View Full Version : Wimbledon pretournament discussion regarding points
Wimbledon stripped of it's ATP ranking points.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/61401519
JAMES4578
20-05-2022, 18:04
More detail in the ATP Statement https://www.atptour.com/en/news/atp-statement-removal-of-ranking-points-wimbledon-2022
If Nole loses his no 1 spot, what player is most likely to be no 1 as a result? It would be ironic if it was Medvedev.
Speedy Hawk
20-05-2022, 21:32
Apparently lot of younger players and lower ranked players not happy with ATP cos they need ranking points enter other tournaments and Wimbledon is important to play in. So this probably hurt them most and Nole too.
Wimbledon stripped of it's ATP ranking points.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/61401519
Obviously a political topic but directly related to tennis in this instance. Players from Russia and Belarus are not banned from Wimbledon. They have a choice. If they support Putin and the war against Ukraine that's their choice. What the ATP and WTA are doing in my opinion, is making a martyr out of Russia and punishing non Russian and Belarusian players at the same time. This is not simply a case of outright discrimination against nationalities. It's far more complex.
JAMES4578
21-05-2022, 13:27
All Russian and Belarussian players are banned from Wimbledon regardless, the idea of asking for written statements as a condition of entry was rejected . Wimbledon's response here https://www.wimbledon.com/en_GB/news/articles/2022-05-20/statement_regarding_atp_wta_itf_ranking_points_at_ the_championships.html
Thanks James. Doesn't change my overall view however.
It is also biased against the lower ranked british tennis players who get wild cards - for whom it may the only opportunity to play in a grand slam and get some points.
I think it’s incredibly difficult, but the mad man Putin is razing Ukraine to dust. They can’t let Russian and Belarusian players just carry on as though nothing has happened.
Russia would milk the propaganda for all its worth.
Sergiy Stakhovsky who kindly removed Federer is fighting for his country.
I think there should still be points.
banskogirl
23-05-2022, 21:50
I think there will be much more propaganda for Putin from this than there would have been from his country's players giving their winnings to Ukraine and playing without the Russian flag. He might have found that harder to explain and gave more decent Russians pause for thought. IMHO.
suttontennis
24-05-2022, 11:57
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/61553327
fine, don't turn up. She probably wouldn't get past round one anyway. To say Wimbledon would be like an exhibition is insulting. Regardless of the circumstances, she's only missing out on points. The prize money (obviously unimportant) and the TITLE OF WIMBLEDON CHAMPION are still there.
I think there will be much more propaganda for Putin from this than there would have been from his country's players giving their winnings to Ukraine and playing without the Russian flag. He might have found that harder to explain and gave more decent Russians pause for thought. IMHO.
I doubt the Russian populace would get to hear of prize money going to Ukraine or players not playing under the Russian flag. But the ATP have now championed the Russian cause by withdrawing ranking points ostensibly in their support.... or so it can be portrayed I fear.
BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/61581379) - Andy Murray says Wimbledon will never be an exhibition, even without ranking points
Times (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/wimbledon-threatens-legal-action-over-rankings-row-b0zbc8dsv)- Wimbledon threatens legal action over rankings row
Wimbledon is exploring the possibility of legal action against the men’s and women’s tennis tours as the row over the removal of world ranking points from the event intensified on Tuesday.
Sources have told The Times that discussions have already taken place with lawyers surrounding a potential breach in the long-standing agreement with the governing bodies — the Association of Tennis Professionals (ATP) and the Women’s Tennis Association (WTA) — that allows the All England Club to offer points for match wins at the championships.
It is understood that the other grand-slam tournaments — the Australian Open, French Open and US Open — are considering offering their support as part of a joint action.
Times (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/fans-wont-desert-wimbledon-but-a-few-players-could-9nrz5p7qv) - Fans won’t desert Wimbledon . . . but a few players could
Attempts by the UK government this week to persuade the ATP and WTA not to strip Wimbledon of ranking points fell on deaf ears. The culture secretary, Nadine Dorries, wrote to tour officials warning them of the dangers of such a move and responded to Friday’s announcement by proposing a rethink. “We deeply regret today’s decision and urge the ATP, WTA and the ITF to consider their stance on ranking points at the Championships,” Dorries said. “It does not send the right message to either [Vladimir] Putin or the people of Ukraine.”
Now, we wait to see what impact this has on the strength of the player field at Wimbledon. A cheque in the region of £50,000 for first-round losers will still be appealing enough for many competitors lower down the food chain, but one prominent agent told The Sunday Times on a condition of anonymity yesterday that he believes some of the top female players “don’t want to play”. The entry list is due to be published during the week starting May 30.
Times (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/john-mcenroe-players-should-boycott-wimbledon-over-russian-ban-fj6fvb8f9) - John McEnroe squares up to Tim Henman over Russia ban
McEnroe sparked a debate live on television with his fellow Eurosport pundit Tim Henman, a member of the All England Club’s board who was directly involved in the discussions surrounding the ban. The American questioned the logic of such a move, although he undermined his argument by failing to realise Belarus’s support for Russia in its invasion of Ukraine.
“I think it was a mistake by Wimbledon to do what they did in the first place, kicking out the Russians and Belarusians,” McEnroe said. “I don’t know how they came up with the Belarusians, too, but that’s a whole other story.
“That’s my opinion, compounded by the fact that now the ATP and WTA say no [ranking] points, I don’t see how that helps the players. If the players really believe that Wimbledon had made a big mistake by not allowing the Russian and Belarusian players to play, they should have boycotted the tournament.”
Henman acknowledged that there are “no winners” and put on record his “enormous sympathy for the Russians and the Belarusian players that cannot play”. However, the former British No 1 was adamant that Wimbledon could not go against informal guidance issued by the UK government.
“When you go through the circumstances that are presented for Wimbledon, the directive from the government is that the players are not allowed to play as neutral athletes, as has been on the tour,” Henman said.
“So the question in return is: are Wimbledon expected to turn around, given their status in the UK, and say to the government: ‘Actually we think we know better than you, the government, so we’re going to do something different.’ That’s not going to happen.”
Henman also refuted the possibility of players signing a written declaration denouncing the Russian and Belarusian regimes. “There’s no way that they’re gonna jeopardise the safety of players and their extended family,” he said. “That’s before you talk about the propaganda of a Russian or Belarusian receiving a trophy on centre court, potentially, in the second week of Wimbledon.”
Pretty typically ill thought out from Mac I think.
Rosalind
26-05-2022, 12:24
Cameron's comments on it. It's crazy to say that there's no point playing!
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/tennis/wimbledon-cameron-norrie-british-emma-raducanu-wta-b2084674.html
exislander
26-05-2022, 13:38
If some of those who do not need the money decide not to play because of no ranking points it will leave some spaces for lower ranked players who may be very glad of the money despite gaining no points.
If some of those who do not need the money decide not to play because of no ranking points it will leave some spaces for lower ranked players who may be very glad of the money despite gaining no points.
....... and the kudos!
banskogirl
27-05-2022, 15:27
I doubt the Russian populace would get to hear of prize money going to Ukraine or players not playing under the Russian flag. But the ATP have now championed the Russian cause by withdrawing ranking points ostensibly in their support.... or so it can be portrayed I fear.
The Russians on Twitter seem to still be able to get everything somehow and my friends in Ukraine are still able to ring from bunkers, they’re quite amazing! Just praying next year it will be over and everything, including Wimbledon, is back to normal :peace:
The US Open is allowing the Russians and Belarussians to play. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/61804940
I can see both sides.I mean what if a Russian player won Wimbledon … pictures of that would be all over the world. It wouldn’t be a good look. But I really, really feel for the players. This war has sod all to do with them. Like anyone else, they are just trying to do their job. As for the ranking points … I can’t really see the point. It penalises everyone and is unlikely to stop many from playing as Andy says.
From a selfish point of view I am gutted one of my fave players, Medvedev, won’t be there :sad:
I don't agree with not giving points but because that looks like siding with Russia and Belarus as well as being unfair to those who do play.
However I do feel that this war has to do with every single Russian/Belarussian and indeed all of us. The players support the war by silence. And if they're too afraid to express an opinion then that says it all....IMHO. The world needs to take a stand. Politics and sport are unfortunately not totally separable. Remember the Munich Olympics massacre.
I don't agree with not giving points but because that looks like siding with Russia and Belarus as well as being unfair to those who do play.
However I do feel that this war has to do with every single Russian/Belarussian and indeed all of us. The players support the war by silence. And if they're too afraid to express an opinion then that says it all....IMHO. The world needs to take a stand. Politics and sport are unfortunately not totally separable. Remember the Munich Olympics massacre.
I don't agree with removing points either. It is heavily penalising some players especially those who are best on playing grass. They are also making it more likely for a Russian to be world no 1 for longer. I remember Tim Henman saying somewhere that some Russians may have threats to family members in Russia if they speak out - I think that was the argument against allowing Russians to play Wimbledon if they expressed negative opinions of the war.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/61852544
Osaka withdraws citing injury, after previously having said there was no point in playing for no points, and Bouchard withdraws, not unreasonably saying that there's no point in using a PR to enter an event that offers no points.
RosieBear
18-06-2022, 17:24
I wholeheartedly agree with the ban of (Bela-)Russian players and completely disagree with the point stripping.
Russia (& China) crave sporting prowess to promote their superpower image. Sport has always been inseparable from nationalist propaganda in medals before morals Russia, hence the level of their brazen cheating over the years in all sports. If the Wimbledon ban loses Putin one supporter it is worth it given the savagery in Ukraine. However tenuous Wimbledon's efforts may seem, absolutely any and every cultural sanction must be implemented to try and stop the Russian savages in Ukraine.
But whatever one thinks of SW19's ban of (Bela-)Russian players it's moronic of the ATP to strip Wimbledon points. All Rublev and co have achieved is to bring players of other nationalities down with them.
That said, players complaining about points removal is truly obnoxious. Osaka and Bouchard out of Wimbledon. Can't say I'm surprised - pair of diva-ish brats. The point situation is really showing people's true colours. Berrettini bleating that he might drop out of the top 20. Oh boo hoo. Get some perspective. Players are still getting prize money, meanwhile in Ukraine innocent people are being slaughtered and tortured. Kids violated to death. Any player moaning should hang their heads in shame.
God bless Andy - always ready to step up and do/say the right thing. If he wins Wimbledon this year it would be not only the greatest achievement in his career it would go down in not just tennis history , but sporting history - yet he would have no points or a penny in prize money to show for it as he is giving all earnings away. No moaning from him though - he's giving his all to be ready including increasing his schedule so he can give "pointless" Wimbledon his best shot, because he knows what matters. So proud to be an Andy fan.
Credit to Iga too - another one who has done the right thing all along the way.
If anybody, fan or player is unhappy with any aspect of the situation they should blame one person only - that devil in the Kremlin.
Sorry for mega-long post - I've deliberately kept quiet on this issue but can't any longer, the floodgates opened and it's come pouring out in one go.
I don't agree with not giving points but because that looks like siding with Russia and Belarus as well as being unfair to those who do play.
However I do feel that this war has to do with every single Russian/Belarussian and indeed all of us. The players support the war by silence. And if they're too afraid to express an opinion then that says it all....IMHO. The world needs to take a stand. Politics and sport are unfortunately not totally separable. Remember the Munich Olympics massacre.
Can’t disagree that the world needs to stand up to Russia but I think it’s unfair to say players support the war by silence. If they and other Russians are afraid to speak out, that doesn’t mean they support it, it means Putin and his regime is every kind of vile, intimidating to its people etc etc. Russian citizens can’t help being Russian. I’m not really politically minded so my opinion is likely very simplistic … but shoot me down, I still feel for the Russian players. The whole ghastly business is just horrific ….
Can’t disagree that the world needs to stand up to Russia but I think it’s unfair to say players support the war by silence. If they and other Russians are afraid to speak out, that doesn’t mean they support it, it means Putin and his regime is every kind of vile, intimidating to its people etc etc. Russian citizens can’t help being Russian. I’m not really politically minded so my opinion is likely very simplistic … but shoot me down, I still feel for the Russian players. The whole ghastly business is just horrific ….
I absolutely don't blame anyone who's afraid to stand up to Putin, especially if it's to protect others but having made possibly Hobson's choice, they should accept the much less dangerous consequences with a good grace. As RB says the blame for all of this lies with the Kremlin and no one should be doing anything that gives any opportunity for Russia to crow..... especially not the ATP by removing points.
I genuinely don't think any of us can feel safe.... where does Putin's madness end?
BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/61712490) - Wimbledon: The winners and losers of a Championships stripped of ranking points
Express (https://www.express.co.uk/sport/tennis/1631206/Wimbledon-2022-full-list-banned-players-Russia-Belarus-SNT) - Wimbledon 2022: Full list of every player banned from tournament amid Russia controversy
BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/62040296) - LTA and All England Club fined for banning Russian and Belarusian players
The All England Lawn Tennis Club (AELTC) has been fined £207,000 and the Lawn Tennis Association (LTA) £620,000 after stopping athletes compete at Wimbledon and in warm-up tournaments.
I'm kind of surprised that the WTA have the power to do so.
I think it's disgusting. Again, implies support for Putin or so he would interpret it.
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