Davis Cup - NEW FORMAT discussion

[banskogirl]

Sick, sad and :furious: it makes so little sense to anyone who values Davis Cup. Apart from the $ off course!

[patlowe]

Andy has always said you should try new things, and if they don't work you can go back again. If this new 'thing' doesn't work, what are the chances of going back to the beloved DC as we know it, (with a few modifications which it needed anyway)?

[RosieBear]

Andy has always said you should try new things, and if they don't work you can go back again. If this new 'thing' doesn't work, what are the chances of going back to the beloved DC as we know it, (with a few modifications which it needed anyway)?

Precisely zero. It probably will work - for the players, investors, sponsors, federations, TV networks, etc so there will be no turning back. It's just the fans who have been royally scr***d, and at the end of the day that counts for nothing.

[JAMES4578]

certainly don't think there's much chance of changing back, wheels set in motion and what will matter to ITF is if it works financially.

[patlowe]

Just clutching at straws!

[Linda]

It seems that next year, and any year where we haven't reached the SF in the previous year, we'd have to play a qualifying tie in February with the only change being that each match consists of 3 tie break sets, and it's all done over two days. And of course if we dropped out of the world group it would be back to the old format.

[themass15]

A very sad day for all DC fans. The only silver lining is the qualifying tie in February.

[exislander]

A sad, sad day! RIP Davis Cup - I hope someone comes up with a new name for this new competition because it will never be Davis Cup to me. Anyone feel like a rendition of Auld Lang Syne after the last match in Glasgow next month? Win or lose I think it will really feel like the end of something good.
I may have mentioned earlier that the lower tier with home and away ties may be more attractive initially but I fear that will be brought in line before long.

[Steven]

Very, very sad :-(

At least we can say we did our bit (if we can assume we had at least some influence on the LTA) - I wonder how the Belgian, Dutch & French players and fans, among others, must feel about their federations selling out.

[lovetennis]

A very sad day for all DC fans. The only silver lining is the qualifying tie in February.

Not a silver lining for me. At this stage I really feel that next month is the end of DC for me. I feel like going to the Feb tie will be a waste of my time if I can't attend the latter stage. I also have no interest in supporting the new format financially - the changes are all founded around money. I'm not giving the ITF any more of mine. That's how I feel now and who knows I may change my mind come next year but I doubt it. Rip Davis Cup, died 16 August 2018. Killed by the ITF for a fine sum of money

[Rosalind]

It is horrible but I feel that I have enjoyed many weekends and I am thankful for that. At least I have had those experiences particularly the fabulous 2015.

I can't see it working well - you either like tennis or you are not bothered. If you are not bothered, you're not going to be forking out for the new format or even be aware that it's going on. It's not football World Cup or the Olympics. They are global competitions and whilst tennis is played around the world, it is not anything like the same level. I'm not actually sure what they are thinking of.
:smashed:

[patlowe]

There we go....an answer to an earlier query of mine re DC tie next month.....

1393

[WimbledonWestie]

Absolutely gutted. Th is is not how Davis Cup should be played. Other than February ties I have zero chance of attending this event as I can't get away from school- and am I right in thinking the 2 days are Friday Saturday- so only I February day I could do- and that's only home this. So sad.

[clancy]

The more I think about it, the sadder I become. Are they intending to use that existing magnificent trophy??

[Stell]

I heard the bad news, while I was out. I know the football world cup will be changing to allow more countries qualify for it, but the DC certainly didn't needed to be changed.

[jackie55]

This is a sad day. Much worse than when Andy loses a match.

:crying::crying::crying:

[jackie55]

Feeling so sad and disappointed, while did outsider have to interfere why not stick to his own game of football!!! agree that some things needed changing with the Davis Cup, but this is definitely going to far and can't and will not be called Davis Cup by me.

R.I.P:trophy:

[lovetennis]

The more I think about it, the sadder I become. Are they intending to use that existing magnificent trophy??

I expect so - they are keeping the Davis Cup name. Within minutes of the vote result they were tweeting links to information on their webpages about how the new format will work (obviously they were well prepared for getting the "yes" result). The branding on the webpages etc still says Davis Cup so I guess they'll take the view that the trophy will remain.

[exislander]

I can't call it anything other than the Davis Cup Replacement.

[lovetennis]

Couldn't help myself
https://twitter.com/Tweetypie2113/status/1030171324507930624

[lovetennis]

I can't call it anything other than the Davis Cup Replacement.

I'm starting to call it "the exhbition event"...because that's pretty much all it will be

[cazza99]

BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/45210996) - Davis Cup reform: Nations vote for 18-team season-ending event

[clancy]

I expect so - they are keeping the Davis Cup name. Within minutes of the vote result they were tweeting links to information on their webpages about how the new format will work (obviously they were well prepared for getting the "yes" result). The branding on the webpages etc still says Davis Cup so I guess they'll take the view that the trophy will remain.

What a travesty it is! I won't be calling it the Davis Cup because it isn't any longer and I feel like stealing that magnificent trophy (wouldn't fit in my loft though!) to save it from such an ignoble future.

[RosieBear]

Should be called The Shameless Cup.

[patlowe]

Or the Shameful Cup.....

[Sallydaisy]

The Devious Cup
The Dubious Cup
The Dollar Cup ...
The EX-DC Cup
The Dishonest Cup
:big grin:

I could go on ...

BTW does anyone want a shed load of free ex-DC t-shirts that were dished out by the LTA at various ex-DC events to the fans who paid the money to keep the ex-DC going?

[Sallydaisy]

The Dwightless Cup ...
The Davis ConCup
The ITs For Dollars Cup

[goldfish]

Sad day - have to make Glasgow a very special tie for us fans. Will enjoy sharing it with this forum.

[angiebabez]

This question may come across as naïve. but if we win in Glasgow next month, will it count for anything? I understand that France, Spain, Croatia and USA (the last 4 of this year's cup) have all already secured their place in the final next year. Does that mean we have to qualify in February to progress to final? Apparently Lille or Madrid could be venue for final next year.

No it won't count for anything. It's meaningless now :( we have been sold tickets to something that isn't what we thought it was gonna be

[roytennisfan]

RIP Davis Cup 1900-2018 Aged 118
Killed by greed and by idiots

[roytennisfan]

Maybe the fangroups could come together arrange a funeral procession in Glasgow

[Linda]

Definitely - with a coffin and everything!

[Alis]

:crying::crying::crying:

[suttontennis]

Ok. So in reality, how do these changes initially affect the fans of Team GB ? When the competition commences next year, GB will be playing in the home and away format to qualify for the season ending event, so there is still the chance of a home tie, albeit on a much shorter format. Qualifying means a week long event in Madrid or Lille, instead of a Quarter Final, Semi Final and Final played over different dates like we do now. I'd have thought that from a travel and Hotel point it's easier to book one destination than 3 separate ones. The venue in Lille is massive so ticket availability shouldn't be a problem. Travel to both Lille and Madrid are easy enough. If we fail to qualify than we go back to Group 1, and stick with the usual format. I personally think that our team (without AM/JM) would tend to shuffle between Group 1 and the main group, depending on surface played, and if we get home or away. We don't have the strength in depth to expect to always be in the Main group. I agree with the ITF that the Davis Cup needs a shake up, and remember when the Federation Cup (as it was then) was played over a 2 week period at Nottingham, how much interest it generated, it was very well supported and all the major players attended. I think that at least, a change of format has to be worth a try.

[Josephine]

Sad to see davis cup change and the end result all being about money - but perfectly sensible points made above. Andy's viewpoint below - pointing out all the issues for players. Though this need not have been the solution as would have been better if players and fans had been consulted.

“I don’t think having like two team competitions six weeks apart, I don’t see that as being a positive thing. But the ATP and the ITF are not working together on it, so it’s obviously most likely both are going to end up having, because if the ITF waited to take a little bit more time over things and the ATP go ahead with their event the beginning of the year in Australia and that’s a big success, then that’s very negative for the ITF.
“So one thing I think is for sure is that Davis Cup needed to change, because pretty much all of the players that I have spoken to love playing Davis Cup,but then lots of players don’t commit to playing it. So that would suggest there is something not right, whether that’s a scheduling thing, the fact it comes after slams, you know, changing surfaces, like is straight after a slam. And normally the Grand Slams come at the end of quite an intense stretch.

“Like here you’ve got Washington, Cincinnati, Canada, US Open, you should really be taking a break after that, but then switching surfaces potentially and playing a few best-of-five-set matches on a new surface is not really great for the body.
“I do think something needed to change, but there is obviously quite a significant change. But I have said this many times, I’m also not against it. I don’t see why you can’t make a change, and if it doesn’t work and the players don’t like it and the fans don’t like it, you can always go back. It doesn’t have to be permanent.

“But something needed to change. I think if it was every couple years maybe would have been a good start potentially. But who knows what’s going to happen.”

[patlowe]

Stu Fraser has made the point that there will be no more home ties on grass as home ties can only be held in February.

[patlowe]

Quote from Andy in Josephine's post above:..... "I don’t see why you can’t make a change, and if it doesn’t work and the players don’t like it and the fans don’t like it, you can always go back. It doesn’t have to be permanent."

It doesn't have to be permanent? :hmm:

[patlowe]

I think everyone is in agreement that the DC needed an overhaul....but this drastic!!!! I don't think so.

[lovetennis]

Quote from Andy in Josephine's post above:..... "I don’t see why you can’t make a change, and if it doesn’t work and the players don’t like it and the fans don’t like it, you can always go back. It doesn’t have to be permanent."

It doesn't have to be permanent? :hmm:

Well I suppose nothing in life is permanent but think I read somewhere that the Kosmos contract is for 25 years. The ITF also voted yesterday to allow the Board to make future changes without having to have a vote by the national bodies. So in future the ITF Board have carte blanched to do whatever they want to the ex-DC. Can't see them reverting back to the old format -that would be admitting they made a mistake

[Teresa]

Was busy yesterday, so only caught up about midnight. It stinks.

I can’t see any way the top players will play, so it will become a minor tournament with an over the top trophy.

In a few years, nobody will have a clue what D.C. was.

I suspect, that some brown envelopes have been involved at several points along the way. That or Sepp Blatter has been acting as a consultant.

Thank goodness we had Ghent.

R.I.P. D.C.

[RosieBear]

Andy has been very enthusiastic about the changes from the outset: World number one Murray said: "If it comes off, I think it would be a very, very good thing for tennis." (12th May 2017)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/39897418

I had hoped that after greater reflection and feedback from the fans he would have revised his position - maybe realised that his comments were entirely player-centric, and whilst understandably his dominant persepective, when it comes to DC the fans are very important too - probably equally so. Sadly however Andy, nor anyone else, has set out why the changes are good for the fans, ...hmm, I wonder why.

He's been quiet on the subject recently, perhaps becoming aware of the strength of fans' feelings, which we know are overwhelmingly negative. Sorry, but the 'let's try things, it doesn't have to be permanent' comment is either naive or appeasement.

I love Andy to bits and he's as entitled to his view as any other individual, but it's very unhealthy to view anyone as so perfect and infallible that they are beyond reproach and to my mind Andy has got it very wrong this time.

[Caro]

I agree RB ... I'm really disappointed that Andy is for the changes, REALLY disappointed!

Personally I am absolutely gutted and I really don't know what else to say. I can't take it in at the moment ....:crying::crying::crying:

[Hawkeye]

Much as I hate to say it, but if we win in a few weeks, an orchestrated February boycott is in order.

[RosieBear]

I agree RB ... I'm really disappointed that Andy is for the changes, REALLY disappointed!

Personally I am absolutely gutted and I really don't know what else to say. I can't take it in at the moment ....:crying::crying::crying:

Ditto. It's really compounded my sadness :sad: Doesn't mean we don't love him - on the contrary, you tell the truth however difficult to those you love - but I am really disappointed :sad:

[Josephine]

Andy hasn't approved these particular plans. He said before they were approved that changes were needed and all the points he made are valid.

I don't think it was possible for the old format to continue. I don't much care for this new one - though there are still possibilities of home ties. But I think changes were needed so I agree with Andy on that.

[RosieBear]

Andy hasn't approved these particular plans. He said before they were approved that changes were needed and all the points he made are valid.

I don't think it was possible for the old format to continue. I don't much care for this new one - though there are still possibilities of home ties. But I think changes were needed so I agree with Andy on that.


Were any of the points he made about fan needs/benefits valid? Oh wait, he didn't make any. Not when he expressed support last year and not now. That's a major downer for me. If he'd said it's good for players because a,b, c AND good for fans because x, y, z then I may very well disagree with his claims but at least he would have shown that caring for fans factored into his reasoning.
I very robustly uphold Andy's right to owe absolutely nothing to fans who support him as an individual, but this is different. DC fans were due consideration, and sorry but I haven't seen/heard any from Andy (or any of the other players who are on board). I'd truly welcome evidence to the contrary, it would make me feel better.

edit- p.s. I didn't mean the opening sentence to sound sarcastic to you, Josephine :flowers::hug: I'm just so fed up and demoralised. Like Caro said, it's hard to get one's head around the end of era. About much more than just the event for me, I've shared so much with my Nana, mum, aunty - feels like it was in my blood :crying::crying::crying:

[suttontennis]

In English football, the focus for the top clubs is the League title. The FA Cup and Carabao Cup are a chance for them to rest their top players, and give the squad players a chance. I can foresee the top Nations playing the main event without their top players. It could come down to appearance money, pay em enough and they'll all turn up, after all it's one x 3 set match for 3 days, a day off, QF, SF and Final. Not that difficult.

[lovetennis]

Much as I hate to say it, but if we win in a few weeks, an orchestrated February boycott is in order.

I have already decided I won't go to the Feb tie. No heart for it. Will be sorry to lose the element of meeting forum friends but won't be sorry to miss the fake DC

[lovetennis]

A very clever re-working of WH Auden's poem which captures exactly how I feel. Well done to this fan for summing it up so eloquently

https://twitter.com/vickispreadbury/status/1030468442502193152

Edit: From memory I think the original was entitled Funeral Blues. You may remember John Hannah reciting it in Four Weddings & a Funeral

[RosieBear]

A very clever re-working of WH Auden's poem which captures exactly how I feel. Well done to this fan for summing it up so eloquently

https://twitter.com/vickispreadbury/status/1030468442502193152

Edit: From memory I think the original was entitled Funeral Blues. You may remember John Hannah reciting it in Four Weddings & a Funeral

Painfully brilliant :sad: Thanks for the link lt, - do people need to be on twitter to read it? Just in case, have paste below:

Tennis Blues

by Vicki Spreadbury

Stop all the shot clocks, cut off the umpire's mic,
Take down the nets, let the ball boys go on strike,
Silence all those courtside and, with muffled drum,
Bring out the trophy. Let the players come.

Let the pigeons circle moaning overhead,
As the team captain's murmur: 'The Davis Cup is dead!'
Put a crepe bow around the neck of Rufus the Hawk,
Let the hopes of a nation vanish like a puff of chalk.

There were home and away ties, north, south, east and west,
Now one place, for one week. The fans? Dispossessed.
No longer will stadia ring to their song.
We thought the Davis Cup would last forever, we were wrong.

The floodlights are not wanted now, put out everyone,
Pack up the scoreboards, the money has won.
Fold up your flags, let your banners fall slack.
The Davis Cup has gone, and it's not coming back.

[Sallydaisy]

Julien Benneteau has tweeted a warning to the golfing community!
(translated from the French ... )

Dear Friends Professional Golfers If you see on one of your tournaments
Gérard Pique take care that your Ryder Cup is not played on 1 day in 6 holes....
https://twitter.com/julienbenneteau

[Sallydaisy]

A very clever re-working of WH Auden's poem which captures exactly how I feel. Well done to this fan for summing it up so eloquently

https://twitter.com/vickispreadbury/status/1030468442502193152

Edit: From memory I think the original was entitled Funeral Blues. You may remember John Hannah reciting it in Four Weddings & a Funeral

Brilliant.
:thumbup:

[Jan62]

I'm beyond sad. I'll be honest, I only started going when a couple of ties were held at Braehead and it was a chance to see Andy on home soil. That was my pre AMFF days. Then in 2015 I came to my first tie with the forum and have never looked back. My principal reason for attending has always been the chance to see Andy. But the friendships made and the fun we have at the DC weekends have become just as important and the last few ties, Andy hasn't played and I've still gone.

The DC is an important part of the history of tennis. It has of course changed format over the years. Nothing is permanent, change always happens in life. Most people, players, federations and fans seemed to agree that some more changes were needed for a variety of reasons. But this wholescale destruction of the current world group format seems ill conceived from a fan point of view.

Money sadly always talks and I can only imagine what has been promised to the federations in exchange for voting this through. I'd love it to be a disaster, but that is wishful thinking. Money will be made, TV rights, advertising, sponsorship etc etc. And corporate guests will show up, attend bits of matches without a clue about what they're watching and there will be very little atmosphere. Except of course for the fake We Are Tennis "fans", paid to make it look as though everyone's having a good time.

What I find most disappointing today is that none of our current team or our captain have come out and said what they think. Andy appeared to be in favour of the changes, and that has really upset me. Stupid I know. They always say how much they appreciate the backing of the fans, yet they must know the fans are pretty universally against these changes. So are they just saying "thanks for the support" but not really meaning it? As long as we are stupid enough to keep turning up, buying tickets and spending not inconsiderable sums to go to these weekends? I sincerely hope not.

My instinct is not to go to future ties, but we'll see. Next month might be our last chance to support the team as a big group. That is a sad thought. But I'm sure we can have the occasional get together without going to a tie! We had a great time in Newcastle last year.

Sorry for the long ramble, been away for work for a couple of days and been dying to get this off my chest 🤣🤣

[lovetennis]

Been thinking about the way the 1st round ties will work and come to the conclusion that it's weird and not surprisingly it's not very fan friendly.

Teams that get to the semis of the week long November event don't have to play the 1st round the following year so if your team is one that is consistently successful you may never even have a 1st round tie to go to- and then when your team doesn't do quite so well, there will be a decent chance the 1st round might be away, reducing your chance of attending. Only one tie a year gives you less of a crack at getting a home tie and not everyone can/will travel abroad.

It actually seems to increase your chance of going to a tie by hoping your team lose before the semi-final stage of the Nov event. Wanting your team to lose is not what sport is about is it? As I said it's weird.

Also another thought on the 1st round.
There's no guarantee this element will remain long-term. The original proposal earlier this year did not even include a home/away 1st round. They added it in after the initial backlash at the single venue idea. The uproar following yesterday's vote has drowned out another change they voted on later in the day. The ITF Board can now make further changes to DC without a vote from the national bodies - what's to stop them removing the home/away ties in the future? They didn't want them in the first place (harder to sell the TV rights, too messy to organise etc etc) because they're really only interested in flogging the TV rights of the week long event to the highest bidder. So what to do? - just don't promote the 1st round a great deal, and after a few years sigh and say "well we tried it but that home/away tie thing doesn't work nowadays". Et voila, the dictatorship (aka the ITF Board) vote to remove them and revert to the format they wanted all along - all revolving around that week-long format.

Conspiracy theory? Maybe, but if happens in 5 years time you saw it here first

[RosieBear]

Absolutely lt, - how the specifics play out is to be seen, but one thing is for certain - one should never, ever, ever underestimate the sneakiness of governing bodies/class.

[Steven]

Apologies in advance that this is so long but some good points have been raised, here and on Twitter, and I can't help myself ... ;-)


Andy has been very enthusiastic about the changes from the outset: World number one Murray said: "If it comes off, I think it would be a very, very good thing for tennis." (12th May 2017)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/39897418

I had hoped that after greater reflection and feedback from the fans he would have revised his position - maybe realised that his comments were entirely player-centric, and whilst understandably his dominant persepective, when it comes to DC the fans are very important too - probably equally so. Sadly however Andy, nor anyone else, has set out why the changes are good for the fans, ...hmm, I wonder why.

He's been quiet on the subject recently, perhaps becoming aware of the strength of fans' feelings, which we know are overwhelmingly negative. Sorry, but the 'let's try things, it doesn't have to be permanent' comment is either naive or appeasement.

I love Andy to bits and he's as entitled to his view as any other individual, but it's very unhealthy to view anyone as so perfect and infalliable that they are beyond reproach and to my mind Andy has got it very wrong this time.

That's very well put - and people often forget that you can be a huge fan of a player without thinking everything they say is correct (and also not like a player without thinking everything they say is wrong!) - indeed even Judy seems to be mourning the death of DC since the vote, so that surely allows even the most .. er .. worshipful Andy fans to disagree with him without being sent to the (Scottish equivalent of) the Tower! ;-)

Top players

It's almost always the case that players (especially top players) are completely selfish when it comes to commenting on changes directly affecting them, and that certainly doesn't only apply to tennis. I've always found Rafa to be the most breathtaking (not in a good way) exponent of that dark art - I've never known him to express an opinion on anything in tennis that isn't completely self-serving, and he always acts so innocent when he does it, as opposed to Fed, who at least makes it obvious. Andy is probably the best of the bunch (especially in his advocacy of the women's game) but he's not immune to it either.

Perhaps that shouldn't be surprising and not something we should blame them for - they must have to be exceptionally selfish in all kinds of ways to reach the levels they do and that's not a criticism of them as people (indeed, they all do lots of very good things as well) but that does suggest to me that 'the top players want it' (or indeed that the equally selfish slams want it) isn't sufficient argument. That's even more true now, when the powers that be need to be nurturing the younger players and giving them plenty of chances to shine in preparation for the days when the big four are no longer around.

Tennis media

Of course, the tennis media are complicit in this too. Every single DC weekend, most of them decided that the main story should be which of the big 4 wasn't / weren't playing. That might be reasonable if there were no other big DC stories to report but there were some fabulously exciting ties and positive stories they could have told about DC almost every time.

Christoph Clarey (New York Times) tweeted that the big 4 had a lot to answer for in terms of DC's perceived decline but in my view, the media's obsession with them to the exclusion of virtually everything else made them far bigger culprints than those players, who have actually played nearly 140 DC rubbers between them and have all won the title at least once.

Given that most of the UK journos also used to lead with the 'look who isn't playing' line, I was amazed by how vehemently some of them came out against the change - if only they'd shown that enthusiasm for DC years ago, before it was too late.

Naive?

Naive was the first word that came to my mind too when I read Andy's "if it doesn’t work and the players don’t like it and the fans don’t like it, you can always go back. It doesn’t have to be permanent.", since the ITF probably will be ruined if this doesn't work (which I think would be a really bad thing - they did lots of good unsung grass roots work that the ATP and WTA can't be bothered to do, but Haggerty seems determined to change the ITF into a poor man's ATP, which is beyond stupid because it takes away the main reason for the ITF to exist) and even if it isn't, going back to something more like the old format for DC would entail admitting they were wrong, and that's not going to happen unless Haggerty and his main cronies are ousted.

The US perspective

I have to say, I was worried as soon as an American got the top job at the ITF. The US haven't 'got' DC since the days when they used to win it all the time (it's not for nothing that the 4 most popular sports in the US are sports that hardly any other countries play at a high level) but there are other ways in which the US attitude to DC is understandable too. Ben Rothenberg, who lives in the capital of the US, tweeted that "On eve of #DavisCupVote, did the math and realized there hasn’t been a US* Davis Cup tie within 1000 km of my home in Washington DC in more than 10 years (despite there being 5 Canadian home ties within that radius). It’s been out-of-sight, out-of-mind for so many Americans for a decade. - compare that with the number of ties within 1000km of London and indeed all the other capitals of the UK in recent years and is it any wonder that home ties don't seem like such a big deal to the Americans? That doesn't mean they should be allowed to spoil it for the rest of us though!



Money sadly always talks and I can only imagine what has been promised to the federations in exchange for voting this through. I'd love it to be a disaster, but that is wishful thinking. Money will be made, TV rights, advertising, sponsorship etc etc. And corporate guests will show up, attend bits of matches without a clue about what they're watching and there will be very little atmosphere. Except of course for the fake We Are Tennis "fans", paid to make it look as though everyone's having a good time.


I agree that it's wishful thinking because it could easily be a big success as measured by the priorities of Haggerty, Piqué and Kosmos while still being a disaster for DC fans, and if it's not, the ATP's new team event and the Laver HAGFAREB* Cup (*hit-and-giggle-Fed-and-Rafa-ego-boost) will batter them and/or the ITF will end up ruined financially.

Yesterday's other vote

A perhaps even more sinister vote yesterday was the one that gave the ITF board of directors carte blanche to do whatever they like with DC and the Fed Cup in future without requiring another vote, so basically to kill Fed Cup too (oh how I wish they'd voted to change the terrible one-week neutral venue Fed Cup Zone Group I that we've been stuck in for so long into home and away instead of making the DC World Group more like Fed Cup Zone Group I!), even if it's clear by then that the DC changes aren't really working.



What I find most disappointing today is that none of our current team or our captain have come out and said what they think. Andy appeared to be in favour of the changes, and that has really upset me. Stupid I know. They always say how much they appreciate the backing of the fans, yet they must know the fans are pretty universally against these changes. So are they just saying "thanks for the support" but not really meaning it? As long as we are stupid enough to keep turning up, buying tickets and spending not inconsiderable sums to go to these weekends? I sincerely hope not.


Current team, etc

For Andy, see above. I agree that the rest haven't been as vocal as they probably should have been, especially before the vote (the Aussie and French players, former players and administrators have been putting them to shame, though I have a bone to pick with the Aussies about their new ATP Hopman Cup without the women event too) but there's been more subtle evidence that quite of few of the people you're probably thinking of were against the reform/destruction.

As well as Judy mourning the result of the vote, my tweets against the changes and/or retweets of other people's tweets against the changes have been liked by Leon, Cam, some of the younger players who haven't had a chance to play DC or Fed Cup yet, and that's only the notifications I've noticed. Jonny O'Mara has openly tweeted against the changes, as has Marcus Willis and probably some others I have forgotten.

I think Liam may have made it obvious that he was against the changes too (not sure about that though) but he, Evo (not on social media) and Wardy (doesn't tweet much) are playing Challengers so they don't get asked these questions in pressers. It's quite possible that some of them and, even more likely, Leon and maybe even Judy advocated in private for the LTA no vote, which would probably have been far more effective than tweeting about it. Would we rather have had them all shouting about it but the LTA voting yes, which is effectively what happened in France.

[lovetennis]

I emphasise what I'm now going to post is ONLY a rumour circulating among tennis journalists on Twitter, but it's potentially so serious and as paying members of British Tennis we have an interest

The rumour is that the LTA delegate at the ITF AGM may have cast the British votes in support of the proposal. The ballot is secret so there is no transparency (which allows rumours to develop OR delegates to vote in a way other than that decided by their national association). It could be rubbish or it could be true but when people like Mark Petchey & Neil Harman are asking questions about it, they must at least feel it needs looking into

Edit: Ben Rothenberg has contributed that the British votes were not decisive, whichever way they went. Just shows though that the whole process stinks and if the rumour was true it is truly shocking

[Caro]

I have seen that rumour on twitter too ... I truly hope it is not true, but you have to wonder where it came from and why if there is no truth in it ....

Meanwhile one of the Barmy Army has started a #ChangeItBack campaign on twitter, I know hell will freeze over before it changes back but I said I would show my support and use the hashtag in DC related tweets. If anyone fancies joining in, please do. I just thought well what have we got to lose? We’ve lost it all ...

[Josephine]

I do truly appreciate how upsetting this all is for the all the devoted DC attenders on here. I have been to a few when I could though not as a member of a group as that is not my preference. I do hate the footballer, the big money, the lack of say from fans and players and the loss of home and away in this current decision.

But I think I want to defend Andy. None of us know what it is like to be at the hard end of many tournaments time after time and then commit yourself to playing 3 best of 5 matches in a weekend as Andy did for most of 2015. Other times he has played DC and then been injured. He went to Serbia when he wasn't even playing to support the team. So he knows how much it can take out of a player and as far as I can see so far most of his comments have been - it needs to change - let's try a more 'one event' approach which has been talked about for some time. I'm sure he hasn't had any say in any of the particular rules they have come up with. Looking at it from the point of view of a top player wanting to play for his country but stay healthy and have as long a career as possible, what he has said is not in itself unreasonable.

Does seem wrong that the vote was in secret and that they have also awarded themselves the right to do whatever they want in the future.

But money talks - this is the world. It's why we'll be forced to pay more and watch US Open and then ATP matches on horrible streams.

[RosieBear]

I emphasise what I'm now going to post is ONLY a rumour circulating among tennis journalists on Twitter, but it's potentially so serious and as paying members of British Tennis we have an interest

The rumour is that the LTA delegate at the ITF AGM may have cast the British votes in support of the proposal. The ballot is secret so there is no transparency (which allows rumours to develop OR delegates to vote in a way other than that decided by their national association). It could be rubbish or it could be true but when people like Mark Petchey & Neil Harman are asking questions about it, they must at least feel it needs looking into

Edit: Ben Rothenberg has contributed that the British votes were not decisive, whichever way they went. Just shows though that the whole process stinks and if the rumour was true it is truly shocking


I have seen that rumour on twitter too ... I truly hope it is not true, but you have to wonder where it came from and why if there is no truth in it ....

Meanwhile one of the Barmy Army has started a #ChangeItBaxk campaign on twitter, I know he’ll will freeze over before it hanges back but I said I would show my support and use the hashtag in DC related tweets. If anyone fancies joining in, please do. I just though well what have we got to lose? We’ve lost it all ...

Oh I absolutely believe these rumours. Or more accurately, that they are extremely plausible. On the eve of the vote, before the statement, I post that I didn't believe that the LTA were *genuinely* considering going against the plans and were just stalling. When the LTA issued their 11th hr statement I refused to take it at face value because of the timing and how much there is going on behind the scenes (even more than I feared given the birth of the ITF dictatorship). Regular forummers know that I'm definitely not a cynical person who always thinks the worst, but after seeing how the powers that be operate at the ICC & UN you pick of a sense of these things and, believe me, the smell of LTA manoeuvring was very much in the air. It doesn't surprise me in the least that these rumours have emerged but as for ever finding out the truth, forget it I'm afraid :sad:

[RosieBear]

In addition to the above, I also stand by my claim that the LTA will appreciate the change because, as Andy's retirement looms, it covers up how they have failed to grow DC. Note in their statement that their 'vision of growing tennis and Davis Cup' was cited as the first reason for objecting. How strange, because in recent years the LTA's decisions have flown in the face of growing DC. E.g. Long before Glasgow, it was Eastbourne that used to be the spiritual home of DC ties in the UK. For context, since the modern era began in 1981 Eastbourne has hosted 8 ties to Glasgow's 9. When Tim and Greg arrived on the scene mid 1990s, the feeling was that with two top 5 players the time was right to grow the event/tennis by moving it around much more and trying to get bigger venues. Hence ties started being held in B'ham, Manchester, Coventry, Nott much more. It made it more difficult for us southerners, but we supported the decision because it was quite right that more people had a chance to attend. Then years later, the superstar Andy comes along. A once in a lifetime marquee player. What do the LTA do? They put ties in a small arena, in an extreme part of the country, in the same city. For context, GB's biggest ever tie (semi v Aus 2015) was played in the same size venue as our lowest level tie (against Turkey 2010). Each tie, I bored people rigid questioning the logic of why always Glasgow because it contradicted everything that went before. I never accepted the 'unique atmosphere' claims - Andy's a superstar player who can generate excitement and support in *any* arena, (kind of insulting to his status to suggest otherwise). I also didn't accept the venue availability claims. If the LTA were genuinely trying to grow the event there was nothing to stop them constructing temp arenas in stunning locations (a la Naples) - can you imagine the appeal of that coupled to Andy's star power? Instead they opted for a Glasgow industrial area over and again (sweetheart deal, I believe). It didn't make sense (as I kept saying), but it does now. For the last few years there has never been any intention of growing DC in GB, and now we know why. As you would expect, changes of the scale we have witnessed have been in the pipeline for several years and the big sell out was always going to happen.

[Linda]

I agree with every word of your above post, RB.

[WimbledonWestie]

I'm not sure I'd call Glasgow an extreme part of the Uk, after all we don't refer to London as an extreme part of the Uk.

I fully believe Glasgow has been favoured for ties due to the number of Scots connected o the team. After all, it was never held in Scotland prior to that . Holding ties in Scotland where there is no capacity for any other events is British tennis working with tennis Scotland to help grow the game and maintain interest by providing an opportunity for Scots to see live pro tennis. But I do appreciate its frosting for people in other areas. And if it's true re the LTA vote I am raging. ( however BTM membership is a condition of me playing for my club team and eligibility to club Wimbledon ballot so I won't be cutting off my nose to spite my face and cancelling my membership.)

[RosieBear]

I'm not sure I'd call Glasgow an extreme part of the Uk, after all we don't refer to London as an extreme part of the Uk.

Geographically speaking, London and Eastbourne are extreme south, Glasgow extreme north, when compared to central locations/UK considered as a whole. Hence DC was quite rightly moved away from E'b, a far south location, for accessibility/growth.

[angiebabez]

Glasgow is most certainly not an extreme part of the UK Lol!!!

[RosieBear]

Oh Ok, then neither is London or E'b so it should never have been moved in the first place lol. (except they are, and it should) It's totally right it went to Glasgow, but should have gone to a lot of other places as well, and if LTA were genuine about golden window of opportunity Andy brought that's exactly what they would have done.

All moot now tho, no ties anywhere anymore so there we go - north, south east and west all equally sh@fted.

[Rosalind]

I'm from London and so Glasgow is not ideal but the reception the Murrays get there and the added extra sparkle to the atmosphere more than makes up for a longer journey by far!

I'm going to try and by philosophical - Andy is nearing the end of his career and so we can't rely on him for DC going forward as in the past years. Kyle may or may not make such dizzying heights and even then he may or may not decide to play DC - new format or not. Unless we have other newbies coming along, we will not be in the top group anyway. The States getting great players again would do much to help the DC (new format or not) from TV point of view - but they just don't have them. I think the new format has been chosen by those who haven't a clue and that's clear to see regarding points we have all made.
But it may be, without a top player, that it has less impact on GB than it would have done if this had happened a few years ago.

[Josephine]

I don't think building temporary arenas is quite the same in the UK as in Naples - weather conditions are not exactly as reliable! ;)

And I don't think Andy is as loved elsewhere as in Glasgow. I 've sat in Davis Cup crowds in London away from a supporters group and there has been quite mixed reactions to Andy - the one other really enthusiastic fan, the supporting cos he's British, and OK we can support Ward now (the match wasn't played).

And the team wanted to win and in Glasgow the courts suited them and the atmosphere.

[exislander]

Glasgow is most certainly not an extreme part of the UK Lol!!!

Quite! What would you call Lerwick - or even Inverness! LOL! :laugh:

[lovetennis]

Another thought on the whole LTA did they or didn't they debate - since the proposal was approved on Thursday the LTA have not put out a statement about the result. I can't find one anyway - please correct me if I'm wrong. Just had a look on their webpages and sure enough there is the statement from Wednesday evening (before the vote) stating the "against" stance but nothing on this whole issue since. Tennis Australia responded to the ITF result very quickly putting out a statement expressing their disappointment in the result. With one and a half working days since the result the LTA have been unable to make a response or they have actively chosen not to make one. They did manage to email their members yesterday trying to sell tickets to next month's meaningless tie - it almost seemed like they were saying "you better make the most of it and think yourself lucky, and by the way it'll cost you 140 quid".

After coming out publicly on Weds to state their opposition, it's very strange that they don't feel they want to comment on the result. Or maybe it isn't strange at all, when you look at the rationale laid out by RB in her post this morning. Or if the delegate did cast the British votes for the proposal - I don't know how the votes are cast other than that it is a secret ballot. The word secret implies that only that delegate knows what he actually did. We certainly never will.

[lovetennis]

Glasgow is most certainly not an extreme part of the UK Lol!!!

Very much agree but I suspect the LTA probably view it that way, which in the case explains their actions

[RosieBear]

I don't think building temporary arenas is quite the same in the UK as in Naples - weather conditions are not exactly as reliable! ;)


Well roofless Wimbo and D. Park managed just fine. Plus, it absolutely poured in Naples but still had an amazing time! Anyway didn't have to be outdoors - so many beautiful grounds/buildings/locations that could have been used inc under cover. But no will and too late now. Gah! :sad:

[Josephine]

Well there you go - temoporary arenas are a disaster! :rolling:

[RosieBear]

Very much agree but I suspect the LTA probably view it that way, which in the case explains their actions

Yep. Just like they viewed London and E'b as too extreme for when T & G came along. Could have said, well what about Cornwall, now that's remote! but wasn't going to swing it. And for clarification, Glasgow suits me very well as I have friends that I can stay with in Lanark, plus I don't blame any Glaswegians for revelling in having ties, would be mad not to - I'm simply pointed out the glaring inconsistencies by the LTA - which are very clear if you consider the back story, and that they make a lot more sense since the changes have come to light.

[RosieBear]

Well there you go - temoporary arenas are a disaster! :rolling:

:laugh: Naples was fab-u-lous! Ghent wasn't too shabby either ;) tho location not so pretty.

[lovetennis]

:laugh: Naples was fab-u-lous! Ghent wasn't too shabby either ;) tho location not so pretty.

What you mean you didn't enjoy the sightseeing in IKEA? :shocked::laugh:

[Josephine]

:laugh: Naples was fab-u-lous! Ghent wasn't too shabby either ;) tho location not so pretty.

Glad you saw the funny side! Well we have to find humour where we can in this dreadful world :thumbup:

[WimbledonWestie]

Another thought on the whole LTA did they or didn't they debate - since the proposal was approved on Thursday the LTA have not put out a statement about the result. I can't find one anyway - please correct me if I'm wrong. Just had a look on their webpages and sure enough there is the statement from Wednesday evening (before the vote) stating the "against" stance but nothing on this whole issue since. Tennis Australia responded to the ITF result very quickly putting out a statement expressing their disappointment in the result. With one and a half working days since the result the LTA have been unable to make a response or they have actively chosen not to make one. They did manage to email their members yesterday trying to sell tickets to next month's meaningless tie - it almost seemed like they were saying "you better make the most of it and think yourself lucky, and by the way it'll cost you 140 quid".

After coming out publicly on Weds to state their opposition, it's very strange that they don't feel they want to comment on the result. Or maybe it isn't strange at all, when you look at the rationale laid out by RB in her post this morning. Or if the delegate did cast the British votes for the proposal - I don't know how the votes are cast other than that it is a secret ballot. The word secret implies that only that delegate knows what he actually did. We certainly never will.

I thought I saw one expressing disappointment in the outcome but pledging to work with the ITF. Though I've read so much my brain is addled.

[lovetennis]

I thought I saw one expressing disappointment in the outcome but pledging to work with the ITF. Though I've read so much my brain is addled.

Sounds a bit like the Australian one, maybe?

Ultimately as the official body in this country they should put out a formal statement, not just tweet etc. Organisations use social media to get their message out but usually it involves a link to the formal statement on their website. There is no statement on their website about the result but they did see fit to put out the one on Weds about voting against. A good Communications Manager would follow that up with a statement on the result and ensure the same communication channel was used. They are either still formulating a response (shouldn't be too hard should it ?- Tennis Australia managed it: express disappointment and say you'll have to follow further development of the plans) or they are deliberately choosing not to comment (for whatever reason)

Edit: Had a quick check on the British Tennis Twitter feed and there is no tweet about the result. There is the one about them opposing the proposal - couldn't resist replying to that and inviting them to comment on the outcome and confirm how they did actually vote

[patlowe]

I thought I saw one expressing disappointment in the outcome but pledging to work with the ITF. Though I've read so much my brain is addled.

I wonder are you thinking of the pre-vote statement they released on Wed, Clare? Quote "LTA.... remains supportive of the ITF and we will work together on the future of Davis Cup regardless of the outcome of the vote."

[patlowe]

I have read and reread all the posts on this thread. All of them are very balanced and valid making very good points and right now my head is in a spin! I feel sold out with regards to the tie next month, however I am still really looking forward to it as it means a meet up with all you lovely tennis-loving people who I would never have met had it not been for the late DC. From 2014 onwards, when I realised that actually being able to attend the ties was a very viable option, I have had the time of my life with Ghent being the best weekend of my whole life.The ties will always remain a big highlight of my life and I am so glad I (and you) made it possible to go to them. And the legacy of the late DC will be the camaraderie and many good friendships formed and maintained. So guys, really looking forward to up-coming tie when there will be no prizes for guessing the main topic of our conversation!
I'm not going to add any further comments on all the aftermath of 'the vote', it's all been said already and I concur with most of it. I'm just another very sad and disgruntled late DC fan.

[RosieBear]

Putting these here rather than newspaper thread because purely about the DC change:

'Davis Cup: Changes mean death of event' - Tomas Berdych
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/45224498

'One of my happiest days in life' - Gerard Pique on Davis Cup new format (yep, I know :furious: - get in line folks)
https://www.tennisworldusa.org/tennis/news/Davis_Cup/59036/-one-of-my-happiest-days-in-life--gerard-pique-on-davis-cup-new-format/

Davis Cup rule changes: Boris Becker fumes as Gerard Pique hails ‘best day of my life’
https://www.express.co.uk/sport/tennis/1004882/Davis-Cup-rule-changes-Gerard-Pique-Boris-Becker-Lleyton-Hewitt

TENNIS WORLD REACTS FERVENTLY TO REVAMPED DAVIS CUP
http://baseline.tennis.com/article/76088/tennis-reacts-fervently-revamped-davis-cup

Lleyton Hewitt frustrated with Davis Cup format
https://www.tennisworldusa.org/tennis/news/Tennis_Interviews/59046/lleyton-hewitt-frustrated-with-davis-cup-format/

Greg Rusedski: Davis Cup needed changes but this is too much
https://www.tennisworldusa.org/tennis/news/Davis_Cup/59026/greg-rusedski-davis-cup-needed-changes-but-this-is-too-much/

Barcelona star Gerard Pique celebrates wildly after his £2.3bn plan to revamp Davis Cup given go-ahead
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/tennis/article-6068159/Barcelona-star-Pique-celebrates-wildly-2-3bn-plan-revamp-Davis-Cup-given-ahead.html

The ITF Radically Changed the Davis Cup, and Players are Not Happy
https://lastwordontennis.com/2018/08/17/the-itf-radically-changed-the-davis-cup-and-players-are-not-happy/

[Jan]

Tweet from Stuart Fraser:

Stuart Fraser
‏Verified account @stu_fraser
2h2 hours ago

In response to claims that GB voted for Davis Cup reforms, representative David Rawlinson says: "The LTA board agreed to vote to oppose the Davis Cup reforms at the ITF's annual general meeting. I can give absolute assurance that I voted in accordance with our decision."

[lovetennis]

LTA have finally released a statement to say the delegate voted in accordance with the Board decision. It should never have got this far - if the ITF had used a transparent process there would never have been a chance for rumours to develop, and the LTA should have made a statement very soon after the vote result with whatever comment they wish to make about it. What a circus :rolleyes:

[RosieBear]

I wouldn't expect Mr Rawlinson to say anything else. Serious lack of transparency. All I know is that we will never know what really went on to secure this multi-billion pound deal, or for how long, or exactly who did what, but if we did ever did find out I'm sure we'd be raging.

[lovetennis]

It seems likely a lot of the votes came from the "one vote" nations. There are 82 of them so if they acted together they add up to a significant amount of votes. Saw a statement from the Ugandan delegate who said they voted for the proposals because it gives them 10 times as much funding as the current system does. It easy to see that's an attractive proposition to cash-poor nations who never get to participate in the World Group anyway so why would they care what format it uses. The ITF certainly knew how to pull in those votes didn't they? Investment in the sport in any country is a positive thing but it remains to be seen if those smaller countries will see the promised cash.

[JAMES4578]

A few articles from the New York Times (you should be able to view 10 free articles per month), from Ben RothenBerg and Christopher Clarey on the vote, aftermath and competition between ITF/ATP with similar competitions on the horizon. Both Sacha Zverev and Lucas Pouille have vowed not to play Davis Cup again, however participation will be still be a requirement for the Olympics. If anyone has problems can PM articles if interested.

Davis Cup Vote (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/16/sports/davis-cup-vote-itf.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection%2Fspo rts&action=click&contentCollection=sports&region=stream&module=stream_unit&version=latest&contentPlacement=6&pgtype=sectionfront)

Team Events-Quantity Over quality? (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/17/sports/davis-cup-itf-atp.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection%2Ften nis&action=click&contentCollection=tennis&region=stream&module=stream_unit&version=latest&contentPlacement=1&pgtype=sectionfront)

[Steven]

LTA have finally released a statement to say the delegate voted in accordance with the Board decision. It should never have got this far - if the ITF had used a transparent process there would never have been a chance for rumours to develop, and the LTA should have made a statement very soon after the vote result with whatever comment they wish to make about it. What a circus :rolleyes:

Agreed. I do think the LTA probably did cast their vote for no though.

I can think of at least one possible scenario, but I'd better explain who the characters are first in case some people aren't aware.

Martin Corrie was the president of the LTA at the start of this year but he has (temporarily) stepped aside because of the issues described in https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/mar/05/martin-corrie-stands-aside-lta-tennis - however, he appears to have kept his place on the ITF Board.

David Rawlinson took over as (temporary) LTA president and he was the delegate who cast the LTA's 12 votes, and who has stated today that he definitely did vote in accordance with the LTA's decision.

The guy from the DTB (German tennis federation) who raised doubts about the LTA's votes also complained that Corrie was going round lobbying for the changes. There were enough reports of that before the vote that I wouldn't be surprised if it was true, though I've seen no direct evidence.

As far as I can tell, Corrie was there in his ITF capacity, not in his LTA capacity, so if he believed in the changes, I guess he felt there would be no conflict of interest if he put on his ITF 'hat' and helped Haggerty campaign for them.

So, it seems at least plausible that Rawlinson did indeed vote no, but Corrie campaigned for yes. Then it's easy to imagine that, since he had previously always been known as an LTA person too, some "no" delegates smelt a rat - it's hardly surprising that conspiracy theories abound in that kind of fevered atmosphere, when the issue is so polarising and the result so shocking, but that doesn't mean the conspiracy theories are necessarily accurate.

Anyway, that would mean the LTA didn't lie about the way they voted. If they secretly agreed that Rawlinson would vote no but Corrie should campaign for yes (i.e. if they played for opposite sides with the blessing of the LTA), that would still be scandalous but I haven't seen any evidence of that. If not, then I'm not sure Corrie campaigning for a yes vote off his own bat (I repeat *IF* he actually did that) would have been entirely ethical, unless he has severed his ties with the LTA completely by now, but our ire shouldn't be directed at the LTA in that case.

I wonder if we'll later find out that Corrie had severed his ties with the LTA and suddenly find that he's got a job with the AELTC ... but no, that's naughty, unwarranted speculation, isn't it.

[lovetennis]

Thank you for all of that background Steven it does really help to put it all into context. What a bizarre situation if Corrie was campaigning for yes while the LTA were for the no vote. A tangled web indeed

[WimbledonWestie]

This is totally irrelevant to this thread but given the doom and gloom I want to share the wonderful day I've just had at my tennis club. I invited Judy Murray to come and do a parent child coaching session and officially open our club house.mShe came today , the children had a ball and she seemed to enjoy the many cakes, prosecco and gifts we had fir her. She's already tweeted a pic of the welcome we gave her - she stopped half way up hill to club when she saw the children holding up Welcome Judy cards and asked if she could take a pic- and, we were on STV news!!! It was just brilliant!

[lovetennis]

This is totally irrelevant to this thread but given the doom and gloom I want to share the wonderful day I've just had at my tennis club. I invited Judy Murray to come and do a parent child coaching session and officially open our club house.mShe came today , the children had a ball and she seemed to enjoy the many cakes, prosecco and gifts we had fir her. She's already tweeted a pic of the welcome we gave her - she stopped half way up hill to club when she saw the children holding up Welcome Judy cards and asked if she could take a pic- and, we were on STV news!!! It was just brilliant!

Saw Judy's tweet with the pic. Looks like everyone had a great time

[Sallydaisy]

from twitter:
@_JamieMac_ (https://twitter.com/_JamieMac_) 11h11 hours ago (https://twitter.com/_JamieMac_/status/1031334966020460545)
Someone remarked to Murray on his Q + A that the ITF "don't care what fans thinks" in relation to the new Davis Cup format, to which Andy replied "they don't seem to care what the players think either" Andy also expressed sadness that DC will likely never be back in Scotland

[suttontennis]

from twitter:
@_JamieMac_ (https://twitter.com/_JamieMac_) 11h11 hours ago (https://twitter.com/_JamieMac_/status/1031334966020460545)
Thinking a year or two down the road, if we have to qualify for the finals by playing in the February home/away ties, that could still be played in Glasgow couldn't it ?

[Caro]

Interesting re: Andy's response, but I would say this ... we (the fans) don't know what the players think either Andy, well not the British players anyway! Not a peep from any of them! I have been raging about this tbh .... but I now have to suspect with all this hoo hah surrounding the vote, that they have been advised into silence ... otherwise it looks like they just don't care! And it certainly has never appeared that way on court or in previous statements / interviews re: DC.

[RosieBear]

Interesting re: Andy's response, but I would say this ... we (the fans) don't know what the players think either Andy, well not the British players anyway! Not a peep from any of them! I have been raging about this tbh .... but I now have to suspect with all this hoo hah surrounding the vote, that they have been advised into silence ... otherwise it looks like they just don't care! And it certainly has never appeared that way on court or in previous statements / interviews re: DC.

So true, Caro. The silence of players is deafening since the vote. Yet more shadiness around the vote, or rather secret ballot. Why on earth was it secret? In comparable igo protocol, the justification for secret voting is to protect individuals from intimidation but when it is States casting the vote it is done publicly except in a few circumstances when what they are voting on is considered highly sensitive. This was a tennis tournamnent fgs, not a matter of international security, so why a secret ballot when it was countries, not individuals, voting? Billions of dollars at stake in a highly lucrative yet highly contraversial proposal - but yeah sure, break with protocol and make the vote secret, that's not at all dubious.

On a personal level, just when I thought this summer couldn't get any more ******, Davis Cup is killed off in, what is to me, a blatant stitch up. But to be honest, this might have been the killer blow, but the LTA have, to my mind, been slowly killing DC/tennis for years. At least we are spared our home ties dwindling to like a Novak-less Belgrade, that is a small mercy I suppose.

Edit: Caro - ultimately all our anger and disappointment is just wasted energy because nothing is going to bring our DC back, so as hard as it is we've got to enjoy our memories and let the rest go. I hope you have a fantastic time in Glasgow, but must admit I'm glad I'm not going, it's over for me (I'll miss seeing you so much tho :grouphug:)

[Josephine]

I haven't totally understood - but surely the Novak-less Belgrade type tie is part of the reason for needing change to DC?

Plus I think the problems of DC go far beyond anything LTA have done.

[Alis]

I'm just watching my recording of the 2015 final between Andy and Goffin. Such pride, such passion from the fans and such amazing tennis from the players. I can't believe we are throwing away the chance to see the likes of this again. What a travesty - what a tragedy!!

[RosieBear]

I'm just watching my recording of the 2015 final between Andy and Goffin. Such pride, such passion from the fans and such amazing tennis from the players. I can't believe we are throwing away the chance to see the likes of this again. What a travesty - what a tragedy!!

So true, Alis. Davis Cup is (was) so special - it brings out the very best in so many players. Andy was a beast in the final and in so many rubbers, but also Wardy against Isner, Evo against Tursanov, Kyle in Belgrade, Jamie and Dom overcoming their nerves and becoming dubs powerhouses, Tim and Greg pushing the US to the brink, Cam's mega-debut. Too many memories to list. Players transform when they pull on their national shirts, and the fans are with them on every point. Nothing brings new people, especially youngsters, into tennis like DC. So yep, wholeheartedly agree, for an abundance of reasons it is a travesty and tragedy to lose this uniquely special event.

[patlowe]

Stu Fraser on twitter:"How would Andy Murray have voted in the Davis Cup reform vote last week? 'I would have abstained. Neither are the correct option.'"

(er, think it should be neither is the correct option, Andy!):lol:

But main point is don't think he thinks much of the vote.

[RosieBear]

Very diplomatic, Andy!

To me, the only credible and proportionate opposition to the plan was from the Aussies. They were vocal, adamant, co-ordinated and timely with their objection. They really meant it. They'll always have my respect.

[exislander]

I am never sure if abstention is effective. Is it not better to vote against something you are not in favour of? if you think the status quo needs changing then you propose an alternative.

[patlowe]

Winnie, you may have hit this on the head....did anyone infact ever come up with an alternative? Perhaps an alternative wasn't 'allowed' on the agenda?

[lovetennis]

So true, Alis. Davis Cup is (was) so special - it brings out the very best in so many players. Andy was a beast in the final and in so many rubbers, but also Wardy against Isner, Evo against Tursanov, Kyle in Belgrade, Jamie and Dom overcoming their nerves and becoming dubs powerhouses, Tim and Greg pushing the US to the brink, Cam's mega-debut. Too many memories to list. Players transform when they pull on their national shirts, and the fans are with them on every point. Nothing brings new people, especially youngsters, into tennis like DC. So yep, wholeheartedly agree, for an abundance of reasons it is a travesty and tragedy to lose this uniquely special event.

Ah those special matches where a lower ranked player steps up to the plate and plays inspired tennis. In some ways, much as I love watching the great players like Andy in DC matches, the less feted players performing miracles against higher ranked opponents is just as special. It's their moment to shine and some will crumble, others (like Wardy & Cam) grab it with both hands and play out of their minds. What other chances do they get to have a platform to play at this level? The occasional 1st round match against a top player at a Slam maybe but that lacks the atmosphere and inspiration that DC brings. Priceless moments. The ITF clearly know the price of everything (in particular how to buy the votes of lowly ranked nations) and the value of nothing.

[lovetennis]

Winnie, you may have hit this on the head....did anyone infact ever come up with an alternative? Perhaps an alternative wasn't 'allowed' on the agenda?

I don't think it was. The vote was for yes or no on the Kosmos proposal. I agree that abstention seems pretty pointless but I guess Andy meant he wanted something in between the current DC format and the new one. I did read that one nation did abstain but no idea how true that is - we're back to how would anyone know when the vote is supposed to secret?

[exislander]

I don't think it was. The vote was for yes or no on the Kosmos proposal. I agree that abstention seems pretty pointless but I guess Andy meant he wanted something in between the current DC format and the new one. I did read that one nation did abstain but no idea how true that is - we're back to how would anyone know when the vote is supposed to secret?

I do realise there was no alternative on the table at that meeting and also that many players, by their absence from DC ties, have indicated their opposition to the current format so some change was required but it seems strange to me that the players have no say and apparently little influence, in such a decision. From what I have read, the retention of home and away for the first round matches was added to the original idea of the single venue end of season event because of objections. It is a pity that other ideas such as not having the DC every year could not have been given consideration at some point in the last year or two - but I guess the main factor has always been the money. I see Andy is still reported as saying it can be tried and we can go back if it does not work. I hope he is right!
I will also await with interest to see how successful, or not, the ATP version of a World Team Cup will be in Australia in January 2020, only some 6 weeks after the ITF event.

[JAMES4578]

I know that some players were unconvinced by the status quo / Kosmos proposals and ridiculous they no formal role in the process even if you would not expect them to be the ultimate decision makers, however the only way to ensure an alternative scenario was to vote against-abstention can often be a cop out. Andy's idea that the format can easily revert is unrealistic in my view, at least in the short term. There was a different solution proposed last year which involved reducing singles to best of 3 but ultimately it was rejected. originally talk was of semis/finals at neutral venue but it was later dropped in 2017. https://www.daviscup.com/en/news/265901.aspx

[Stell]

I think they shouldn't have changed it and just brought back the points system like they used to have years ago. Instead of having points for winning a match, they could have had points for winning a set and then double the points for the winner of the match.

[lovetennis]

The Pique/Kosmos Cup must be getting the message from the players that November is not a good idea https://twitter.com/russellcfuller/status/1033433439062712323

[glenys]

Well (Sorry been on holiday) - Sad and angry that this proposal went through - September will be my last DC tie - It's been a blast and I'll miss meeting up with you all.

May have to get together at other events during the year (Nottingham anyone? lol)

[karanga]

DAVIS Cup captain Lleyton Hewitt is hoping to assemble a full-strength Australian team for the World Group play-off in Austria next month despite the tie appearing to count for nothing.

Last week’s decision by the International Tennis Federation (ITF) to radically overhaul the historic tournament has put a big question mark on the value of the clay-court tie in Graz.

Tennis Australia chief executive Craig Tiley said that, while bitterly disappointed, Australia would still fulfill their Davis Cup obligations for the year.


https://www.news.com.au/sport/tennis/davis-cup-australia-wont-let-disappointment-of-format-demise-cloud-judgement-against-austria/news-story/736e5755f164a40ffe23b47a2d80ea0c

[JerryD]

Well it seems the reason for cramming the Davis Cup into one week and investing do muvhbis no clearer. The best nvestors want to use the weeks thatvoreviously occupied 2 of the 4 weeks of DC with lucrative exhibitions. They seem more attentive to the details of these than the DC. It is just an afterthought now they gave the calendar space they wanted https://www.telegraph.co.uk/tennis/2018/09/20/tennis-poised-new-majesty-cup-tournament-winner-takes-pot-75mprize/

So this talk of potentially having the finals in September is nonsense. The event that will clash with the laver is their new exhibition. They will also be staging one for men and women around the time rhatcwas previously the quarters

[WimbledonWestie]

Feels like kosmos are stealthily trying to take over tennis. First they mess up DC, now this. What will October's offering be. So far all they've done is splash around their money with events that do nothing to enhance the sport.

[Linda]

How on earth are they going to persuade 64 players to take part in a tournament where 63 of them receive no prize money at all? Sounds like a non starter to me.

[RosieBear]

Feels like kosmos are stealthily trying to take over tennis. First they mess up DC, now this. What will October's offering be. So far all they've done is splash around their money with events that do nothing to enhance the sport.

Thanks for the info, Jerry.

And couldn't agree more, Westie - that is *exactly* what's going on. I'm not one for paranoia or wild theories but I've always felt there is so much manoeuvering going on, and we don't know a fraction of it, but can guarantee we'd be disgusted if we did because none of it would be fan friendly or ethical. It's a horrible situation for fans - we intuitively know we are being mugged off badly, but we don't have specific detail, so are left with a general, vague anger that's hard to process. I hate it, tbh!

[WimbledonWestie]

Draw for qualifiers is Wednesday- so maybe hear the wildcards tomorrow? Unless they make it part of the draw announcement.

[Stell]

Looking forward to this afternoon. I still, presume, they'll be announcing the wildcards either before or during the draw.

[exislander]

They surely have to announce them before the draw because they will not be in the draw?

[exislander]

We have a wildcard!!!!!!

[Hawkeye]

So, does that mean no qualifier in February?

edit... Yes it does.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/45651624

[Stell]

I was looking forward to going somewhere, until I read that we and Argentina have been given the wildcards.

[Stell]

I was really banking on us going into the draw, as I'd been given three free nights for the tie. I've now got to use them before or during next May. So, I'm now hoping for the LTA to say yes to them having another Glasgow trophy or another Loughborough trophy.

[davech]

Well, that's disappointing. At least there would've been a tie for the fans to go to. Now, nothing. Isn't the new format Davis Cup wonderful. :grrr:

[KnightOwl]

I guess we’ll have to have an AMFF get together without a DC at some point, then. Very disappointed, although I suppose it’s good that we will definitely be in the finals. Still a shame :sad:

[KnightOwl]

Unless we pick one of the other ties, and go to that instead ;)

[lovetennis]

Well, that's disappointing. At least there would've been a tie for the fans to go to. Now, nothing. Isn't the new format Davis Cup wonderful. :grrr:

Yep that's one of the charms of the Kosmos/Pique Cup - your team gets "rewarded" with a wildcard or get to the semis in the previous year and you never get to see them play. Unless you want to shell out for whichever TV company that buys the rights so that you can have a substandard experience watching on your sofa, after years of watching thrilling DC tennis live. Can you tell I despise this new format? I'm done with it

[JAMES4578]

certainly disappointing for the fans, though of course no guarantee it would've been a viable trip for many- but now not even the chance. Nonetheless think Leon was hoping for a wild card and suppose it means the team will avoid a challenging tie, however hardly ideal in any case.

[Hawkeye]

The one thing they've done right is picked justifiable wild cards in the last two winners who didn't make the semis.

[KnightOwl]

Does anyone know what time the draw is supposed to happen?

[patlowe]

Apologies. This is probably not posted in the correct thread, but I couldn't find another suitable one.

I find this interesting, am I right to get excited or to get my hopes up?

Serious doubts over participation of top players at the inaugural Davis Cup Finals...……..


https://t.co/dZNpDHX7EU

(https://twitter.com/stu_fraser/status/1050056042359529472?s=09)

[patlowe]

This thread had been closed, so thank you mods for re-opening it and moving my post to here.

[lovetennis]

No surprises that the Pique Cup is struggling to attract top players for Nov 2019. Anybody who knows anything about tennis knew that was never going to fly with the players. Serves them right for letting a footballer hijack DC for financial gain. More foolish are the ITF who allegedly do know something about tennis so should never have accepted the proposal

Stu Fraser's article also indicates that the original rumours of Switzerland & Serbia getting the wild cards were true - proving the point that wild cards were simply a way of trying to entice top players, rather than based on any kind of merit. That failed too so they moved the goalposts and opted for GB & Argentina as recent champions (at least trying to make it look like like the wild cards were based on some kind of semi-recent performance)

Gloating isn't a particularly attractive quality but I'm prepared to make an exception and gloat until the cows come home if the ITF's arrogance backfires spectacularly. And more importantly they might have to consider other options for DC again

[jagmad]

No surprises that the Pique Cup is struggling to attract top players for Nov 2019. Anybody who knows anything about tennis knew that was never going to fly with the players. Serves them right for letting a footballer hijack DC for financial gain. More foolish are the ITF who allegedly do know something about tennis so should never have accepted the proposal

Stu Fraser's article also indicates that the original rumours of Switzerland & Serbia getting the wild cards were true - proving the point that wild cards were simply a way of trying to entice top players, rather than based on any kind of merit. That failed too so they moved the goalposts and opted for GB & Argentina as recent champions (at least trying to make it look like like the wild cards were based on some kind of semi-recent performance)

Gloating isn't a particularly attractive quality but I'm prepared to make an exception and gloat until the cows come home if the ITF's arrogance backfires spectacularly. And more importantly they might have to consider other options for DC again

You could be barking up the RIGHT tree wondering why the ITF would go along with such a lame duck, in the first place.
Especially ignoring the fans. Money?
Begs the question if they have signed up to money only there as a share of the TV rights and or,/ if the top names turn up.
Why would the ITF top brass push it, when they are pretty sure it's never gonna fly?????
Hmmmmmm.????
Oh I know!
I think the penny has just dropped. Actually it sounded a lot heavier come to think of it.

;)

That's probably why the promise of the money is wobbling/running out?
Already spent?

[jagmad]

Also I thought that if this didn't get passed it would bankrupt the ITF?
Well it's got through and if it fails will the ITF go down the pan?
I doubt it.
I think a lot of money has already gone. And not to the grass roots either.
More like the top of the tree. After all votes can be bought. If not with cash then with fear.

[lovetennis]

So Pique has turned up in Shanghai and meeting Djokovic. These attempts to try and incentivise/sweet-talk the top players into playing the Pique Cup are all a bit late in the day and starting to look a bit desperate.

[lovetennis]

The desperation is all the more apparent when you hear that Pique is holding a press conference this coming week. Begs the question, is he trying to lock in commitment from Djokovic so that he can announce it at the press conference in a few days?

[Linda]

I just hope that both Fed and Rafa refuse to commit to it, as they are the ones who would pull in the crowds and make it a success.

[lovetennis]

I just hope that both Fed and Rafa refuse to commit to it, as they are the ones who would pull in the crowds and make it a success.

Pretty sure Fed has written it off already. Rafa might be inclined to play with it being in Madrid but he's hardly a firm bet to show up at the end of the season at this stage of his career.

[JerryD]

He may have been trying but Djokovic said that he didn’t think two big tournies the new “Davis Cup” and the return of the atp world team cup being so close together could work. He said the timing of the D.C. one was bad especially for top players. personally has committed to playing in the atp version from 2020 when it starts and he will prioritise that one.

[JerryD]

Fed said he didn’t think he could see himself playing in Feb and he didn’t think the new D.C. was really designed for him but for the new generation (very similar to what Stan said to Kev). There was talk that people would have to play in order to qualify for the Olympics but the head of the itv suggested that Roger would qualify anyway so I imagine he would allow him to the same would have to be true of Raffa and djoko. Though who knows really. The prize money will be huge so it could attract those outside the top 10

[jagmad]

I missed this and stumbled upon it earlier. Had a quick run through earlier post's and I didn't see it posted.
Apologies if I've got it wrong but for anyone else who missed it, here it is anyway:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/tennis/2018/08/11/davis-cup-war-exposes-dark-underside-itf/

[jagmad]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/tennis/2018/09/20/tennis-poised-new-majesty-cup-tournament-winner-takes-pot-75mprize/

Here we go again. Rolls eyes.

[lovetennis]

So Kosmos held a presser today. Was Pique hoping to announce a big player's involvement?(hence his meeting with Djokovic last week) Didn't happen, just confirmed Madrid as the venue, hard courts as the surface, and the November dates. All of which we knew already. No doubt ego and money invested will prevent any kind of backtracking. Hope you're happy Mr Haggerty and the ITF

[jagmad]

So Kosmos held a presser today. Was Pique hoping to announce a big player's involvement?(hence his meeting with Djokovic last week) Didn't happen, just confirmed Madrid as the venue, hard courts as the surface, and the November dates. All of which we knew already. No doubt ego and money invested will prevent any kind of backtracking. Hope you're happy Mr Haggerty and the ITF

I'd like to hold a presser for Pee kay et all. About 40 tons from 100 ft should do it?

[jagmad]

And we thought it took a long time for them to release their stance on DC?

https://www.tennis365.com/grand-slam/wimbledon/how-tennis-changed-from-white-to-yellow-tennis-balls-thanks-to-david-attenborough/

!4 years?????

[jagmad]

https://www.tennis365.com/davis-cup/44771/

It's good to talk!
If they're listening that is??

[karanga]

Rafael Nadal hopes to play Davis Cup from 18 to 24 November 2019. The Spanish player has formally committed to the new 18-team competition as long as he does not suffer injuries. 'It is great news that an event this size is hosted in Madrid', said Nadal through a statement about the Spanish city hosting the two editions of the event in 2019 and 2020.

https://www.tennisworldusa.org/tennis/news/Rafael_Nadal/61978/rafael-nadal-commits-to-2019-davis-cup-it-will-be-even-more-special-/

[Hawkeye]

He kinda sorta hasta.

But if it had been anywhere else...

[patmoren]

He kinda sorta hasta.

But if it had been anywhere else...

Probably pressured into saying yes.

[goldfish]

Pretty easy to say 'yes' this far ahead - so much time to withdraw

[jagmad]

ITF president David Haggerty says the tournament could amalgamate with a revamped Davis Cup in the future.

For revamped read messed up, Any Davis cup without Home/away ties is no Davis Cup. imho.

Either tourny is about as close to DC, as this is to a Rolls Royce:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-1970s-BLUE-ROLLS-ROYCE-ME630-PHOTOING-CHINESE-BATTERY-POWERED-TIN-TOY/303014317419?hash=item468d0f8d6b:g:aboAAOSw6jJb~JY 5:rk:2:pf:0

[lovetennis]

Contain your excitement AMFF, the Davis Cup has made a momentous announcement regarding the new Kosmos/Pique Cup.......wait for it, wait for it...

Louis Vuitton is designing the new travel case for the "Davis Cup"

Yes they have actually announced this as if anyone would remotely care. I think we take this as a sign of the tone of the new event - style over substance to attract the corporates and people who like to be seen. Just don't know whether to laugh at the sheer ridiculousness of it or weep (again) at the destruction of this once-great event

[WimbledonWestie]

Wonder how it survived before!!!! Dear oh dear. anyway, where's it needing to travel to, surely it can just sit in Madrid! Bet it costs more than my wee club needs to replace its sadly crumbling courts/

[lovetennis]

Wonder how it survived before!!!! Dear oh dear. anyway, where's it needing to travel to, surely it can just sit in Madrid! Bet it costs more than my wee club needs to replace its sadly crumbling courts/

Bet they could build you a new clubhouse and new courts with the money they're going to waste on fripperies.

[WimbledonWestie]

We have the new clubhouse- so we wd take floodlights instead lol.

[lovetennis]

We have the new clubhouse- so we wd take floodlights instead lol.

You could always put in a bid, afterall Kosmos made a big deal in their proposal about how they would plough money back into grassroots tennis. The time will come when they will have to put their money where their mouth is.....or will those promises go up in smoke when they're spending money on a designer case for a trophy? :hmm:

[patmoren]

We have a clubhouse and floodlights but could do with a roof!!!!

[jagmad]

You could always put in a bid, afterall Kosmos made a big deal in their proposal about how they would plough money back into grassroots tennis. The time will come when they will have to put their money where their mouth is.....or will those promises go up in smoke when they're spending money on a designer case for a trophy? :hmm:

Is that code for brown envelope/back pocket/off shore account???
Yeah go for it WW you could wind up working there covertly. As a double agent siphoning some of the $ to where it should go while bringing down the Piquet cup.
Hell you could even get our DC back. Always said it's not what you know it's who you know.
Damn did I just dream that out loud?
Oh well back to sleep.

[lovetennis]

It's the first First Round weekend of the Pique Cup. Todd Woodbridge is not impressed with how it went - even though Aus won their tie, he's scathing about the new format on Twitter. Comments about the lack of atmosphere and the fact that the format allowed Aus to win in a total of 3 hours and 48 minutes of tennis. Interesting comments from spectators who were there too - no excitement due to the format and how they feel shortchanged. Imagine travelling a long way for a tie and only getting less than 4 hours of play. Some also caught on that by winning the tie, Aus are now guaranteed a place in the 2020 Finals so no more home ties for at least 2 years - I remember thinking this when the proposals were approved - winning and doing well is actually worse for the fans because you will never get a home tie if you keep automatically qualifying for the Finals. For a sports format it is :barmy:

My conspiracy theorist tendencies keep telling me that ITF and Kosmos will scrap the First Round at some point - they never wanted it in the first place and added it so there was some home/away element to get their proposals through. They won't care about the lack of atmosphere and lack of value for money for fans. When people drift away (and looking at the Aus tie photos, many already have, presumably followed by many more who were disappointed) the ITF will say the First Round doesn't work and scrap it, just leaving their money-grabbing year end shindig. And people will walk away from that too when they realise they travelled a long way for a lot of money to watch their team play in an unexciting format.

We tried to tell them, they didn't listen. The reports from Aus cemented my feeling that I will never attend the Pique Cup - so sad that DC is not only dead, it's buried.

[jagmad]

It's the first First Round weekend of the Pique Cup. Todd Woodbridge is not impressed with how it went - even though Aus won their tie, he's scathing about the new format on Twitter. Comments about the lack of atmosphere and the fact that the format allowed Aus to win in a total of 3 hours and 48 minutes of tennis. Interesting comments from spectators who were there too - no excitement due to the format and how they feel shortchanged. Imagine travelling a long way for a tie and only getting less than 4 hours of play. Some also caught on that by winning the tie, Aus are now guaranteed a place in the 2020 Finals so no more home ties for at least 2 years - I remember thinking this when the proposals were approved - winning and doing well is actually worse for the fans because you will never get a home tie if you keep automatically qualifying for the Finals. For a sports format it is :barmy:

My conspiracy theorist tendencies keep telling me that ITF and Kosmos will scrap the First Round at some point - they never wanted it in the first place and added it so there was some home/away element to get their proposals through. They won't care about the lack of atmosphere and lack of value for money for fans. When people drift away (and looking at the Aus tie photos, many already have, presumably followed by many more who were disappointed) the ITF will say the First Round doesn't work and scrap it, just leaving their money-grabbing year end shindig. And people will walk away from that too when they realise they travelled a long way for a lot of money to watch their team play in an unexciting format.

We tried to tell them, they didn't listen. The reports from Aus cemented my feeling that I will never attend the Pique Cup - so sad that DC is not only dead, it's buried.

I truly believe that class is permanent and cream will always rise to the top. This new order is neither. There's enough top player's/people out there biding their time.
Watching waiting for it all to fail and when the time is right and the pot empties, then they will strike. With one Dwight F. Davis, who's grave/name and hard work Pique
and his money hungry crowed have waked all over,at the front leading the charge

None of them will regret it unless it's a financial flop. Which proves their intent. I don't know how long we're going to have to wait.
That will depend on the size of the pot. Ultimately it won't succeed named DC cos it ain't. Not even close.
I'd prefer them to call it, The Pique Cup or anything but DC. Cos at the minute "it's an ugly charlatan masquerading as a gem."

[cazza99]

I have formed a new thread for the 2019 Davis Cup and moved posts across. http://www.andymurrayfanforum.com/forums/showthread.php?3697-Davis-Cup-2019

Please keep this thread for th general discussion of the format of the new Davis Cup and ATP World Team Cup.

[jagmad]

If this is in the wrong place please feel free to put it where you want to.
I think that sums up Sasha's feelings but he put it so poignantly.
http://www.livetennis.com/category/livetennis-news/alexander-zverev-reinforces-stance-towards-davis-cup-finals-20190202/?fbclid=IwAR2X8kfzKEs3aKsWz9vIzIqj0Xgcg8KfETUXicCs P3878_NHva-7mQ4GWXk

[Hawkeye]

So, he doesn't object to the competition, just the timing.

[lovetennis]

Leon's enthusiastic about the new format https://twitter.com/LeonSmith/status/1091798670561955843

Sorry Leon, just can't agree with you on this one

[angiebabez]

Leon's enthusiastic about the new format https://twitter.com/LeonSmith/status/1091798670561955843

Sorry Leon, just can't agree with you on this one

Me neither....and I told him so :sad:

[jagmad]

So, he doesn't object to the competition, just the timing.

Far from it but I'm sure you know that?

Alexander Zverev had already made it clear that he wasn’t interested in playing the revamped Davis Cup Finals in November - and the World No. 3 wanted to reinforce his stance after helping Germany qualify with a win over Hungary on the weekend.

However, if you thought the euphoria of helping his nation qualify for the Davis Cup Finals, to be played at the end of November in Madrid, would push Zverev into changing his mind about competing, think again.

[Hawkeye]

As he says, he wasn't interested due to its timing. Nothing to do with his thoughts on the tournament, especially given that he has just played in it.

"
“I will not play Davis Cup in November,” Zverev was quoted as saying by The Times (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/sport/roger-federer-and-novak-djokovic-unsure-whether-to-play-in-revamped-davis-cup-f65bwhd3c) in October last year. “In November [after the ATP Finals], I do not want to play tennis any more. All the top guys will say the same thing.

“We have one and a half months off in our season, and that’s at the end of November and December. Making a tournament at the end of November, it’s crazy. By the end of the year, we are all tired. For us as top players, we had discussions, we had talks with the ATP on how to make the season shorter and not longer. No, it’s not happening, and I guarantee you I won’t be the only one.”"

[jagmad]

Leon's enthusiastic about the new format https://twitter.com/LeonSmith/status/1091798670561955843

Sorry Leon, just can't agree with you on this one

Quote from replies: "Interesting to see Spanish commercial business being advertised courtside, on centre court at Australia v Bosnia tie in Adelaide."

Interesting is not the word I would use. But then?

[goldfish]

I must admit that I took Leon's comment to be very tongue in cheek but maybe that's because sarcasm runs very deep in my family. Finding it hard to take any interest in DC at all.

[jagmad]

As he says, he wasn't interested due to its timing. Nothing to do with his thoughts on the tournament, especially given that he has just played in it.

"
“I will not play Davis Cup in November,” Zverev was quoted as saying by The Times (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/sport/roger-federer-and-novak-djokovic-unsure-whether-to-play-in-revamped-davis-cup-f65bwhd3c) in October last year. “In November [after the ATP Finals], I do not want to play tennis any more. All the top guys will say the same thing.

“We have one and a half months off in our season, and that’s at the end of November and December. Making a tournament at the end of November, it’s crazy. By the end of the year, we are all tired. For us as top players, we had discussions, we had talks with the ATP on how to make the season shorter and not longer. No, it’s not happening, and I guarantee you I won’t be the only one.”"

I think you might find there's more to it than just November? Players have to be careful how they voice disapproval so as not to be to out of favour with the powers that be.
Not biting the hand that feeds them? So I believe that sassha has stuck to the timing issue as that's the biggest stick to beat the drum with.
It's also one that is the hardest for the ITF and ATP to sort if they want to keep it to the one week format.
As for playing in the February qualifications below is a quote from another piece about Sasha on the web.
Of course the ATP Finals is also in November, but he didn’t mention that event. And he’ll still have to play Davis Cup at least in February qualifications if he wants to participate in the Olympics.

I don't think he's a fan of any of the changes really. He's just sticking his wedge in the biggest crack that's all. When it all falls apart and the money either dries up or it's not reaping the profit's cos it's
not bringing in the top player's with the exception of Nadal. Then the stuff about it being for the fans will rise to the surface. And a rethink will be in order. Without the influence of $$$$$$$$ calling the shots.
And Pique and his ilk can Pique off.

[lovetennis]

I must admit that I took Leon's comment to be very tongue in cheek but maybe that's because sarcasm runs very deep in my family. Finding it hard to take any interest in DC at all.

I don't think it was tongue in cheek. At the end of last September's tie in his on-court interview he tried to get us on board (cue some good natured boos from the crowd, aimed at the changes not Leon personally of course). I get that as Captain he has to work with the format he's presented with but I think he is a lot more positive about it than we fans are - not a big ask mind you, seeing as many of us detest the new format

[jagmad]

http://www.livetennis.com/category/tournaments/pique-to-prove-wrong-critics-of-new-look-davis-cup-20190215/?fbclid=IwAR2a-oewDISjIxb7bsA-HQKmmpkNBetzxzTPlXgqONxlJFurYZ8ec8SU-og


'We have to prove that they are wrong.'

Gerard Pique on critics - like Hewitt and Federer - of the new-look Davis Cup

[lovetennis]

Mike Dickson of Daily Mail talks to Pique https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/tennis/article-6706323/Barcelona-star-Messi-joins-pal-Gerard-Pique-Davis-Cup-venture.html


Pique - "We are talking with different groups of fans that want to come from Chile, Colombia, Belgium and other countries. One of our main objectives is that a lot of fans will travel here."

Hmmmm that confirms the "rent-a-crowd" theory I have about the We Are Tennis group. I always thought that BNP Paribas initiative was about creating fan groups they could parachute in to the single venue to generate atmosphere for the TV cameras.

[Caro]

http://www.livetennis.com/category/tournaments/pique-to-prove-wrong-critics-of-new-look-davis-cup-20190215/?fbclid=IwAR2a-oewDISjIxb7bsA-HQKmmpkNBetzxzTPlXgqONxlJFurYZ8ec8SU-og


'We have to prove that they are wrong.'

Gerard Pique on critics - like Hewitt and Federer - of the new-look Davis Cup

So a 20 time GS champion and a DC captain / former player are wrong and a football person is right then eh Mr Pique??! Ok ....:angry::angry:

[angiebabez]

So a 20 time GS champion and a DC captain / former player are wrong and a football person is right then eh Mr Pique??! Ok ....:angry::angry:

What a twerp

[jagmad]

So a 20 time GS champion and a DC captain / former player are wrong and a football person is right then eh Mr Pique??! Ok ....:angry::angry:

"And if everything else fails with the big players, what do we do then Heg?" "We do what we did to get the vote through in the first place Piq, more money, fear and underhandedness.
Always works, just ask any big leader of any organisation.. Nah don't worry can't fail. Anyway by the end of the 20 years the'll all have forgotten or given in.
Don't worry it's in the bag. Well so long as your Kosmos bag isn't empty. Mind you the crowed might cost you a bit.
How much is left now?"
;)

[Sallydaisy]

Source Daily Fail apparently:


Davis Cup by Rakuten Madrid Finals@DavisCupFinals6h
@andy_murray : "If @LeonSmith (Davis Cup Captain) called me up & asked me to come and play doubles,I'd do it although I'd want to be playing singles. I enjoy the team environment.I'm curious to experience the new format." Source:Daily Mail


Leon Smith@LeonSmith


(https://twitter.com/LeonSmith)

https://www.emoji.co.uk/files/apple-emojis/objects-ios/595-mobile-phone-with-rightwards-arrow-at-left.png

[exislander]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/50125113

GB team is Andy, Dan, Jamie and Neal .......and?

[Hawkeye]

Better get the tournament thread moved then...

[cazza99]

Please discuss Madrid Davis Cup in the main thread in Andy Rules. http://www.andymurrayfanforum.com/forums/showthread.php?3697-Davis-Cup-2019-18-24th-November-(MADRID)-WORLD-GROUP-THREAD&p=279349#post279349

If anyone wants to discuss who is going please post in Coaches Corner. http://www.andymurrayfanforum.com/forums/showthread.php?4400-Davis-(PIQUE)-Cup-Madrid-who-is-going

This thread is for discussing the actual format.

[Hawkeye]

One big happy family?

Davis Cup aims to add women's event to men's Finals event
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/50513604

[Rosalind]

Am I the only one who hasn't even watched it? I don't have Prime since Antwerp week and decided against it.

I'm remembering a woman I meet in Ghent. As at Nov 2015, she had seen Andy's 2013 Wimbledon win live and his US win in 2012 and I was exceedingly jealous of that! She wasn't such a huge fan but she was interested in both tennis and Andy to a certain level for sure. She just had the money to be able to shell out for this and that as and when. I had a meal with her and it was sort of obvious due to various things she said that she didn't have an in-depth knowledge because she wasn't interested in the minor tournaments or the early rounds. She just pitched up for the biggies perhaps like I would if I won millions and England happened to make to the world cup final of football. She's probably there now.

[Jan]

I haven't watched any either. No Eurosport. Radio commentary for me!
It obviously needs some work on the format, from all sorts of sources. Players seem keen.
However it's not DC in my eyes. Maybe they should retire the DC trophy and make it something completely different.

[cazza99]

Am I the only one who hasn't even watched it? I don't have Prime since Antwerp week and decided against it.


It is on Eurosport not Prime. However for those with Prime one can access Eurosport from there.

[Sallydaisy]

It is on Eurosport not Prime. However for those with Prime one can access Eurosport from there.

I found it easily via Prime.

[Hawkeye]

Serbia and France have received the wild cards for next year’s finals. Unlike last year, they haven’t said why, simply that they were chosen by the committee.

[Sallydaisy]

Serbia and France have received the wild cards for next year’s finals. Unlike last year, they haven’t said why, simply that they were chosen by the committee.

Under the Davis Cup original format all teams had to play to EARN their place in the World Group and then the knockout rounds to the QF, SF and Final. It made the DC seem like a 5th Grand Slam. And it provided focus for all the 200+ nations involved to strive to come up through the world division stages to try and win - as GBR and countless other countries managed to do.

This 'committee' decision making, which is not transparently done, is one of the key features of the PIQUE CUP that I dislike very much. Amongst other things I dislike about completely dismantling the organisation of the original Davis Cup competition. And it simply makes the Pique Cup another tournament albeit combining the singles/doubles events to give 'country' interest to try to draw in fans.

Discussion of it being held in September (to try and incorporate the new Laver Cup) is daft. That's a key time in the ATP season and, after this week, there could be a few players who wouldn't want to commit at that time of year and jeopardise their ranking potential.

It's a mess on all levels and likely to get worse if there's a chance everything gets rolled up into one event which combines the ATP Tour Final (November in China), Laver Cup (September in Boston) and the new ATP Team Cup (Australia in January) - as is already being mooted.

[Jan]

It does grate rather to know that the winners this afternoon will get the fabulous DC trophy. By all means give them a splendid trophy, just not this one.

[Teresa]

It isn’t Davis Cup. It’s as simple as that. It’s the Pique Cup. All that history thrown away. Makes me very sad and very angry.

[Rosalind]

Serbia and France have received the wild cards for next year’s finals. Unlike last year, they haven’t said why, simply that they were chosen by the committee.

Serbia because of Novak (ie a big money puller in and it looks good to have him) and France as they were so stubborn about liking it so are not really on board, but are an important money bringer inner as a big rich country. Or am I being cynical ?

[lovetennis]

Serbia because of Novak (ie a big money puller in and it looks good to have him) and France as they were so stubborn about liking it so are not really on board, but are an important money bringer inner as a big rich country. Or am I being cynical ?

Well if you are, I'm equally cynical because that's exactly how I saw it too...with the added reason that France is a near neighbour of the host nation so the organisers will be hoping people will gradually come on board.

The sporting aspect has been overtaken by the big business aspect, although if they don't improve the attendance figures they'll have to do something about it

[Rosalind]

I am obviously biased but, was the general consensus from the big wide world that it was a success? The tennis (that I heard about and from comments I saw on twitter) seemed exciting [but of course it often is and that's down to the skill of the players]. There were certainly crowds for Spain and we obviously pulled out the stops re the free tickets etc. I heard the French national anthem - sounded like there were about 10 people rattling around in a cathedral. The Americans were whinging on twitter because their matches with Canada should have been a huge attraction as neighbours but in Madrid - no good.

I am so annoyed with journalists saying "it had to change" like demented parrots, that I haven't investigated as yet. I do know the organisers say such late nights and early starts "may need to change". Quick aren't they!

[banskogirl]

The Americans were whinging on twitter because their matches with Canada should have been a huge attraction as neighbours but in Madrid - no good.


Not sure I would call it 'whinging' when that is the actual point.........

[Sallydaisy]

From Twitter ref sell out at the Pique Cup


Chris Clarey
Davis Cup final between Spain & Canada is reported as a sellout today. If I'm not mistaken, that makes for three sellouts this week: Both of Spain's group matches & the final.

Sallydaisy
Well, there's a surprise. ;-)

Bob in Spain
(member on here who was one of the lucky 900 able to get a free ticket yesterday)
The true success of this new format will not be known, until Spain get knocked out in the early stages. Then we will see if it actually works at the venue. Personally, I have my doubts.

[Rosalind]

Not sure I would call it 'whinging' when that is the actual point.........

you are right!

[Sallydaisy]

Comment from Jon Wertheim

Jon Wertheim@jon_wertheim (https://twitter.com/jon_wertheim)6m (https://twitter.com/jon_wertheim/status/1198637405277999104)
Lots of you asking about@DavisCupFinals (https://twitter.com/DavisCupFinals) ....my take (full disclosure, from afar):
The players have bought in - which was the biggest hurdle.
Lots to discuss in the organizer’s postmortem.
But overall, a lot of positives. If this were a stock, it would carry a buy rating.

And without speaking ill of the departed… Let us not forget the flaws of the previous @daviscup (https://twitter.com/DavisCup)
model


Not all the players have 'bought in' ... and will those that did continue to do so after this week and the realities of the event sink in. Especially if it moves to Indian Wells (majority of teams involved are Europe based) or an earlier time in the Calendar.

[Sallydaisy]

Copying this in here as it's relevant.
https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/pique-push-september-davis-cup-154122168.html?guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ 2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAHi1gG5pB09xfK7b8z1cfg9ayQWS ebTf21LeXUAR0AB78dFvv7pbkhh2Rh8B9yoSDnNLAM5srSNpwl wZ75CUi7Dw9IBATy-acYADV8MeQ71MaP7Jtq7C3EYJnWHhgkTJ6e3Fm08V7pRKOI_7T yb47_TxG3pyGW3M3jCa8gtmIkKD&_guc_consent_skip=1574614968

[Jane]

Snap, Sally - I put it in Andy's Newspaper and Internet thread, which is perhaps the wrong place :)

[cazza99]

Snap, Sally - I put it in Andy's Newspaper and Internet thread, which is perhaps the wrong place :)

Often OK to double post in these instances. Some people like to skim read the newspaper threads without having to go on other threads.

[jagmad]

It isn’t Davis Cup. It’s as simple as that. It’s the Pique Cup. All that history thrown away. Makes me very sad and very angry.

Trust me as this week becomes history it will be written into the books eventually that Pique bought and paid for Spain's
2019 Davis cup which won't really be fair on Raffa as he has played brilliantly. (but then again he did buy in to it, no reservations)
The same will be true for any other country who holds this trophy aloft while it's this condensed format.
The teams that won it before, even those that have repeat wins will say "it's OK but it ain't like before and that's the shame."
"But it is what it is and we're stuck with it now."
And we'll be screaming "No you could change it back closer to it's original format."
But we might as well scream it into a pillow, cos we won't be heard for all the money.

We're sorry Mr Davis we did try. Just send us something from above to help us put this right please.

[Rosalind]

Copying this in here as it's relevant.
https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/pique-push-september-davis-cup-154122168.html?guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ 2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAHi1gG5pB09xfK7b8z1cfg9ayQWS ebTf21LeXUAR0AB78dFvv7pbkhh2Rh8B9yoSDnNLAM5srSNpwl wZ75CUi7Dw9IBATy-acYADV8MeQ71MaP7Jtq7C3EYJnWHhgkTJ6e3Fm08V7pRKOI_7T yb47_TxG3pyGW3M3jCa8gtmIkKD&_guc_consent_skip=1574614968

Wish Federer would wade in and deal with this football oik. I will forgive him everything if he can use his status to help.