The Blue Clay debate .......

[Sallydaisy]

So, is it any good - or is it as bad as the players seem to be saying in Madrid this week?

I've picked up a few snippets from twitter but I wonder if other players have views on this?

Jonathan Overend ‏ @5livetennis (https://twitter.com/#%21/5livetennis) My hunch was wrong. Djokovic follows Nadal lead and won't return to Madrid event unless return to traditional clay.

Barry Flatman ‏ @Barry_FlatmanST (https://twitter.com/#%21/Barry_FlatmanST)
Ion Tiriac hasn't made many mistakes in tennis business but alienating @DjokerNole (https://twitter.com/#%21/DjokerNole) & @RafaelNadal (https://twitter.com/#%21/RafaelNadal) is pretty damning


Carole Bouchard ‏ @carole_bouchard (https://twitter.com/#%21/carole_bouchard)
Djokovic menace, comme Nadal, de boycotter Madrid 2013 si la surface ne change pas / Djokovic saying he'd skip MAdrid next year if no change


And an interesting tweet from Neil Harman earlier today ...

In Madrid tomorrow, the last 4 ATP CEOs, Miles, De Villiers, Helfant and Drewett (current incumbent) are guests of the tourney. Wonder what they'll talk about?

NB: Despite the injuries sustained on the poor Centre Court in Monte Carlo this week no players have declared that they might boycott it in 2013.
(Benneteau, Monaco, a tumble for Nole...)

[RoastLamb]

I like how it looks on tv. You can see the ball very clearly. But otherwise I'd prefer the regular clay for the players' sakes.

[JAMES4578]

Whilst the blue clay is fine visually, the court really does seem slippery and in general the players are not moving so freely and a few have taken some awkward turns. I wonder if it is really viable,though there have been reports that the concerns will be addressed.

[Sallydaisy]

The argument continues on twitter at least ......

Some of these are retweets/tweets from Carole Bouchard, a journalist with L'Equipe.

Toni Nadal: "Tiriac said to Nadal that he was sorry" is at minute 11:05
http://www.ivoox.com/toni-nadal-si-me-hubiera-hecho-caso-yo-audios-mp3_rf_1218236_1.html (http://t.co/jf5voYlB)

Toni Nadal said that Murray didn't go to Madrid because of the surface http://www.ivoox.com/toni-nadal-si-me-hubiera-hecho-caso-yo-audios-mp3_rf_1218236_1.html (http://t.co/jf5voYlB) (min 6:00)


Gaston Cloup, who was consultant for Madrid new courts (and dealt with French Open one) said in L'Equipe he told staff sthing was wrong at the start of the week. he says "they didn't follow my advices. It's incredible".

Cloup says the first millimeters (?) of clay do not grip the ground enough. that's the clay itself flies too much.
@Stu_Fraser

Worth pointing out that if Nadal was to skip Madrid next year, he would not be penalised as he has played more than 600 matches on tour.

Same scenario for Djokovic. That is providing they do not skip any other mandatory Masters events next year.

Federer can pick & choose what Masters events he plays next year. Could potentially have a Madrid without Federer, Nadal and Djokovic.

Jonathan Overend ‏ @5livetennis (https://twitter.com/#%21/5livetennis)
Lots of interesting responses on the clay issue. Loads of players have complained, not just Rafa and Novak. Tournament admit work to do.
[/URL]
So if Dolgopolov floats and slices to the title, adapting brilliantly to the change in conditions, will anyone listen to what he thinks?

And finally ...............
;)

[URL="https://twitter.com/#%21/tennistweetscom"] tennistweets.com ‏ @tennistweetscom (https://twitter.com/#%21/5livetennis)


tiriac should make serena play delpo now #realinnovation (https://twitter.com/#%21/search/%23realinnovation)

Retweeted by Mark Petchey (https://twitter.com/#%21/markpetchey)

[Sallydaisy]

Richard Ingham Evans ‏ @Ringham7 (https://twitter.com/#%21/Ringham7)

Ion Tiriac stepping down from role in Madrid next year. Nothing to do with blue courts.
Carole Bouchard ‏ @carole_bouchard (https://twitter.com/#%21/carole_bouchard)
Ion Tiriac has it seems stepped down from his role in Madrid. What's happening now cause he was the owner ?


Richard Ingham Evans ‏ @Ringham7 (https://twitter.com/#%21/Ringham7) @MariyaKTennis (https://twitter.com/#%21/MariyaKTennis) @TruBlu (https://twitter.com/#%21/TruBlu)
Tiriac was chairman and co-owner with City of Madrid. Probably keeping some financial interest but no admin role

:lol:

Lisa-Marie Burrows ‏ @TennisNewsViews (https://twitter.com/#%21/TennisNewsViews)
Del Potro in presser said that how Nadal is feeling at the moment is more or less how all of the players are feeling with the conditions.


Djokovic is right behind him as well. ;)
He also backed up Rafa and said yesterday that he and Rafa were both against it from the start.

[cazza99]

BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/tennis/18000107)- Novak Djokovic irritated by Madrid Open blue clay

Tennis Space (http://www.thetennisspace.com/on-court/blue-clay-miscellany/) - Blue Clay Miscellany

Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/tennis/9250311/Players-unhappy-with-Smurf-blue-clay-courts-at-Madrid-Masters.html) - Players unhappy with 'Smurf' blue clay courts at Madrid Masters

BBC - (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/tennis/18023055) Rafael Nadal and Novak Djokovic threaten Madrid Open snub

Eurosport (http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/11052012/2/tennis-toni-nadal-sees-red-madrid-blue-clay.html) - Tennis-Toni Nadal sees red over Madrid's blue clay

[cazza99]

Matt Cronin ‏ @TennisReporters


Tipsarevic d Djokovic 76 63. Nadal also lost to Verdasco. So does rest of ATP now vote to play whole season on blue clay?

:rolling:

[Sallydaisy]

Overend:

Djokovic out and can't wait to get out of this place. Like Nadal, he talked himself into believing he couldn't win on this surface

Wow. Djokovic comes off his long run in press conference. Lays into former ATP Chief Adam Helfant for signing off the blue clay deal

Love a bit of controversy. Sport can be too cosy, especially at the top. Djokovic is really worked up about this.

For all of you asking, we'll be playing a bit of Djokovic on 5 Live in the next hour or so.

Listening back to outspoken Djok on Helfant. Former ATP Chief won't be calling the lawyers, but only just...

Rob Koenig ‏ @RobKoenigTennis (https://twitter.com/#%21/RobKoenigTennis)
Djokovic: "I want to forget about this week and move onto the real clay" & "They can do whatever they want, I won't be back if clay is blue"

[cazza99]

Pat Cash ‏ @TheRealPatCash


Credit to Madrid @ATPWorldTour 4 trying blue crt. Tennis needs some thing new Look outside top few, ATP not as healthy as it may seem! Zzzzz

[RoastLamb]

Is that a dig at the top four players???

I was thinking it's pretty courageous of the Madrid organisers to try something new. The thing with Rafa is he loves and needs his routines and hates things being different plus he likes the natural stuff which is why I think he excels on both clay and grass. So I can see why he's disgruntled the most. And his friend, Carlos Moya, is assistant supervisor too! But most of the commies seem to think it's just a gimmick so it'll be interesting to see if the blue clay remains next year. My guess is they'll change the texture not the colour.

[Linda]

This was a rubbish tournament because the best players could not use their best asset, namely their fantastic movement around the court. They said it would make it better for TV viewers to watch because the ball would be more visible (although I've never had any problem seeing it on normal clay) but it's not better to watch if the players are tentatively stepping around the court like arthritic pensioners.

[Sallydaisy]

There's been a few sensible comments out of this:-

- why wasn't it tried at lower ranked tournament first (e.g. the Tiriac-Nastase 250 in Roumania?)
- it seems it isn't the blue colour that is affecting the court but the mix of 'dirt' that has been used
- how come the players are kicking up about this so much but not MC where 3 of them were injured
- how come a number of the players don't seem to be having a problem with it at all ...
- how come the current and previous 3 ATP presidents were in Madrid today? (per Harman)

[Linda]

It seems astonishing that the ATP allowed this to go ahead at a tournament at this level, and one can only conclude that there may have been some kind of underhand dealings here (if only a case of the 'old pals act').

The problem is that the first layer of clay was not bonded to the cement so the whole lot is shifting about. Apparently they were advised of this well before the tournament but chose to ignore the advice.

At MC several players did complain about one small part of the court where there was a slightly raised surface.

I think all the players are having a problem to a certain extent. Those that rely on their movement about the court will suffer the most. Those who rely on their serve and don't normally have good movement about the court will not be affected as much.

[pabbers]

I must be thick - I thought the whole point about clay was a player's ability to slide..........so what's the problem with a slippery court?

As for Dolly I've always thought he looked more like he was a ballet dancer than a tennis player - so graceful, so he probably can hover over the court or do the odd arabesque here and there :lol:

[Linda]

No, if it's too slippery it's like wet grass - really dangerous. I watched some of Dolly/Potty today and at one point, Potty had to run forward for to reach a Dolly dropshot - he got there but had trouble stopping. He then had to run back to the baseline for the next shot, he only just got there and attempted a tweener (which didn't come off) but he couldn't stop and crashed into the backboard - he was rubbing his shoulder afterwards. On proper clay you can stop when you want to, but on this surface you can't. It's really dangerous. It's like when you're skiing and you hit a really icy patch and suddenly you are going too fast and can't slow down and the only way you can stop is to throw yourself to the ground.

Dolly was actually coping with it amazingly well when Potty had him running from side to side! Pity he couldn't win :sad:

[pabbers]

Ah I see - makes sense now thanks, Linda.

[RoastLamb]

Sally, the ATP presidents were there today because there was some kind of on court presentation for them. Tennistv commies mentioned it.

Why didn't the players boycott the entire tournament then?

[cazza99]

Peter Flemming from Sky appeared to be sure they would not go with the blue clay next year.

[cazza99]

I must be thick - I thought the whole point about clay was a player's ability to slide..........so what's the problem with a slippery court?


Some players were saying they could not stop sliding when they wanted.

[cazza99]

Tennis talk (http://www.tennistalk.com/en/news/20120512/Suspicious_Djokovic_imagines_ATP_blue_clay_plot) - Suspicious Djokovic imagines ATP blue clay plot

[Sallydaisy]

@5livetennis

Wow. Tiriac and Santana getting jeered and whistled as they are introduced for presentation ceremony
.An extraordinary 30 minute defence of blue clay by Ion Tiriac. Accepts the surface was too slippy but insistent blue is the way forward.
ATP allowed Madrid to change colour on proviso it would be perfect clay. Hard to see how they will allow it next year, whatever Tiriac says
Even if they convince ATP, how do they convince players who are hung up on "Blue" when the colour is not the real issue?
@luciahoff (https://twitter.com/#!/luciahoff) it matters what the ATP think! What they decide, Madrid will do. so can Tiriac convince Drewett? Then can Drewett convince N & D?

Carole Bouchard ‏ @carole_bouchard (https://twitter.com/#!/carole_bouchard)
Not gonna lie : quite proud of Madrid's crowd right now...They didn't pay tickets for this mess of blue week nor for Nadal treated like this

Et le trophée ressemble toujours Ã* un... voila! voila! (http://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/large/578848716.jpg?key=643800&Expires=1336921129&Key-Pair-Id=APKAIYVGSUJFNRFZBBTA&Signature=xTi9A7~7WPYtU8~af45tsS8l~XoBhVwmxBqHCOCK 8~aXu0lK7rALaAbS0A8QwGwy1uTY7KBkvIWuIk1pCPV3m8wt2z thwgXmZuHMW~JIPSlJIdZJxI7LOQ4i~COY~ZiL47JU81-t3gaZQH9bXIwHxp8ceHB4~dtoueGpMVMIV~g_).

Tiriac qui propose maintenant de tester sa TB bleue sur un Challenger avant Madrid 2013... C'est ce qu'il fallait faire avant Madrid 2012!

[Linda]

That last quote - exactly. Why on earth carry out an experiment at a Masters?

Oh, and props to the Madrid crowd for expressing their opinion.

[cazza99]

ESPN (http://espn.go.com/tennis/blog/_/name/bodo_peter/id/7943963/tennis-ball-was-just-easier-see-blue-clay-madrid-open) - Help! I can't see the ball on red clay


But just Wednesday, former French Open champ and Madrid assistant tournament director Carlos Moya also declared that the main problem with the "slippery" courts was the ill-advised addition of salt to clay, which created a kind of super-hard shell on the individual granules. Moya insisted that those who played on the courts before they were treated with salt (a common practice to control the effects of humidity) all judged the court just fine.

[cazza99]

Eurosport (http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/simon-reed/blue-clay-cannot-return-173133172.html)- Blue clay cannot return
by Simon Reed

[Sallydaisy]

Game over for Blue Clay ........
:p

ATP Decides Against Blue Clay in 2013

At a meeting of the ATP Board of Directors in London, ATP Executive Chairman & President Brad Drewett announced that blue clay courts will not be permitted at ATP World Tour events in 2013.

Read more here. (http://www.atpworldtour.com/News/Tennis/2012/06/Features/ATP-Rules-Out-Blue-Clay-For-2013.aspx)

[Linda]

That's good news!

[Sallydaisy]

It means that Federer and Serena will end their careers unbeaten on blue clay ..........
:getcoat:

[pabbers]

It means that Federer and Serena will end their careers unbeaten on blue clay ..........
:getcoat:

:laugh::laugh::laugh: I needed a larf :flowers:

[karanga]

Glad to hear that. :lol:

[supergran]

:mexican:

[JAMES4578]

Game over for Blue Clay ........
:p

ATP Decides Against Blue Clay in 2013


Read more here. (http://www.atpworldtour.com/News/Tennis/2012/06/Features/ATP-Rules-Out-Blue-Clay-For-2013.aspx)


Think it's a sensible decision, trhough it doesn't mean ble clay coun't return at some point. However,obviously major issues to be addressed.

[jb08668]

I think the players are making way more of this than they have to. Tennis surfaces (http://www.plexipave.com/tennis/plexipave.html) are and always should be uniquely different, and I see no reason why this tournament can't follow that idea. They'll be used to it next year and I guarantee no one will be complaining about their score.