. shame on you Yorkie
Sorry but I don't think he has the slightest chance of winning and my personal opinion is despite all Andy has acheived he has not acheived the pinnacle of his sport where others who have not even been nominated have and I don't see that as right. Its a personal opinion and I knew some on here might disagree but that won't change my opinion. Hopefully next year I won't be saying the same because Andy will have won a slam event (or even better more than one)
david1610
30-11-2011, 12:14
If we judged it purely on sporting achievement, IMHO it is very hard not to vote for Mark Cavendish. He has dominated professional road cycling sprinting in a way even the past greats did not. His percentage of victories in sprint stages in the Tour de France in the last few years is unbelievable. Green jersey winner and world champion.He is the best in the world at what he does by such a margin and journalists have pointed out that if he were Belgian or Italian, or any nationality that takes cycling seriously, he would certainly be a favourite for an award like this!
And much as I love Andy, Yorkie is completely right.
I suppose everyone's view is dependent on how much you know about the various sports involved or how much publicity they are given. I know nothing about cycling so had not realised, until various members here pointed it out, just what an outstanding achievement Mark Cavendish has made. I am sure it is the same with the majority of the public. Not many people will realise how well Andy has done this year - they will probably only remember that he lost to Djoko in Australia, was knocked out of Wimbledon in the semis, was injured at the WTF and hasn't won a major. By the same token, most people who do not follow golf won't realise what a fantastic year Luke Donald has had. I am sure the same could be said about the cricketers and the boxer. I do feel very sorry for the sportsmen/women who accomplish so much in sports that get very little press - sometimes even becoming world champions - but they never get the recognition they deserve and would be unlikely to be nominated for any award, much less the SPOTY.
I find it unfathomable that some here feel Andy should not be on the short list. This is the 6th time in 7 years Andy has been nominated for SPOTY and given this is widely accepted as his best ever year I assume these critics believe he did not deserve any of the previous 5 nominations. There is not a more consistent top performing world class sportsman in Britain today and for that alone he deserves recognition.
Yorkie is completely right.
Mrs Yorkie says thats a first!
I find it unfathomable that some here feel Andy should not be on the short list. This is the 6th time in 7 years Andy has been nominated for SPOTY and given this is widely accepted as his best ever year I assume these critics believe he did not deserve any of the previous 5 nominations. There is not a more consistent top performing world class sportsman in Britain today and for that alone he deserves recognition.
Totally agree bardot ... and i would be delighted if he won, whether people think he deserves it or not. Do I think he will win? .. No, of course not and others have said, he won't until he wins a GS. I don't follow any other sports closely but I am sure they are all worthy nominees.
Totally agree bardot ... and i would be delighted if he won, whether people think he deserves it or not. Do I think he will win? .. No, of course not and others have said, he won't until he wins a GS. I don't follow any other sports closely but I am sure they are all worthy nominees.
I totally agree Caro. What annoyed me was Yorkie did not think Andy should have been on the short list of nominees. Mr Cavendish may have achieved a lot in his sport, I do not follow cycling, I can cycle for hours in the gym but could not run for 4hrs on a tennis court for a match. Andy has so many shots in his repertoire.
supergran
30-11-2011, 16:39
Fully agree with bardot, Caro and rouges....Of course he deserves to be included after the year he has had. He has had a fantastic run.:cheer::clap::worship:
oh where to start here
well cav has had a good year but in a minority sport so who really cares, all the golfers in the list just goes to demonstrate what a weak era golf is in at the moment,
where as Andy is arguably in the golden era of tennis and his year has in fact been Stella, more than justifying his inclusion in the list
but for me there is only one winner ,mo taking on the Africans over long distances and winning not just one but two gold medals is truly unprecedented
and as for there being no women included tough luck and dont worry im sure the fashion awards will come along soon
He is the best in the world at what he does by such a margin and journalists have pointed out that if he were Belgian or Italian, or any nationality that takes cycling seriously, he would certainly be a favourite for an award like this!
I highly doubt it, tbh. We take cycling seriously only for Giro d'Italia. And even that it's way less popoular than it was in the past and if the award is given by public votes, I think only footballers or people with a strong PR team or a strong - and controversial - personality (Valentino Rossi, Federica Pellegrini or Alberto Tomba if we go back to the past) could stand a chance. Even someone like Valentina Vezzali would struggle a lot to be recognised as she deserves.
I fully agree with Alis and her post here, especially with these points:
I suppose everyone's view is dependent on how much you know about the various sports involved or how much publicity they are given.
[...]
Not many people will realise how well Andy has done this year - they will probably only remember that he lost to Djoko in Australia, was knocked out of Wimbledon in the semis, was injured at the WTF and hasn't won a major.
[...]
I do feel very sorry for the sportsmen/women who accomplish so much in sports that get very little press - sometimes even becoming world champions - but they never get the recognition they deserve and would be unlikely to be nominated for any award, much less the SPOTY.
Looking around I was amazed (and saddened) at how many people said "why him? He hasn't won a title this year" which just show at how little they can know of this sport.
Andy won more titles than Rafa and Fed this year. And if it's true none of them was a Major, he still won 2 Masters and the most prestigious 250 on the tour. But so many are not even aware of that.
But I guess we should be glad at least he is known! I know so many of our own sports athletes (some of which have held world records for years - if they aren't still holding them) general public have never heard of.
I'm not saying Andy should win it - altho considering Rusedski won it and Henman was awarded with a second place... and considering I'm not able to consider golf a sport and... :lol: ;) - but that's very hard to judge about it objectively.
I know compairing apples and oranges or in this case completly different sports is a mugs game that will only come up with argument and very little in the way of firm conclusion. I am not knocking Andy and do think 3 semis and a final in the grand slams and 5 other tournament victories 2 at the next level down from grand slam in an era of high quality for tennis is great. Tennis is also a sport where there is only one tour and the best play each other regularly. This is unlike for example golf where there are far fewer world wide events or boxing where people pick and choose their opponents, there are multiple "world champions" and those that there are except for the heavy weights are the best boxers who weigh within a certain very small weight range and in any case for me is not a "sport" but just brutality. So there is much to commend Andy being on the list
However I would hope that there are enough people in British sport who have reached the actual pinnacle of their chosen sport to get 10 names for us to vote on. Even deciding what the pinnacle is of course is open to further argument as for example do all three golfers fit that description - maybe they do. I'd certainly be saying Andy winning one slam event or becoming world number 1 would be sufficient so on that basis 3 golfers on the list this year is probably OK.
I know if you got such a list there would be quite a few we would each immediately say had no chance because they were not main stream sports or not sports we knew much about but I still think 10 people at their sports pinnacle would be better than the choice we have. In any case surprises can happen like I would never have thought Zara Philips would have stood a chance in the year she won at least partly because I know nothing of eventing but also because I would have thought most Brits would know little about this sport
My other problem is where individuals in team sports fit into this - despite cricket being my favourite sport though as I don't have sky I see fairly little of it these days and possibly partly because the real highlight of the Ashes win was early in the year rather than recently (actually when I look back most of that Ashes series happened in late 2010 though probably after nominations for this award were picked last year so does the ashes even count?) I'm sure if I had drawn up my own list I would not have included 2 cricketers. Its another case of apples and oranges that makes this whole award so subjective
I know we will never all agree on this and thats partly what makes sport so interesting.
This discussion has made me wonder how bad was British sport in 1997 when Rusedski could win this and Henman could come second on far lower results than Andy has acheived. Surely some where a British sports person actually won a major event that year.
I agree with you almost entirely Yorkie, but it's not just about sporting success, it's about personalities. There's no point in nominating world champions that even most sports fans haven't heard of.
That may say more about our media than anything, but it's the way the world is.
I agree with you almost entirely Yorkie, but it's not just about sporting success, it's about personalities. There's no point in nominating world champions that even most sports fans haven't heard of.
That may say more about our media than anything, but it's the way the world is.
To a large extent I can agree with you too but in my perfect world I would see it as a chance for someone who gets a limited amount of media attention to see a bit of the limelight so I would not be worried about 1 or 2 world champions in an event that is a real sporting acheivement even if I had not previously heard of them. For example the female triathlete (ironman version) Chrissie Wellington who has been suggested as one of the women who should have been on the list seems to fit that bill for me.
I'm sure she'll get her time in the spotlight on the night. SPOTY though? Na, not for me.
I know nothing about any sports other than tennis so can't really contribute much to this discussion.
I note, however, that the award is not for Sportsperson of the Year, but Sports Personality of the Year. Which suggests to me that it is not just for sporting achievement (however admirable that may be) but for doing something other of note to make one a 'personality'. For instance, a sports person may have got a lot of publicity for doing a sponsored walk for charity of the length of Britain (as I think Ian Botham did many years ago - and I'm pretty sure he's a past winner of the award). Or have I got the wrong end of the stick?
david1610
30-11-2011, 23:11
oh where to start here
well cav has had a good year but in a minority sport so who really cares,
Actually quite a lot will next year during the Olympics because looked at coldly and objectively cycling is one of the few sports where Great Britain has an excellent chance of several gold medals and there are not many other sports where that is true.
Please, let's not belittle achievements in other sports.
JAMES4578
01-12-2011, 07:40
Yes I think a lot of people will respect Cavendish and he has been very successful. Whilst we can maybe be a bit a biased about our favourite sport and star Andy had a fab year even if he's not yet reached the pinnacle of his sport.I don't think sports personality should just be for the "popular" sports and recognition shouldn't be solely based on media coverage. Whilst there is little to be gained from tokenism I believe a woman such as Chrissie Wellington had a strong case to be included and then it's up to the public who they wish to vote for.
I know nothing about any sports other than tennis so can't really contribute much to this discussion.
I note, however, that the award is not for Sportsperson of the Year, but Sports Personality of the Year. Which suggests to me that it is not just for sporting achievement (however admirable that may be) but for doing something other of note to make one a 'personality'. For instance, a sports person may have got a lot of publicity for doing a sponsored walk for charity of the length of Britain (as I think Ian Botham did many years ago - and I'm pretty sure he's a past winner of the award). Or have I got the wrong end of the stick?
Hi Linda,
It might be called sports personality of the year but in general its for really significant sporting achievement but I guess other things may come into it too. Botham won the award in 1981 the year of his amazing Ashes achievements bringing England back from the dead against the main foe of Australia. I see however he did come second in 1985 which I am not sure what his cricketing acheivements were that year but it was the year of his first charity walk so maybe that did have a reasonable influence that time but he was beaten by Barry McGuigan in a year when his boxing achievements (much as I hate boxing) were headline news and prime time sport viewing for much of the nation. I gues there can be multiple reasons for some people being on the list but most winners will have got it for being right at the pinnacle of their sport. However there are always exceptions like Ryan Giggs winning it a couple of years ago which to me made no sense but in effect it was getting it almost like a life time acheivement award. So yes thats another area where this award can spark significant debate.
supergran
01-12-2011, 08:30
BBC Sports Personality of the Year is awarded for sporting achievements which have impressed the voting panel and latterly the public since that vote was introduced. Personality is just a matter of semantics. Used before "person" became popular as a neutral gender word. The problem, if there is one, lies in the selection and voting by the press as it is subjective and one person might award a high score to someone they personally admire and a low score to someone equally as worthy but not to their taste. Thus the short list is drawn up. You have to take into account that 27 national and regional publications were asked to nominate. As some of the magazines are of poor quality and contain very little or no sport eg some of the weekly Women's magazines which concentrate on Celebrity and sensational stories of human interest it is not surprising that little is known about certain sportsmen and many sportswomen. It should be awarded for sporting achievement/excellence and NOT for anything that has been done outside the area of sport. But as we have many dumbed-down publications in this country sometimes some nominations come as a surprise or shouldn't be there at all. It's all very subjective and perhaps, these days, should be taken with a pinch of salt if not a large G & T.
I think in this day and age there is an argument to giving the public some input into the 10 contenders via an online poll. Not the complete decision though to avoid another Bob Nudd (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Nudd).
I think in this day and age there is an argument to giving the public some input into the 10 contenders via an online poll. Not the complete decision though to avoid another Bob Nudd (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Nudd).
If my memory serves me right I think at one stage there was a public nomination to get the 10 shortlisted but they went to a pannel of sports editors quite a few years ago. maybe it was Bob Nudd that encouraged them to move to a pannel to get the shortlist. There have been a number of different methods over the years and I'm sure this years controversy over no women on the list may well lead to a further change for next year.
I'm sure she'll get her time in the spotlight on the night. SPOTY though? Na, not for me.
By being in the top 10 though there is the chance to get seen wider as the top 10 do get profiled in various places before the night and in any case without the controversy over the top 10 list Chrissie might well have just got a "and here are our other world champions" 5 to 10 second profile. I can agree that I would be unlikely to vote for her to be the winner but would see it as fine for to be in the top 10 in my ideal world view for this award.
By the way I think its fantastic that we can be on a web site devoted to one person and have a really civilised discussion where some people think he should be in the top 10 list and others (despite thinking he has acheived a lot) think he should not. From what I have heard about certain other websites I'm not sure this discussion would have been allowed on one devoted to a certain Swiss chap. I think the nearest we have come to a personal insult is something like "shame on you Yorkie" and I am just about man enough to brush that off without bursting into tears:wink: This is one of the main reasons I really appreciate this and its predecessor web sites.
Sallydaisy
01-12-2011, 14:19
Interesting that the BBC have today announced that it'll review the process for choosing nominations for the SPOTY's as of next year ...
Extract below, in full read here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/sports_personality/15970401.stm
;)
A BBC statement said: "We stand by the current process but have committed to take on board what happened this year.
"We will review the shortlisting process for next year's show."
The statement continued: "It is too early to say what, if any, changes will be made to the process but please rest assured that we will seek the opinions of people both within and outside of the BBC before deciding on the appropriate methodology for 2012."
KnightOwl
01-12-2011, 14:19
Well said, Yorkie - I quite agree!
By the way I think its fantastic that we can be on a web site devoted to one person and have a really civilised discussion where some people think he should be in the top 10 list and others (despite thinking he has acheived a lot) think he should not. From what I have heard about certain other websites I'm not sure this discussion would have been allowed on one devoted to a certain Swiss chap. I think the nearest we have come to a personal insult is something like "shame on you Yorkie" and I am just about man enough to brush that off without bursting into tears:wink: This is one of the main reasons I really appreciate this and its predecessor web sites.
"Shame on you" was said out of Frustration, it was never meant to be an insult. I apologise if that's what you thought.
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/sport/sport-headlines/aw%2c-bless%2c-sportswomen-told-201112014619/
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/sport/sport-headlines/aw%2c-bless%2c-sportswomen-told-201112014619/an article i fully agree with ,:thumbup:
"Shame on you" was said in Frustration, it was never meant to be an insult. I apologise if that you thought.
Sorry my sarcastic humour obviously did not come across - it might have helped if my wink had come out as a proper smiley but the wink smiley did not work for me. I know it was not an insult and I picked it out because that was the closest we got to an insult to emphasise how good natured the debate has been. So I can assure you that you had absolutely no reason to apologise.
Andy won the Scottish Sports Personality of the Year award tonight, Judy was there to receive the award on his behalf. The other nominees were Dario Franchitti, Gary Anderson, John Higgins, Katherine Grainger & Ricky Burns.
Anyone feel he was unworthy of this honour? ;)
woohoo Andy :cheer::cheer:
supergran
01-12-2011, 23:33
Brilliant!! That will mean a lot to Andy......Well done!!!:cheer::cheer::clap::clap:
MurrayAOne
01-12-2011, 23:35
Glad to see I'm not alone in thinking Cav should win.
Sorry but I don't think he has the slightest chance of winning and my personal opinion is despite all Andy has acheived he has not acheived the pinnacle of his sport where others who have not even been nominated have and I don't see that as right. Its a personal opinion and I knew some on here might disagree but that won't change my opinion. Hopefully next year I won't be saying the same because Andy will have won a slam event (or even better more than one)
This seems like a clear cut issue to me depending on how you view the competition. If, as you see it Yorkie, it is just about achieving the pinnacle of your sport then why bother having a vote at all? It could just be awarded on results. He who wins most wins. But, as I see it, it is not just about that. It is about commitment, work, determination, dedication and NEVER giving up. And if Andy Murray does not deserve to be on THAT list then I don't know who does.
Sallydaisy
02-12-2011, 00:28
It could just be awarded on results. He who wins most wins.
Just my observation but how/who would judge who had won the most? And based on what results?
There is such a huge variety of sports, how they are structured and whether they are team or individual events and they all have different methods of recording 'victories', 'wins' and 'results'.
Which is better? How to decide?
100 centuries in test cricket? Breaking a world sprint record? Beating the other top players in a single year in a racquet sport? Winning just one crucial boxing match in a year? There are just so many variables.
Cricket is a good example - what is a winner? Most runs or centuries in a season? Most county caps? Best result in a 20/20? In tennis there'd be an eternal, and infernal argument, raging over whether it's best to post the 'most wins' or the wins that are most respected in the sport i.e. the Slams or the Olympics.
It's a minefield and there's really no easy solution.
:hmm:
You'd have to get each and every 'sport' to sit down first and agree what they regard as the best result to warrant a nomination for Spoty and then get them all to agree with one another. And then hope that a sportsman actually achieved that designated result in a year or we could end up with no nominees at all
And can you imagine the criteria for judging the best result to count in beach volleyball?
;)
MurrayAOne
02-12-2011, 00:34
Just my observation but how/who would judge who had won the most? And based on what results?
There is such a huge variety of sports, how they are structured and whether they are team or individual events and they all have different methods of recording 'victories', 'wins' and 'results'.
Which is better? How to decide?
100 centuries in test cricket? Breaking a world sprint record? Beating the other top players in a single year in a racquet sport? Winning just one crucial boxing match in a year? There are just so many variables.
Cricket is a good example - what is a winner? Most runs or centuries in a season? Most county caps? Best result in a 20/20? In tennis there'd be an eternal, and infernal argument, raging over whether it's best to post the 'most wins' or the wins that are most respected in the sport i.e. the Slams or the Olympics.
It's a minefield and there's really no easy solution.
:hmm:
You'd have to get each and every 'sport' to sit down first and agree what they regard as the best result to warrant a nomination for Spoty and then get them all to agree with one another. And then hope that a sportsman actually achieved that designated result in a year or we could end up with no nominees at all
And can you imagine the criteria for judging the best result to count in beach volleyball?
But this was exactly my point Sally. I DON'T think it should be awarded just on results for those reasons. My comment was highlighting the fact that there would be no point in voting if it was awarded on results.
MurrayAOne
02-12-2011, 00:36
I realise I've used the quote incorrectly but don't know how to fix it.Sorry!!!
Sallydaisy
02-12-2011, 00:39
I realise I've used the quote incorrectly but don't know how to fix it.Sorry!!!
Don't worry - all that's missing is a forward slash before the Q in the last [QUOTE] which should look like this /QUOTE inside the brackets.
MurrayAOne
02-12-2011, 00:48
Thanks Sally.
By the way I think its fantastic that we can be on a web site devoted to one person and have a really civilised discussion where some people think he should be in the top 10 list and others (despite thinking he has acheived a lot) think he should not. From what I have heard about certain other websites I'm not sure this discussion would have been allowed on one devoted to a certain Swiss chap. I think the nearest we have come to a personal insult is something like "shame on you Yorkie" and I am just about man enough to brush that off without bursting into tears:wink: This is one of the main reasons I really appreciate this and its predecessor web sites.
I agree with this. Thanks to everyone for your contributions to this topic. I have really enjoyed reading all the comments and discussions. :thumbup:
Sorry my sarcastic humour obviously did not come across - it might have helped if my wink had come out as a proper smiley but the wink smiley did not work for me. I know it was not an insult and I picked it out because that was the closest we got to an insult to emphasise how good natured the debate has been. So I can assure you that you had absolutely no reason to apologise.
Wink is ; )
without the space obviously
Andy won the Scottish Sports Personality of the Year award tonight, Judy was there to receive the award on his behalf. The other nominees were Dario Franchitti, Gary Anderson, John Higgins, Katherine Grainger & Ricky Burns.
Anyone feel he was unworthy of this honour? ;)
Not at all. I might have gone for Dario but can't argue with their choice!
has to be said we arnt really spoilt for choice
JAMES4578
02-12-2011, 10:35
Still glad Andy got the award, well done!
Congratulations to Andy - well deserved. :clap: :swingin:
Shame it wasn't the main title.
Kathleen Grainger is the only other athlete worthy of the title in that list.
but receiving the SCOTTISH award is the kiss of death for andy so far as SPOTY goes, will incense the ABM (anyone but murray) brigade.
in some ways, i think being nominated, and failing, every year, is disheartening, always the bridesmaid, like his slam record. i'd rather he was only nominated we there was a real chance if winning - can he decline to be nominated?
congrats to Andy on the award :clap::clap:
Great! Well done Andy :cheer:
but receiving the SCOTTISH award is the kiss of death for andy so far as SPOTY goes, will incense the ABM (anyone but murray) brigade.
in some ways, i think being nominated, and failing, every year, is disheartening, always the bridesmaid, like his slam record. i'd rather he was only nominated we there was a real chance if winning - can he decline to be nominated?
I think that was also partly my thinking as to why in my ideal world I would not have had Andy in the top 10 short list
This seems like a clear cut issue to me depending on how you view the competition. If, as you see it Yorkie, it is just about achieving the pinnacle of your sport then why bother having a vote at all? It could just be awarded on results. He who wins most wins. But, as I see it, it is not just about that. It is about . And if Andy Murray does not deserve to be on THAT list then I don't know who does.
As Sally says you can't easily compare pinnacles of each sport and personally I am even happy to have say 3 golfers as is the case in the list because they each in their own way have reached a pinnacle if a different pinnacle. So there would still be plenty to vote on in my scenario its certainly not a mathematical formula. I'm not sure exactly how I've phrased it but I can confirm I do see reasons for Andy to be on the list but I would be quite comfortable if he was not and others that have reached the heights in their sports were on instead.
has to be said we arnt really spoilt for choice
Said by a true Scot but as an Englishmen I think I have to say "you might say that but I couldn't possibly comment"
Why do we always have to find the negatives in everything? :grrr:
And can you imagine the criteria for judging the best result to count in beach volleyball?
;)
I'm sure we could find some volunteers on here to take on the job of coming up with a criteria so long as the job included lots of field, or should I say beach, research ;)
MurrayAOne
02-12-2011, 16:26
I'm sure we could find some volunteers on here to take on the job of coming up with a criteria so long as the job included lots of field, or should I say beach, research ;)
I don't appear to have made myself clear here. So, to clarify. I DON'T think that SPOTY should be based on 'who wins most wins' at all. It seemed that previous comments suggested that the criteria was that every Sportsperson should have reached the 'pinnacle' in order to be considered a worthy nominee. I consider Andy's commitment, work ethic, dedication, talent AND success to be reason enough for him to be on any sports award list. He is a fine ambassador for his sport and his country and his exclusion from such a competition, I feel, would not have been right.
I don't appear to have made myself clear here. So, to clarify. I DON'T think that SPOTY should be based on 'who wins most wins' at all. It seemed that previous comments suggested that the criteria was that every Sportsperson should have reached the 'pinnacle' in order to be considered a worthy nominee. I consider Andy's commitment, work ethic, dedication, talent AND success to be reason enough for him to be on any sports award list. He is a fine ambassador for his sport and his country and his exclusion from such a competition, I feel, would not have been right.
I understood your point fine and its a perfectly valid opinion. Its just for me I want to have a list of people right at the top of their sports (and I know Andy is very close but until he wins a slam he is not right at the top) but your analysis of that implying it could be almost a mathematical formula was what I did not agree with. For me those who reach the pinnacle of a sport worthy of consideration (and I know thats another can of worms) will almost certainly have shown commitment, work ethic, dedication and talent so my main criteria is degree of success. For example I would say Mark Cavendish shows all of the above to a similar level to Andy but has this year reached the pinnacles of his particular discipline.
Its apples and oranges again neither opinion is right or wrong we just have different opinions.
i think part of the problem is there isnt what you would call a peak moment in andys year, he has done it all before and could be judged as the same auld same auld, if any other British player had come from no where (or as is so emphatically demonstrate by Messrs henman and "the Canadian" )and replicated any one of andys achievements this year , they no doubt would be lauded so perhaps we should see it as a compliment to andys consistency over the last few years that it is even up for debate whether he is worthy of a nomination or not
Congratulations to Andy on winning the Scottish SPOTY! :clap: :clap:
It seems to me that there are so many different sports (most of which, as I said before, I know very little about) that it must be extremely difficult to come up with a shortlist of just 10 sportspeople. There must be plenty of others deserving of a place in the shortlist as well, but obviously they can't all be included (or it would be a longlist :rolling:).
That makes a lot of sense J. If this was his first year at number 4 in the world I would probably not have had as much a thought he should not be on the list and despite in slam terms and maybe even ranking points it being his best year he has still ended up at number 4. Andy needs to win a slam to be a genuine contender for this award.
That makes a lot of sense J. If this was his first year at number 4 in the world I would probably not have had as much a thought he should not be on the list and despite in slam terms and maybe even ranking points it being his best year he has still ended up at number 4. Andy needs to win a slam to be a genuine contender for this award.he could win all four aND will still not win SPOTY, IMO
Of course he would win it if he won all four!!!!!!!
of course he would win it if he won all four!!!!!!!well let wait and see , hopefully next year he will prove me right ;)
MurrayAOne
02-12-2011, 17:35
I understood your point fine and its a perfectly valid opinion. Its just for me I want to have a list of people right at the top of their sports (and I know Andy is very close but until he wins a slam he is not right at the top) but your analysis of that implying it could be almost a mathematical formula was what I did not agree with. For me those who reach the pinnacle of a sport worthy of consideration (and I know thats another can of worms) will almost certainly have shown commitment, work ethic, dedication and talent so my main criteria is degree of success. For example I would say Mark Cavendish shows all of the above to a similar level to Andy but has this year reached the pinnacles of his particular discipline.
Its apples and oranges again neither opinion is right or wrong we just have different opinions.
I agree we do have different opinions and that is fine. Healthy debates are a very good thing! I didn't clarify my point in an effort to dissuade by the way. Can I ask are you a particular cycling fan?
VamosVixs
02-12-2011, 17:39
Congrats Andy!! :cheer:
Just a question from a (complete) outsider: the shortlist is picked counting the votes the athletes get from various newspapers, isn't it? Who picks these newspaper (BBC, I assume, but according which criteria)? Do they have any guide-lines to make their picks? If I remember right one of those newspapers picked almost all footballers, which is kind of a shame (and could risk to devoid this award of great part of its meaning) imo.
And obviously congrats to Andy for the Scottish Award :)
I agree we do have different opinions and that is fine. Healthy debates are a very good thing! I didn't clarify my point in an effort to dissuade by the way. Can I ask are you a particular cycling fan?
I have followed the Tour de France for quite a few years but generally thats all we get to see here. Its got more interesting from a British perspective in recent years as Brits have been making real progress in recent years. I remember we were in the Isle of Man (where Cavendish comes from) when he won his first two stages of the Tour and that probably added to my interest in him. However the interest has only run to reading short bits in newspapers watching the Tour and this year the World Championships. I follow Andy with much more interest and I'd take an Andy slam win next year over Cavendish say getting a gold at the olympics (though I'd obviously prefer both). So I'm not suggesting Cavendish because he is my preferred sportsman but much more for his actual acheivements this year.
MurrayAOne
02-12-2011, 20:24
Fair enough. I have to confess to not seeing much cycling. I did however, find the cycling races in the melodrome very excitingand look forward to watching in the Olympics. Much prefer that to the Tours. I think we must agree to differ on the other subject though!!! Andy perfect nominee!!!!!!!!! Just getting another sneaky one in! GO ANDYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!
jeannie13
02-12-2011, 21:47
Congratulations to Andy for winning the scottish sportsperson award-much merited.:highfive::cheer:
Does anyone else think like me that Djokovic will get overseas sports personality award - or am I missing other possible contenders?
The show is on Thursday so not long to wait.
I suspect you may well be right. Only other one I can think of is Messi purely because of football's popularity.
JAMES4578
20-12-2011, 15:42
Personally I think Djokovic would be a more worthy winnner and I hope he prevails.
Does the overseas personality depend on viewers' votes? If so Djoko will probably lose out as tennis is not a popular sport - if it is up to the sports pundits he may well win.
JAMES4578
20-12-2011, 22:34
Does the overseas personality depend on viewers' votes? If so Djoko will probably lose out as tennis is not a popular sport - if it is up to the sports pundits he may well win.
Tennis may not be the top sport but I don't think it's exactly "unpopular" Anyway the public don't have a say on this award.
Hasn't the Fed been Overseas Personality on at least a couple of occasions and showed little appreciation of the award? So there should be no reason why Novak shouldn't have a chance. :santa dance:
Sallydaisy
22-12-2011, 20:14
Ah, Andy is the only personality not there ... so he got mega sized piccies put up instead which meant everyone saw him better!!!
:big grin:
If you want to vote for Andy this is the number to call (UK residents only)
09015 22 26 09
Sallydaisy
22-12-2011, 20:46
I enjoyed Andy's bit - good to have David Haye in there fighting his corner too!
:thumbup:
Yes, I thought he came over well, and it was good to hear McEnroe's comments as well.
I'm wishing Andy a great 2012. With him all the way.
Well done to Djoko for winning overseas personality - I thought he would get it but I hadn't thought about Sebastian Vettel - glad that Noel won though.
supergran
22-12-2011, 21:15
Public vote so let's vote!! 09015 22 26 09! We can do this if we phone!!
Winner - Mark Cavendish
2nd - Darren Clarke
3rd - Mo Farah
Be nice to see Andy do it some day, but Cav is a very well-deserved winner. Obviously was ignoring the bookies when he hadn't prepared a speech lol.
Unfortunately a visitor came round and I missed both Andy's bit and Cavendish.
Well as you might guess I think the right person won the main award tonight though I don't think Cavendish will get any awards for public speaking and I think it was right for Djoko to win too.
Next year hopefully Andy can be a real contender having won a slam event though unless its Wimbledon or he acheives multiple slam wins I suspect even that might not be enough in the year of the London olympics but if he wins a slam he will have a genuine chance.
MurrayAOne
22-12-2011, 22:35
He was a real contender this year and I know what you mean about the speech but I thought it was genuine and full of integrity. Well done that man.
Problem next year is that irrespective of what Andy does in the Slams, a successful Olympian will be ahead of him!
Only one way to get around that...
MurrayAOne
22-12-2011, 22:52
Yes, I thought he came over well, and it was good to hear McEnroe's comments as well.
I'm wishing Andy a great 2012. With him all the way.
I have always said Andy has hands like John. Good to hear the man himself say it!!!
hfwardhouse
22-12-2011, 23:01
The breakdown of the results is in ...
Breakdown of the vote:
Mark Cavendish 169,152 (49.47%)
Darren Clarke 42,188 (12.34%)
Mo Farah 29,780 (8.71%)
Luke Donald 23,854 (6.98%)
Andy Murray 18,754 (5.48%)
Andrew Strauss 17,994 (5.26%)
Alastair Cook 13,038 (3.81%)
Rory McIlroy 11,915 (3.48%)
Dai Greene 9,022 (2.64%)
Amir Khan 6,262 (1.83%)
Andy was up in 5th :)
MurrayAOne
22-12-2011, 23:03
Well in Andy!! No 1 in my book EVERY time!!!
JAMES4578
22-12-2011, 23:09
Think Cavendish was a worthy winner and it was an overwhelming victory, really don't think it matters if he was a touch nervous. Thought Farrah would have polled more votes though with his achievements. It certainly was a decent show for Andy and it was his highest ever placing, though of course we'd like him to be right up there! Wouldn't have thought that for instance he would have beaten McIlroy, though of course the golfing vote would have been split somewhat.
With all the negativity (some of it on here) about his nomination, 5th place is an excellent result and shows how many dedicated fans he has who appreciate his consistent achievements at the highest level.
MurrayAOne
22-12-2011, 23:19
With all the negativity (some of it on here) about his nomination, 5th place is an excellent result and shows how many dedicated fans he has who appreciate his consistent achievements at the highest level.
Well said. I also think it's an indication that the majority do value Andy but it is the minority voice that gets the attention. Negative sells - positive doesn't. Don't care though. Won't effect my support. We know our boy is THE BEST!!!
Am glad that Andy came 5th. He did really well! :) Shows he is well liked by many!
Not surprised Cav got landslide and that Amir Khan came last as his last result was a loss unfair or otherwise
Well said. I also think it's an indication that the majority do value Andy but it is the minority voice that gets the attention. Negative sells - positive doesn't. Don't care though. Won't effect my support. We know our boy is THE BEST!!!
An example of the negativity was Clare Balding on 5Live and twitter who in justifying her statement that Andy shouldn't have been nominated was that he himself would agree that he has had a disappointing year!
MurrayAOne
22-12-2011, 23:32
An example of the negativity was Clare Balding on 5Live and twitter who in justifying her statement that Andy shouldn't have been nominated was that he himself would agree that he has had a disappointing year!
What a ridiculous statement. She needs to check his comments. Some people don't deserve the wear with all to air their views/ Sloppy journalism.
Sallydaisy
22-12-2011, 23:33
Landslide win for Mark Cavendish!!!
He got as many votes as the other 9 altogether.
I think Andy did really well to come 5th.
:thumbup:
Mark Cavendish 169,152 (49.47%)
Darren Clarke 42,188 (12.34%)
Mo Farah 29,780 (8.71%)
Luke Donald 23,854 (6.98%)
Andy Murray 18,754 (5.48%)
Andrew Strauss 17,994 (5.26%)
Alastair Cook 13,038 (3.81%)
Rory McIlroy 11,915 (3.48%)
Dai Greene 9,022 (2.64%)
Amir Khan 6,262 (1.83%)
The breakdown of the results is in ...
Andy was up in 5th :)
I'm amazed that Cav got nearly half the votes and about 4 times as many as second place I would have expected it to be quite a bit closer. Cavendish had pulled himself together a bit more when he had 5 or 10 minutes on the 5 live follow up show. I can agree that his acceptance speech in some ways spoke volumes about the man and it was in some ways quite touching.
I am surprised Andy beat Rory and a little surprised the Welsh did not get behind Dai a little more and 5th was certainly higher than I thought likely for Andy so well done. I think the fact that Darren Clarke got 3 or 4 times as many votes as Rory when they both won majors but Darren won the British event and Rory won one in the US shows Andy probably needs to win Wimbledon to win this and a non Wimbledon slam is probably not enough. However unless things take a dramatic turn for the good he is unlikely to have the problem of two othe tennis players being on the list like Rory had.
david1610
23-12-2011, 05:52
I am personally very happy for Cav and I actually think that the vote shows that the British sporting public can recognize sporting achievement outside the most popular sports.
I think in the end Cavendish deserved to win, though I thought Rory might have been higher in the polls. Pleased Andy got 5th which is his highest yet.
Not wanting to sound obsessed with Clare Balding but quite an amusing rant from her on twitter last night in response to Jonathan Overend last night. After he found out the voting breakdown he tweeted
@5livetennis
Keep up the good work @clarebalding1 but Murray coming 5th in the poll more than justifies his inclusion after a best ever year.
A few hours later a bruised Clare Balding responded with the following 3 tweets. Is she writing off Andy at age 24? :laugh:
@clarebalding1
@5livetennis fair enough but when he comes to write his book, if 2011 is his highlight we'll all be disappointed. Andy most of all
She won't let it lie.
@clarebalding1
@5livetennis with 5% of the vote? It's not a triumph I'd shout about too loudly
@clarebalding1
@5livetennis btw, I did interview Oliver Golding on the One Show just in case you think I'm anti-tennis, which as you well know I'm not
She also tweeted this morning about how impressive it was for Luke Donald and Mo Farah to make the journey from the States which could be considered a dig at Andy for not attending but I'll give her the benefit of the doubt. ;)
lankster2003
23-12-2011, 10:53
Glad I don't follow Clare then, though I do think she has been known to make valid points in the past. She can't make a dig at Andy for not being there. For most it is the off season (which it is for Andy too) but others can squeeze it in more easily. Becky Adlington couldn't make it because of here training commitments and pretty sure (though not certain) she's in the UK.
Cav definitely deserved to win the award as he is an outstanding athlete who acheived the ultimate (well 2 actually) accolades in his sport. I also thought Dai Greene is extremely well spoken.
Andy hasn't attended the event when he's been nominated in previous years and if he's in contention next year I doubt he'll be there. He wouldn't be the first nominee for whom a live link has been arranged although it's likely to be from the tennis court given where he was yesterday. ;)
http://twitter.com/#!/danielvallverdu/status/150052361845477378
lankster2003
23-12-2011, 11:25
Joe Calzaghe was Stateside when he won it I'm pretty sure as he fought the night before
Sallydaisy
23-12-2011, 11:25
There's been a few instances of nominees not being there to accept the main award.
IIRC Joe Calzaghe received his via video link not so long ago.
They'd have had to have Andy on standby just in case given that the voting window is short and in theory any of the 10 could have won it.
VamosVixs
23-12-2011, 12:02
Like someone mentioned on twitter, It would be detrimental to Andy's preparation to take two 9 hour flights and then a 19 hour flight to Oz in the last week of his training block as it's only a week or so away till Brisbane starts. I would never expect Andy to physically be there. But they wouldn't probably see that. :rolleyes:
Saw bits and pieces of this. Not surprised at result - well done Mark!
Andy did have a good year - but we hope for an even better one to come!!
I really think that whatever Andy does - nominated or not; flies over from Miami or not; wins the whole thing even - a negative slant will be the default. I thought some of the 5Live naysayers comments were well out of order; so I'm pleased he made a good showing.
I'm just really happy that Andy seems well-motivated again and making progress, which I hope will continue next year.
david1610
23-12-2011, 12:18
Don't forget that the SPOTY will be contesting the very first gold medal of the Olympics. I do believe that moods can be set early on in Olympics and I am sure all the top British sportsmen and women would love Cav to get off to a winning start - the longer GB takes to get its first gold when hosting the games, the more pressure it will put on everyone!
PS I am sure next years SPOTY will be Olympics results based and I am also sure that if Andy wins gold or every wins a GS he will be SPOTY. Until then don't forget he is competing against others who are the best in the world at what they do. Andy can lose for positive reasons, if you see what I mean!
Tie-break
23-12-2011, 12:22
Delighted that Cav won but was surprised at the size of his victory over a very strong field. Who would have thought it - maybe more people watch cycling than I thought. I think his humble acceptance speech will make him even more friends.
I thought Nole would be a shoe-in for overseas personality and was quite surprised to be right for once. Fed has won on several occasions - hasn't Rafa won too? I think that underlines the calibre at the top of tennis and the excellence of the era that Andy is competing in.
And I am glad that Andy didn't interrupt his prepartions to attend - he's got his priorities right!
I think the fact that Darren Clarke got 3 or 4 times as many votes as Rory when they both won majors but Darren won the British event and Rory won one in the US
I suspect the difference may be more down to the adversity that Darren has come through before acheiving his major. Rory is great when he's on fire, but has a tendency to spit the dummy and blame everyone/thing bar himself when things aren't working. Don't get me wrong i'm still a massive fan.
LC the fan
23-12-2011, 15:20
I agree it was probably the adversity that Darren Clarke has overcome - and his increasing years. Shame for Luke and Rory though - the golf vote was obviously split.
Must admit even I (as his great fan) was a little surprised to see Andy come in 5th - obviously the British public are more appreciative of his tennis than we think..........or were you all multi-dialling..... ???
Do wish though that they had mentioned the reason why Andy could not be there. Some people could have thought that churlish rather than total dedication to his sport
Happy that Cav won by a huge margin - very well deserved - and Nole got the overseas award over presumably Vettel. I'd have thought that Rory would have been ahead of Darren as his US Open victory was far more impressive but I guess it was the popularity side that won there. Like Andy Luke needs to win a major before he gets into the reckoning. Enjoyed the show and glad that Sir Steve who must be one of the greatest sportsmen ever produced in this country was awarded the liftetime achievement. It was great that Sir Steve did not dwell on himself and his achievements but brought his charity work into it. :santa dance:
JAMES4578
23-12-2011, 20:25
Yes brilliant that Sir steve got the lifetime achievement award and as usual he was so gracious. Think it's fair to say he he is so respected whether you arev a rowing fan or not.
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.