View Full Version : Davis Cup - NEW FORMAT discussion
Radical change to the format of the World Group proposed by the ITF
https://www.daviscup.com/en/news/281841.aspx
The ITF today announced plans for a 25-year, $3 billion partnership with investment group Kosmos that will transform Davis Cup by BNP Paribas and generate substantial revenues for global tennis development.
The ITF Board of Directors unanimously endorsed a proposal to create a major new annual season-ending World Cup of Tennis Finals that will crown the Davis Cup champions. Featuring 18 nations and played over one week in a world-class location in November, the event will be staged by Kosmos in partnership with the ITF.
Gerard Pique, the Spain and FC Barcelona football star, is the founder and President of Kosmos. The group is backed by Hiroshi Mikitani, the Chairman and CEO of Rakuten, the Tokyo-based e-commerce company.
The investment from Kosmos will include significant increases in prize money for players and ITF member nations, and the funding of grass roots projects and other tennis development programmes.
The proposal is subject to further development, and the successful completion of due diligence and finalisation of a formal agreement.
ITF President David Haggerty said: “This is a complete game-changer for the ITF and for tennis. Our Board has supported a bold and ambitious plan for the future of Davis Cup by BNP Paribas, one of the sport’s most cherished and important events and a key cornerstone in our ITF2024 strategy.
“Our vision is to create a major season-ending finale that will be a festival of tennis and entertainment, featuring the world’s greatest players representing their nations to decide the Davis Cup champions.
“This new partnership will not only create a true World Cup of Tennis, but will also unlock record levels of new investment for future generations of tennis players and fans around the world.”
Several world-class cities have already expressed interest in hosting the new event, and the ITF and Kosmos will continue discussions with a view to launching the Finals in 2019.
The plans will be submitted to the ITF Annual General Meeting, to be held in August in Orlando, Florida. A two-thirds majority will be required for final approval.
Gerard Pique said: “Kosmos is thrilled to join in this exciting partnership with the ITF. Together we can elevate Davis Cup by BNP Paribas to new heights by putting on a must-see World Cup of Tennis Finals featuring the top nations and top players. Kosmos will also invest $3 billion over 25 years into tennis that will help develop the game worldwide.”
Under the plans, the World Cup of Tennis Finals will be played over seven days in November in the traditional week of the Davis Cup Final. The Finals will feature a round-robin format followed by a quarterfinal knockout stage. Each tie will consist of two singles and one doubles over best-of-three sets. The 16 World Group nations will automatically qualify for the Finals, and a further two nations will be selected.
There will also be a play-off round held during the Finals which will include the eight nations that qualify from the Zone Group I events. The eight play-off winners will earn a place in the following year’s Finals.
There will be no change to the format of zone group competition. In Zone Groups I and II, home-and-away ties will continue to be played during the traditional three weeks in the calendar. Zone Groups III and IV will continue to consist of week-long round-robin events.
Further details will be announced in due course.
roytennisfan
26-02-2018, 14:18
Read it all myself, sounds awful, bye bye DC
Sallydaisy
26-02-2018, 14:28
SUMMARY OF CHANGES - from David Law on Twitter:
Great move by the ITF by the looks of things to turn the Davis Cup
into a proper World Cup of tennis with a one-week, season-ending event.
Huge $3 billion, 25-year investment in conjunction with footballer Gerard Pique. 1
8 countries. Round-Robin. Got to be good news.
More on the new Davis Cup proposals.
All matches 3 rubbers. 2 singles, 1 doubles.
All best-of-3. They hope to start it all in 2019.
Definite game-changer and what the competition has been crying out for IMO.
Subject to final approval in August. Not confirmed yet.
David Law @DavidLawTennis (https://twitter.com/DavidLawTennis)
Sallydaisy
26-02-2018, 14:29
Thank goodness for the last 35 years of DC watching pleasure - going forward it just will not be the same.
:sad:
Just sounds awful ...Also will first finals be in Tokyo where the backers are by any chance?
Sallydaisy
26-02-2018, 14:40
Tweets from Carole Bouchard :-
https://twitter.com/carole_bouchard
Kinda floored by that ITF announcement ! I thought this world cup of tennis was the project of the ATP.
I obviously missed something along the way.
But, those World Cup of Tennis Finals will kinda collide into the ATP Finals in November, no ?
This whole thing is gonna be fascinating to follow...o_O
There will also be a play-off for Group I during those Finals. Added to the 16 teams already there playing for the title.
That venue is gonna need to be massive.
It says it'll be at the same week that now hosts the DC final.
Issue is now you get 16 teams concerned and not two... Locations are gonna be crucial.
So it's a victory of the players regarding that Davis Cup overhaul.
The only thing they didn't get is to see it played every two years.
But for the rest, they're now free from the ties all season long.
Nobody believed me when I kept saying Davis Cup as we know it was over those past couple of years.
Too many angry players, too many schedule issues. Well, look at this now...
It needed changes, tbh... And it was always gonna be brutal. Top players don't wanna play it four times
a year anymore. And it won't survive without them.
And Steven ...
Terrible news. Other big tennis events are remote from the fans, it's rare to get the chance to see home players at home (far worse in some countries than in the UK), so please don't destroy what makes Davis Cup special
Sallydaisy
26-02-2018, 14:55
Just to clarify and taking the last paragraph from Jimmys' post:
There will be no change to the format of zone group competition. In Zone Groups I and II, home-and-away ties will continue to be played during the traditional three weeks in the calendar. Zone Groups III and IV will continue to consist of week-long round-robin events.
So, the new format is for THE WORLD GROUP ONLY.
Instead of 4 tie weekends per year - R1, QF, SF and Final - the teams making it to the World Group
will meet just ONCE in a neutral venue to play for the Davis Cup title in November, same weekend
as now i.e. AFTER the World Tour Final. That 'event' also involves teams playing off to stay in or
join the World Group for the following year.
For fans it means only 1 chance per year to see your World Group team in action instead of potentially 4 chances.
And there is NO arena that can replace the footfall, even spread over a week, that can offer the same total ticket
capacity as 8 events, across the world, over 3 or 4 weekends.
It takes Davis Cup AWAY from the fans ... who buy the tickets ... and pay to travel the world ...
... but it's OK because the rich top players get more money and so do the sponsors.
:rolleyes:
JAMES4578
26-02-2018, 14:59
Here was I hoping radical change was of the agenda meantime, semis/final in one venue was bad enough and now proposed it's all done in a week! Know there were issues to be addressed but certainly don't think this is the answer. Know players interests not always the same as the fans but DC history will just be swept aside if this gets the green light, will be in my view a completely different competition! one of the main attractions was home and away ties and so less chance to see your favourites. Not a done deal yet though!
hfwardhouse
26-02-2018, 15:02
:crying: :crying:
Devastating news. Davis Cup was utterly brilliant as it was. I realise something had to be done but not this, this just destroys it for the fans. So sad.
Very sad. Ticket prices will be through the roof for a week. It’s going to lose everything that makes it great. It will bec9me just another tournament. Only consolation is I can’t imagine AM playing much in the future, regardless of the format. Thank goodness we had 2015.
I still think they should have changed it to biannually, avoiding Olympic Years.
I am off in a fit of Pique.
RosieBear
26-02-2018, 16:27
Truly horrendous proposal which will completely kill off Davis Cup as 'the people's tennis'. It will be unbelievably disappointing if these change are made, and fear they are inevitable.:sad::sad::sad:
Words fail me :grrr::grrr:
RosieBear
26-02-2018, 16:59
The more I think about this the more betrayed I feel. First and foremost it is the fans who have made DC what it is, yet they have been entirely overlooked in these proposals. What percentage of fans can consistenly travel far afield? Not knowing how many days for??? Potentially having to scrabble for latter stage tickets in an unfamiliar country?? That's before we get to the probabilty that the venue will be neutral for finalists so destroying the incredible atmosphere. Nothing but CONS, CONS, CONS for the fans and can't see a single pro. Absolutely freakin' appalling :furious::furious::furious::furious:
Rosalind
26-02-2018, 17:20
I feel the same and would only repeat what others have said. It was truly a wonderful tournament for the fans - not just us but the other nations too.
money money money talks. Thank goodness we had our Final and our moment with Andy.
Hey, we may be demoted and not have to worry too much...... :crying:
lovetennis
26-02-2018, 17:30
First reaction is "gutted". Not a good option for the fans at all. It's inevitably a neutral venue for most which will mean a largely neutral crowd. So not Davis Cup in my book. They may be calling it that but it won't look or feel like it to me. So sad we won't have those fabulous weekends of supporting Team GB. I am also not convinced that top players will get involved as it will be a whole week commitment straight after the WTF finals. Will need to ponder more over it but my initial reaction is I hate it
lovetennis
26-02-2018, 17:31
Almost hoping we get relegated - never thought I'd say that!
So, so sad to see the demise of the Davis Cup as we know it. :crying::crying: It will be interesting to hear what the top players have to say about it.
"If it ain't broke, you don't need to fix it" that's what everyone says. I always look forward to go somewhere in the Davis Cup and cheer on the team. I don't know who came up with the new format rubbish, but I don't like it. How many of us can afford to go to Japan?
lovetennis
26-02-2018, 19:12
Here's something I don't get about the proposals...one of the arguments for changing the format is that the top players don't participate enough. Well I don't see how the proposed format will change that..
The proposed date is the current DC final week in Nov...so that's the week after the ATP WTF event when all the players are shattered at the end of the season, injury burdened and it effectively lengthens the season by a week for 18 teams of players
The ITF implies that prize money will incentivise players to get involved. Well okay up to a certain level that may be true, but the very top players are hardly short of a bob or two are they. I doubt offering those top names some $$$$ will make them play, unless they genuinely wanted/were physically able to anyway
Sallydaisy
26-02-2018, 19:37
With regards to the 'big names' not playing ... my theory is that most of them stop once they have WON the Davis Cup.
i.e. once it is on their tennis CV. Been there, done it, played for my country etc etc.
e.g.
Swiss won 2014, Fedex & Wawa played WGPO in Sept 2015 and neither have played since.
Spain won 2011, Nadal has played 3 WGPO ties only since. Probably to keep Spain in the WG.
Injuries? Yes. And I think being 'available' to play DC became a qualifier for entering the Olympics.
Djokovic has done a bit better.
Serbia won 2010.
2012 he didn't play 2 ties.
2013 it looked as though Serbia could do it again and he played all 4 rounds but they lost to Czech.
Since when ...
2014 didn't play, 2015 R1 only, 2016 R1 only, 2017 R1 and QF, 2018 did not play R1.
GB won 2015. Since when ...
2016 Murray played R1, not the QF but played the SF (we lost to Argentina).
2017 Murray didn't play 2 ties.
2018 Murray didn't play (injury)
This is not a criticism of Andy, I'm just illustrating a point.
WimbledonWestie
26-02-2018, 19:37
Hating the sound of these proposals. On a personal level it pretty much makes it impossible for me to attend as I can only go Saturdays and Sundays - and even that is restricted by my being able to travel Friday and Sunday evening.
Totally kills off the atmosphere of home and away fans. Denies local tennis associations the revenue from home ties. For many players it's their only opportunity to play in home country- and for their home fans to see them. Even the current format leaves players whose team has made final wary on the tour finals participation- remember Andy talked of not playing. I feel this is just asking for discord between ATP and ITF both of whom will want to protect their showcase event and have the best players available. Players will be caught in the middle. Would love to know what ATP think of plans.
I'm so, so glad GB won the "proper" Davis Cup (and still have to pinch myself to make sure I didn't dream it!)
:GBflag:
lovetennis
26-02-2018, 19:49
With regards to the 'big names' not playing ... my theory is that most of them stop once they have WON the Davis Cup.
i.e. once it is on their tennis CV. Been there, done it, played for my country etc etc.
e.g.
Swiss won 2014, Fedex & Wawa played WGPO in Sept 2015 and neither have played since.
Spain won 2011, Nadal has played 3 WGPO ties only since. Probably to keep Spain in the WG.
Injuries? Yes. And I think being 'available' to play DC became a qualifier for entering the Olympics.
Djokovic has done a bit better.
Serbia won 2010.
2012 he didn't play 2 ties.
2013 it looked as though Serbia could do it again and he played all 4 rounds but they lost to Czech.
Since when ...
2014 didn't play, 2015 R1 only, 2016 R1 only, 2017 R1 and QF, 2018 did not play R1.
GB won 2015. Since when ...
2016 Murray played R1, not the QF but played the SF (we lost to Argentina).
2017 Murray didn't play 2 ties.
2018 Murray didn't play (injury)
This is not a criticism of Andy, I'm just illustrating a point.
I think you're probably right Sally. I always thought Fed wouldn't play DC again after Switzerland won, and I was nearly right but for that one play-off . Heck he even gave up a WTF final to save himself for the following week's DC Final, just to get DC onto his CV. And I very much doubt the new proposals will change any of that
WimbledonWestie
26-02-2018, 19:55
Also, having ties on weekends made it more accessible for folk who couldn't make ties to watch. Now the majority will be during the working week so very restricted viewing. And reading plan is to hold it outdoors- can't be any imminent plans to hold it in Europe then.
Oh I'm so mad! I should get the ironing board out, I'd fly through the load in a temper fuelled fit! -
roytennisfan
26-02-2018, 20:38
Here's something I don't get about the proposals...one of the arguments for changing the format is that the top players don't participate enough. Well I don't see how the proposed format will change that..
The proposed date is the current DC final week in Nov...so that's the week after the ATP WTF event when all the players are shattered at the end of the season, injury burdened and it effectively lengthens the season by a week for 18 teams of players
The ITF implies that prize money will incentivise players to get involved. Well okay up to a certain level that may be true, but the very top players are hardly short of a bob or two are they. I doubt offering those top names some $$$$ will make them play, unless they genuinely wanted/were physically able to anyway
It will actually be 26 because they are going to do the promotion/relegation ties all included in the 7 days, group matches, quarters semis and final and 8 promotion/relegation ties. How many courts will they need, how many suitable venues will there be available in November with enough courts and if they play it the same week, will it really start on the Monday, the day after the ATP finals, has anyone even thought through the implications of this? Sounds like as much thought gone into it as for a summer world cup in Qatar.
Sallydaisy
26-02-2018, 20:48
It will need to be at a site that has hosted a major tennis event e.g. the Olympics or Grand Slam or Masters (for there to be multiple courts) and be indoors/possible outdoors in November.
Shanghai ?
Oh dear! Didn't expect this when I signed in to catch up with the posts. My feelings match most on here...my main one being overriding sadness and regret that we may no longer experience those magical wonderful DC weekends again. It feels like someone stole a very precious and treasured item from right under your nose. There are a few things I would like to know. Firstly, I would like to know the views from the top players. I would love to know what Andy might be saying about it right now. There will be increased prize money, but will there be ranking points? I would also like to know what the definition of a "world-class city" is?? That could be many things to many people. Haggerty talked about this being a "complete game-changer", game-changer for whom? Certainly not the fans. It smacks of big companies with big ideas who want to cash in and make a name for themselves at the cost of a cherished and unique tradition. Game-changer my foot! Yes, change is needed, but THIS change? I don't think so.
Can anyone else hear that?
Mr. Dwight F. Davis Turning in his grave.
Get's coat and walks out the door to the last post.
R.I.P.
:getcoat::facepalm::crying:
lovetennis
26-02-2018, 20:53
I wondered about the ranking points too Pat. There didn't seem to be any mention of that in the statement from the ITF. And what the %&*$ does Gerard Pique know about tennis? It's all about the money
Maybe they will not get their two thirds majority at the AGM in August??? :shrug:
lovetennis
26-02-2018, 21:00
Maybe they will not get their two thirds majority at the AGM in August??? :shrug:
We can only hope so. Who are the people on the ITF Board? Hope they are listening to fans. People on Twitter seems hugely opposed
roytennisfan
26-02-2018, 21:05
It will need to be at a site that has hosted a major tennis event e.g. the Olympics or Grand Slam or Masters (for there to be multiple courts) and be indoors/possible outdoors in November.
Shanghai ?
Paris?
WimbledonWestie
26-02-2018, 21:11
It will actually be 26 because they are going to do the promotion/relegation ties all included in the 7 days, group matches, quarters semis and final and 8 promotion/relegation ties. How many courts will they need, how many suitable venues will there be available in November with enough courts and if they play it the same week, will it really start on the Monday, the day after the ATP finals, has anyone even thought through the implications of this? Sounds like as much thought gone into it as for a summer world cup in Qatar.
Chris Clarey (US journalist) saying on twitter it's intended to be an outdoor event ..... there'll be a lot of them the size needed in Europe.... NOT!
Sallydaisy
26-02-2018, 21:12
Paris?
If you mean at Bercy indoors then no, it has only one show court and 2 others best described as school sports hall. Roland Garros in November?
Others I've seen mentioned are Tokyo, Miami, Dubai, Beijing and Melbourne.
It could be 90-100 matches in a week ... 13/14 matches per day ... that needs a lot of court space.
WimbledonWestie
26-02-2018, 21:16
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/tennis/2018/02/26/davis-cup-set-revolution-introduction-18-team-world-cup-tennis/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
According to this Singapore looks likely
Rosalind
26-02-2018, 23:03
It looks like no-one has done the logistics before the decision is made if all these courts outdoors in November are going to be needed. That sort of rules out Europe and much of the US. And if top players are injured at the end of the year, they're injured and can't play and that's that. As for these 'world-class cities' - what does that mean?! the lovely Ghent and Rouen not to mention Glasgow (all too cold anyway of course) I'm guessing wouldn't make their glitzy criteria (to name just a few). we should do what we can by tweeting etc etc. Maybe it will never happen.
First reaction is "gutted". Not a good option for the fans at all. It's inevitably a neutral venue for most which will mean a largely neutral crowd. So not Davis Cup in my book. They may be calling it that but it won't look or feel like it to me. So sad we won't have those fabulous weekends of supporting Team GB. I am also not convinced that top players will get involved as it will be a whole week commitment straight after the WTF finals. Will need to ponder more over it but my initial reaction is I hate it
I hate it as well. If the top players are offered enough appearance money they most likely will wish to get involved.
There seems to have been no consideration for either the fans who made the DC what it was or the players who will have another event on top of the WTFs when they are exhausted and possibly carrying injuries after a busy year.
DC ties are usually very well supported far more than the regular tournaments around the world so why is it necessary to change the format so drastically. :grrr:
roytennisfan
27-02-2018, 12:35
If you mean at Bercy indoors then no, it has only one show court and 2 others best described as school sports hall. Roland Garros in November?
Others I've seen mentioned are Tokyo, Miami, Dubai, Beijing and Melbourne.
It could be 90-100 matches in a week ... 13/14 matches per day ... that needs a lot of court space.
Also Singapore mentioned, though funding from Japan could make that Favourite.
So basically all a long way from Europe for us and the vast majority of the top teams/players. If it's to start the day after the ATP Finals then they could co-locate that at some time in the future. It gets even worse the more you think about it
Edit 2 group games each means 18 + 4 + 2 +1 + 8 = 33 over 7 days so 2 or 3 courts will be enough
Sallydaisy
27-02-2018, 12:49
If it's to start the day after the ATP Finals then they could co-locate that at some time in the future.
The ATP Tour Final location is very likely up for grabs once the current deal ends and there's no doubt in my mind that it'll be moved nearer to, or in the same location, as the new Davis Cup Final. Here's betting ticket prices will be hoicked for both events taking them further away from proper tennis fans. Whoever is watching won't be seeing the top players no matter how much more money they're offered.
My beloved Davis Cup :crying::crying::crying::angry::angry:
These new proposals absolutely stink! I will be devastated if they are passed. DC has always been my favourite tennis to see live and the only time us fans can really get together as a big group. Agree with what everyone has said.
It is set to become just like another tennis event, week long, one venue. No thought for the fans as everyone has already said. The players have said they want the DC format changed but do they really want this?! I think it's unlikely. The crowds at DC help make it special for the players, how many times do we hear that?! But they should have been careful what they wished for, if these proposals are passed, that special atmosphere will be gone for good. And I agree with others, I don't think it will make the top players play ... and quite frankly (this is going to sound radical) if they don't want to play, all fool them, it's up to them. They will maybe wished they had while they had the chance because it ain't gonna be the same that's for sure! I have been to enough ties in my 19 years of going to DC where there have been no top players and it's still been an incredible atmosphere .... Coventry anyone?? I don't mean to blame the top players but they carry a lot of weight clearly and if they want this, I think they're mad!!
I have been a late comer to DC, and my interest has been very much AM, so in many ways I am not in a position to comment. However I truly feel that those of you who have supported DC since the year dot have been sold down the river. It’s an appalling way to treat the fans.
The new competition won’t be DC in any shape or form. It will be something masquerading as DC. It will bear as much resemblance to traditional DC as a First World War biplane does to a modern stealth fighter. DC will die on the 31st December this year.
No wonder people are angry.
themass15
27-02-2018, 15:53
I too have had 19 years of attending DC. Like Caro above, I started with tie against the USA at the NIA in 1999. All we will have now is fond memories.
RosieBear
27-02-2018, 16:04
My beloved Davis Cup :crying::crying::crying::angry::angry:
These new proposals absolutely stink! I will be devastated if they are passed. DC has always been my favourite tennis to see live and the only time us fans can really get together as a big group.
So true, Caro :sad: But whatever the ridiculous ITF clowns decide in August, and I fear the worst, we won't stop spending Davis Cup together as a group. That would be the last straw. To paraphrase Braveheart, they can take our Davis Cup weekends but they can never take our friendshiiiiipppppps!!!!!! Getting together in this country won't be the same, but better than not seeing each other at all :grouphug:
roytennisfan
27-02-2018, 17:40
Need a lot more players to speak out like this ...but even if they do, European nations could well be outvoted by others desperate for the money on offer
Lucas Pouille has described the proposed changes announced by the ITF as a “death sentence” to the Davis Cup, the Frenchman told reporters in Dubai on Tuesday following his opening round win over Ernests Gulbis.
Does anyone else get the feeling that this a case of:
How do we put 25p on a litre of fuel without an uprising Mr chancellor?
Easy we bung it up by 50p then when they've all done shouting we give in and drop it down to 25p!
The home/away feature with the home side picking the venue/surface, along with it being held at weekends,
with hoards of real fans shouting themselves horse is DC. IMHO.
The fact that a lot of countries/towns (ie Marbella recently) will miss out on an influx of revenue due to uncertain outcomes. (depends on wins/draws and home/away turns)
It won't change the outcome a great deal. As the said revenue will end up in the same pockets as all the other tourny's. That's the slice of pie they're after.
My main fear is that if they don't listen to the fans and don't rein it back. Based on the premise of Build it and they will come!
Then they will never have the grace to admit failure and put it right.
No I am afraid now is the time for action not venting spleens. However much it might feel better.
Write, tweet, message, all the players no shouting just a quite storm of fans all singing from the same hymn sheet.
Please don't mess DC up.
Somethings are more important than money.
If they can leave the format for the other groups alone. Then why not the worlds? No I would say it ain't broke. So don't fix it.
Leave our beloved DC format alone.
There must be some top brass who will listen surely??
Get all the forums to petition the LTA and ITF point them in the direction of these discussions.
We're not just talking GB all the other countries fans must feel the same?
Just inundate them with the truth, and that includes the players......
Rosalind
27-02-2018, 19:06
I agree! I have been tweeting throughout the day and will continue to do so. I have seen comments from German and Belgians on twitter with similar thoughts to L Pouille. I think I saw similar from Australian. Sorry that I can't monitor all day and post links on here.
It is no good us preaching to the converted (each other) - message whoever you can to get the word out. Many are already doing so. :grouphug:
The playoffs in September could be quite amusing, with all the teams playing to lose!
I suspect that they've given us the worst case scenario, so that when we find out what's really happening we'll be grateful rather than angry!
JAMES4578
27-02-2018, 19:32
Certainly good to see a few negative voices emerging but Nadal seems very much in favour and other players will have similar views http://sport.bt.com/tennis/proposed-davis-cup-changes-receive-mixed-reaction-within-tennis-world-S11364254641794, both Andy and Djokovic were said to be supportive of an event like this (though was initially intended to be separate from Davis Cup) last May. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/tennis/2017/05/12/gerard-piques-davis-cup-revolution-backed-andy-murray-rafael/
The playoffs in September could be quite amusing, with all the teams playing to lose!
I suspect that they've given us the worst case scenario, so that when we find out what's really happening we'll be grateful rather than angry!
That's what I said diddle I?
The way I see it is:
If some other country threw it's hat into the ring and said...
We're holding a tennis tournament the same week as Wimby but with 10 times the prize money.
London/LTA would be lobbying to stop it happening, but because nobody knows which countries
and towns would benefit financially from each round there seems to be no losers, but there is.
Just in the time I have been going to DC (which isn't long) and only GB ties.
Scotland twice, Belgium, France, Spain, England. That's just the ties I could make.
And as long as they stay in the worlds their country loses revenue.
So are we going to end up with a premier division and a lower league 1 like football.
Heaven forbid.
lovetennis
27-02-2018, 21:02
I too have had 19 years of attending DC. Like Caro above, I started with tie against the USA at the NIA in 1999. All we will have now is fond memories.
That was my first one too. Happy days. Can't express how much I'll miss it if we lose it :crying::crying:
Rosalind
27-02-2018, 22:42
It doesn't matter much what the players think - they have a limited shelf life. Nadal isn't likely to be playing for many more years. I thought Andy said before that he didn't like the idea of a neutral location. If he is in favour of this he's not likely to play in Scotland ever again apart from the charity event.
There's a petition against the changes, worth a try
https://www.change.org/p/international-tennis-federation-don-t-change-the-wonderful-davis-cup-ne-changez-pas-la-merveilleuse-coupe-davis
lovetennis
28-02-2018, 13:22
I signed it. I am not really familiar with the ITF'S governance. Presumably there are reps from different countries on the board and if so our rep/s must be from the LTA? Given the efforts the LTA has gone to in marketing BTM Team membership, I hope they are unhappy with the proposals which hardly lend themselves to fans being able to attend DC easily
BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/43202373) - Davis Cup: ITF plans to introduce 18-team World Cup of Tennis Finals in revamp
A two-thirds majority at the ITF annual general meeting will be required for final approval of the proposals.
That meeting is scheduled to take place in Orlando in August.
Great Britain Davis Cup captain Leon Smith
There's still a long way to go as it requires approval at the ITF annual general meeting, but we're still passionate about the Davis Cup and I, like everyone else, realise that changes need to be made to ensure longevity and status of the competition.
Of course, one of the first things that came to mind is the loss of the home and away tie. It works in other sports but remains to be seen if it could work in Davis Cup.
However, I do think it's really positive that the ITF is looking at significant investment from other sources to secure the future of the competition.
For now we'll just have to keep an open mind as we start to learn more about this proposed new structure and whatever the outcome, I hope the Davis Cup remains the most important team event in world tennis.
BBC tennis correspondent Russell Fuller
World Group home and away ties, played on a variety of surfaces, will be sorely missed by many fans (and some players) - but something needs to change if the Davis Cup is to remain a relevant, global sporting event.
In fact, the Davis Cup - at elite level - will never be the same again if the ITF's member nations endorse the plan in August. It should not be forgotten, though, that less radical reforms failed to attract the necessary two-thirds majority when put to a vote last summer.
This time, though, there is a serious amount of money on the table, which will benefit both players and the grassroots.
Then there is the involvement of Gerard Pique, who spoke to the ATP about setting up a similar event at the start of each year. This could turn out to be quite a coup for the ITF as Andy Murray, Rafael Nadal and Novak Djokovic all spoke very positively about his potential involvement.
As for the women's Fed Cup competition, the ITF's first priority is to establish a 16-team World Group (instead of the existing two-tier structure) in time for 2019. If that proves successful, there is the potential in future for the Fed Cup to be organised along similar lines to this proposed new World Cup.
I too have had 19 years of attending DC. Like Caro above, I started with tie against the USA at the NIA in 1999. All we will have now is fond memories.
That was my first one too. Happy days. Can't express how much I'll miss it if we lose it :crying::crying:
It was certainly a brilliant introduction to DC. I went on my own for the first 2 days and my hubby and his friend came on the last day. We were in the front row and the atmosphere was absolutely incredible! I was hooked, and haven't missed a home tie since, I have seen them all live.
I saw the BATS flag that weekend in Birmingham and decided to join as I didn't know anyone who was as mad about tennis as me and who would go to DC for 3 days. Most BATS supporters were a lot older than me and nowhere near as loud ... so I was delighted when I finally met people on here who were prepared to stand up and be heard!
Really, really hoping this will not turn out the way it's described ... and if it does, RB is right, we should get together anyway!
Rosalind
28-02-2018, 15:52
I signed it. I am not really familiar with the ITF'S governance. Presumably there are reps from different countries on the board and if so our rep/s must be from the LTA? Given the efforts the LTA has gone to in marketing BTM Team membership, I hope they are unhappy with the proposals which hardly lend themselves to fans being able to attend DC easily
I'm not sure of how the voting works. Anyone out there who does?
There is hardly anyone happy with this idea - apart from Nadal and David Law. The DC is bigger than any one player imo.
Andy and Novak have reacted positively.
http://www.news.com.au/sport/tennis/tennis-world-split-over-new-davis-cup-proposal/news-story/be2418abdbb8a125e481474540b689f7
Sallydaisy
28-02-2018, 16:17
Andy and Novak have reacted positively.
http://www.news.com.au/sport/tennis/tennis-world-split-over-new-davis-cup-proposal/news-story/be2418abdbb8a125e481474540b689f7
... and Fed Cup will be following suit according to Haggerty.
More reaction - Mahut sounds really angry as do the other French players.
“The essence of this historic competition is to play away or at home,” Mahut, a member of France’s Davis Cup-winning team last year, told French newspaper L’Equipe.
“I was the first to say we needed to reform it. But not to destroy it.”
https://www.lequipe.fr/Tennis/Actualites/Pourquoi-nous-allons-regretter-le-format-actuel-de-la-coupe-davis/879630
http://www.news.com.au/sport/tennis/france-star-nicolas-mahut-outraged-over-tf-plans-to-revamp-davis-cup-with-world-cup-of-tennis/news-story/2a09d1d04d0439f2d208ef45e349a019
RosieBear
28-02-2018, 16:57
Andy and Novak have reacted positively.
http://www.news.com.au/sport/tennis/tennis-world-split-over-new-davis-cup-proposal/news-story/be2418abdbb8a125e481474540b689f7
That's disappointing, I'm afraid.
“We think the change we are making will make it so much more appealing and tangible to the top players,” David Haggerty, president of the International Tennis Federation, told The Associated Press on Monday.
Yep - by making it much less appealing and tangible to the fans.
Has one single person, player or executive, explicitly raised concerns over the impact the proposed changes will have on fans?? Not in broad terms of losing home/away ties but the concrete practical impact and cost to fans - as just one example, the hugely inflated accommodation and flight costs that they would inevitably incur through an inability to plan ahead?
Out of touch multi-millionaires kept happy and to heck with the fans :furious::furious::furious:
To be fair, we haven't actually heard what Andy and Novak have said about it yet.
RosieBear
28-02-2018, 17:29
To be fair, we haven't actually heard what Andy and Novak have said about it yet.
We've known since May that Andy and Novak support Pique and his radical change to 'World Cup of Tennis'. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/tennis/2017/05/12/gerard-piques-davis-cup-revolution-backed-andy-murray-rafael/
RoastLamb
28-02-2018, 18:26
This is what Sports Illustrated's Jon Wertheim has to say. (https://www.si.com/tennis/2018/02/28/mailbag-davis-cup-changes-proposal-eugenie-bouchard-settlement-details?utm_campaign=si-tennis&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&xid=socialflow_twitter_si) I can't cut and past the actual quote tho'.
“I was the first to say we needed to reform it. But not to destroy it.”...Quote from Mahut. (Thanks karanga!).
Best succinct response I've read yet.
lovetennis
28-02-2018, 20:11
Lleyton Hewitt, Amelie Mauresmo, Yannick Noah, Dani Vallverdu - more who have expressed their dismay at the proposals
Rosalind
28-02-2018, 20:29
And the man himself Federer . https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/sport/tennis/925101/Roger-Federer-Davis-Cup-Rafael-Nadal-Gerard-Pique-support/amp
Fingers crossed.
Note to all players, before you commit to something, listen to your fans first.
That's the real fans not the "Oh I went to watch tennis once because I have contacts and get free tickets." Type.
The real ones not the fair weather ones. "The only time I got tickets I was really lucky it was the first time Andy Murray won it,
think it was his first time? Has he won it twice or something? Anyway I never liked him till then now I'm a real fan of him.
How's he doing now anyway? Haven't heard much recently, maybe I've just been busy. Anyways gonna see if I can get free
corporate tickets again this year. See Ya"
https://www.express.co.uk/sport/tennis/924763/Rafael-Nadal-Gerard-Pique-Davis-Cup-plans
ANDY?
If you should by any chance ever read this:
Have another little think before you add your weight to this ignorance of the real fans.
I'm not saying there won't be gains. (For some) Or that some change isn't required, but the gains will never out weigh the losses for us REAL FANS
Or the smaller communities including ones closer to your home town, cos let's face it if this multi Billion $ fueled idea goes ahead no town near here will be holding the final.
Please just THINK
That's all we ask......
https://www.express.co.uk/sport/tennis/924763/Rafael-Nadal-Gerard-Pique-Davis-Cup-plans
RosieBear
01-03-2018, 08:52
Very, very well said Jags :bravo::thumbup::clap: Thanks for your eloquence - I'm too angry and disappointed to express myself well on this issue.
What gets to me is that tennis lovers are, for the most part, the most reasonable people you could deal with. We all know some reform had to come, and I think the vast majority pf fans would have accepted a change to best of 3. Of course it would still be the fans that took the hit b/c we all know ticket prices wouldn't have come down, but we would have said OK, so be it - this is a massive concession, imagine trying to tell a hardcore footie fan that the match was now 60 mins instead of 90 for the same price. Yeah good luck with that one. But our reasonableness isn't appreciated, it is used against us. If the movers and shakers behind these plans had shown *any* thought to the fans at all, even token mention, it would be easier to take but the word 'fans' hasn't passed anyones lips. There's a reason for that - there is not one positive to sell them. Every single one of these radical changes comes at the expense of the fans. It is disgusting.
Sallydaisy
01-03-2018, 09:27
"extract" from Jon Wertheims' article:
Anyway, yes, the big news this week: plans for “the transformation” of Davis Cup. (https://www.si.com/tennis/2018/02/26/davis-cup-overhaul-world-cup-of-tennis)
Before we explore the particulars, some credit is due to the International Tennis Federation. After years (decades?) of stubbornly refusing to change and (willfully) blinding themselves to the obvious signs that the Davis Cup was losing relevance and prestige—not least among the players themselves—the organization finally offered a sweeping alternative. Dave Haggerty, the new ITF head, all but promised this. And he appears to have delivered.
While this is a mere proposal and must be voted through in August—which is no given (https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/A3uOCERyRWsA0zx6UP5X4A?domain=reuters.com)—the fact that the ITF has acted with uncharacteristic conviction is, in and of itself, encouraging. Crassly, it's also encouraging that tennis can attract this kind of capital investment. More on the financials in a second.
The actual proposal for a one-week shoot-em-out can be picked apart under cross-examination.
Are the same players, who gripe—not wrongly—about tennis’ gruelling schedule demands, willing to converge on Singapore in November? (By the way, does it really make sense to go to Asia to debut an event like this when sport’s nerve center is Europe?)
Then again, given the demand for so many courts, where the heck DO you host this thing, especially that time of the year?
More questions….
Can you really fit an 18-team event featuring more than 100 players into a week?
Do you lose the essential, home-and-away flavor of Davis Cup, when, say, Canada plays Slovenia ….in Singapore? What does this do to the World Team Cup, which was supposed to be held in January and put to Board vote in late March? For that matter, what does this do to the Laver Cup?
Money, however, talks. And in this case it screams. Spearheaded by Barcelona football player Gerard Pique, a group is underwriting this event for, reportedly, $3 billion over 25 years. That’s money akin to starting a new Grand Slam.
That kind of money does a lot of things.
A) It induces players. Even tired, physically beat-up players.
B) It leaves money for marketing. Part of the Davis Cup’s current is that the fluid schedule makes it tough to promote. That won’t be the case with a date and location that won’t move.
C) Some of that money can fanned to federations, which get so much funding under the current model.
D) It makes ticket sales all but irrelevant.
Again, this is a proposal, not a done deal. And, again, this model—radical by any measure—is not without its flaws. But the old was so deeply flawed and outdated, rendering the event less relevant which each year, that it was “innovate or die.” Fortunately, finally, the ITF chose the former.
Rosalind
01-03-2018, 09:53
I wrote this elsewhere. It is still what I think after sleeping on it.
I keep hearing 'things have to change' with nothing that convinces me why. Which top player has not won the Davis Cup? They play to win and once they've won they slack off. Half the time they don't even turn up to watch when the tie is held in their own country. Many choose to live as tax exiles meanwhile we save and juggle lives to watch the DC. I would not go to Singapore to watch what could result in 3 matches of tennis because that's a ridiculous waste of money. The likes of Nadal will be playing for a few more years only and changing a 100 year old event to suit the likes of him doesn't impress me. I will never have time for any player who supports this change which benefits themselves but not their supporters who are tireless in their enthusiasm. Wow I hope this does not happen - am I having a bad dream ? :grouphug:
I wrote this elsewhere. It is still what I think after sleeping on it.
I keep hearing 'things have to change' with nothing that convinces me why. Which top player has not won the Davis Cup? They play to win and once they've won they slack off. Half the time they don't even turn up to watch when the tie is held in their own country. Many choose to live as tax exiles meanwhile we save and juggle lives to watch the DC. I would not go to Singapore to watch what could result in 3 matches of tennis because that's a ridiculous waste of money. The likes of Nadal will be playing for a few more years only and changing a 100 year old event to suit the likes of him doesn't impress me. I will never have time for any player who supports this change which benefits themselves but not their supporters who are tireless in their enthusiasm. Wow I hope this does not happen - am I having a bad dream ? :grouphug:
I for one agree with most of above, but I'm afraid the point they are trying to make is that it is stale as a format?
The reasons for this feeling and the need for change.... As written in an earlier post by SD...
Again, this is a proposal, not a done deal. And, again, this model—radical by any measure—is not without its flaws. But the old was so deeply flawed and outdated, rendering the event less relevant which each year, that it was “innovate or die.” Fortunately, finally, the ITF chose the former.
I fail to see the flaws from the fans perspective! I'd rather they made it no top players at all and kept the format the same.
Also you're right once the tick is in the box (DC check) the top players will not turn up anymore than before.
Unless it's to save face for voting this in. If they just want the money well they can get on with it. I won't be watching/going.
Begs the question, why did they remove the ranking points in the first place? If they wanted the top players there??
Anyway back to the being stale point.
Is it possible that the reason it's been so hard to change/improve in the past might be because it's hard to improve on near perfection.
I was always told quality never goes out of fashion.
This reminds me of the times you go to the supermarket and pick up your favorite, whatever, and it says on the box:
NEW IMPROVED FORMULA
when you try it you think they shouldn't have bothered and you just wish you could have the old one back...
Sigh ah well if it all goes down the pan, at least we had the good times.
Rosalind
01-03-2018, 20:15
Some stats from th DC web site on last year's attendance etc.
https://www.daviscup.com/en/news/277396.aspx
lovetennis
01-03-2018, 21:17
Some stats from th DC web site on last year's attendance etc.
https://www.daviscup.com/en/news/277396.aspx
So over half a million fans got to see a DC match in 2017. Can't see that happening under the proposed format :angry:
exislander
02-03-2018, 00:59
I am not sure I have anything really to add to what others have said already but want to express my sadness and disappointment at the proposed change to the current set up. I have only been attending DC in very recent years although previously watched if they were televised. I will forever be grateful that I was privileged to be present at some very memorable matches such as the unforgettable Ward v Isner in Glasgow, the amazing Final in Ghent and even the recent performance by Norrie in Marbella.The very special and unique quality of Davis Cup results from the home and away feature of the competition and surely that can never be recaptured in a distant neutral venue.
I never understood why ranking points for DC matches were removed from the system. Were ranking points not an attraction to entice the top players? I find it hard to believe that the proposed timing will attract the top players following immediately after the World Tour Finals at the end of a long tiring season. I accept that some change may be needed - but not this! I do hope, if this format is adopted, that a new name is found for the competition because it would NOT be the Davis Cup as anyone has ever known it. It seems the tier below World Group would retain the existing system of playing weekend home or away venues. Sadly, that may be the more attractive grouping from the fans point of view but how long before that would be "new and improved" as well?
I'm horrified. I think those who baulked at the idea of reducing the tournament to 2 days and 3 set matches would now snatch the ITF's hand off if that were the alternative.
We have to be realistic, the game has become a lot more physical in recent times, the schedule for players who can't opt out of anything is rammed. What more do we want of them? I think the reduced format would have been much better and probably encouraged the top players to think again.
Now we've lost the tennis league as it were - well of teams anyway. Now it's just going to be an individual sport and nothing else if you don't get fan groups from the participating countries in sufficient numbers.
RIP DC.
lovetennis
03-03-2018, 19:37
I'm horrified. I think those who baulked at the idea of reducing the tournament to 2 days and 3 set matches would now snatch the ITF's hand off if that were the alternative.
RIP DC.
Aha maybe it's all a plot to make us grateful for a 2 day, best of 3 sets DC ;) On a more serious note it seems to be more about the money. The ITF statement made quite a lot of noise about the significant investment from Pique
Well you couldn't make it up could you?
Lynne and I regularly visit Nandos before we play Poker of a weekend.
And this Saturday night was no different, apart from one thing.
Lynne always has Ceaser salad and guess what it said on the menu?
That's right NEW AND IMPROVED.........:laugh:
Laugh? Laugh? I nearly got me fags out.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/43409616
ATP planning to launch World Team Cup in January 2020, hopefully this will ruin the proposed Davis cup reforms
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/43409616
ATP planning to launch World Team Cup in January 2020, hopefully this will ruin the proposed Davis cup reforms
Here is Jamie's take on it
Murray says he is sympathetic to the ITF's plans for the reform of the Davis Cup, but indicates that players would prefer the World Team Cup to be an ATP event.
"It's in January, so it makes sense for all the players to be playing that tournament in the lead-up to the Australian Open. There will obviously be ATP points available as well, and potentially more money on the table for the players," he says.
............
"I understand why the ITF are trying to to do something - they've kind of been forced into it," Murray continued.
"The players have been asking for a format change for a long time.
"I've had amazing experiences playing in the Davis Cup, but ultimately I'm aware that the competition is kind of dying in that they don't have guaranteed top-player participation.
"This is obviously their way of trying to get top participation back but is that going to work at the end of November, beginning of December?
"I'm not so sure, really. I don't see how the real top guys are going to commit to doing that in what already is a really long season."
Interesting. Looks like holding the new DC event in Asia is not so popular with the ATP who tried to make a deal with Kosmos first. Maybe the new ITF proposals will be unpopular too.
There has been frustration among some of the players at their association's inability to strike a deal with Kosmos, as the group had approached the ATP before the ITF.
It is understood discussions hit a roadblock over Kosmos' desire to stage the event in Asia - Singapore and Japan are most frequently mentioned - in late November and early December. The group is backed by Hiroshi Mikitani, the chairman and chief executive of Rakuten, an ecommerce company based in Tokyo.
Here is Andy's take on it
It's Jamie's take on it, isn't it?
It's Jamie's take on it, isn't it?
oops
At the end of this article -> LTA are seeking more info on the DC reforms
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/dan-evans-set-for-uk-wild-cards-when-drug-ban-ends-d233tgqz3
Meanwhile, the LTA has made it clear to the International Tennis Federation (ITF) that more details on the Davis Cup revamp are required as it considers whether to support the radical proposal. The ITF requires a two-thirds majority of approval from nations at its AGM in August for the Davis Cup to transform into a one-week event. The support of the LTA is crucial because it holds about 12 votes, as a grand-slam host, in the electoral college-style system.
Daily Mail article on LTA position
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/tennis/article-5506761/Dan-Evans-support-LTA-returns-drug-ban.html
A different dilemma to be grappled with at Roehampton is how to vote on this summer's proposal to reduce the Davis Cup to a one-week competition, as floated by the International Tennis Federation.
Under the ITF ballot system the UK has considerable heft as it is the host nation of a Grand Slam, with the maximum number of votes granted to one country.
President Martin Corrie must be in favour of condensing the 118 year-old competition because he is part of the ITF Board that unanimously supports the idea.
However, Corrie has voluntarily stood down from his duties while an independent investigation takes place into how an assault allegation from 14 years ago was handled by the county committee of Hertfordshire tennis, on which he sat at the time.
Further complicating the issue is that the ATP Tour appears to have renewed interest in setting up a rival one-week 'World Cup of Tennis' to that of the ITF, proposed in conjunction with a company headed by Barcelona footballer Gerard Pique.
Olly Scadgell, the LTA Director of Major Events and Competitions, said it was still unsure which way they would lean in this latest mess created by the sport's alphabet soup of conflicting governing bodies.
Several prominent European tennis associations have already said they will vote against the ITF proposal, and many British Davis Cup fans wish their own governing body would do the same.
'We are missing some information that I think all nations require before saying which way they're going to go,' said Scadgell. '
'There are a number of questions that are still unanswered: where's it going to be staged is one. We can all hypothesise where that might be in the world but they haven't said that yet.
'We obviously need to canvas the views of a number of key stakeholders who are relevant for this decision, including the players. I know that Leon (Smith) has already started a dialogue with our players on what the ITF have put forward.'
We are missing some information that I think all nations require before saying which way they're going to go,' said Scadgell. '
Yeah mainly the view of the fans. and the countries not in a position to host the week long event as they are in the northern hemisphere.
One of my fondest tennis memories was walking around Ghent in the cold with all the lights on.
Also the best Fish meal we ever had at George's 11 on the Sunday evening, the fact we won might have helped.;):GBflag:
Gerard Pique doesn't have enough money to buy just those 2 memories let alone all the others, and that's just Lynne and I.
Nope if the draw is the money, then some things are worth more.
And anyway as I've said before they are just siphoning money away from the host countries into one, making it easier for them to take it.
It's underhanded daylight ROBBERY.
And you can print that where you like.
I don't know why they call it the Davis Cup as it clearly isn't the DC, it can hardly be to save the cost of a new trophy when there is so much money floating around. and 'so much money' is the root of a problem located by Jon Wertheim(?), posted by Roast Lamb(?) - ticket sales are irrelevant. which means fans are irrelevant. and after players have sold out to the mighty dollar they may find they don't like playing in empty stadia while their fans watch online, generating more cash for the sponsors.
@ Harriet - that’s how I feel. If this is truly what they want then retire Dwight Davis’s trophy to the Wimbledon museum. The competition they are proposing is no more Davis Cup than the new Challenger Tournament will be.
I think as we buy the the tickets, we should also get a say in what should happen. I would say no to the new format and stick two fingers up at them.
Surely, surely, surely they have to take the fans' views into consideration. No matter how much money is involved - if they don't put bums on seats it isn't a competition.
JAMES4578
16-03-2018, 20:38
Best we can hope for is that all the LTA and all the voting member associations (some having more weight of course) take account of fans' opinions, however at the end of the day it may not be the overriding factor. At least simple majority insufficient though. Won't affect me as much though as even if current system maintained, unlikely to be going to that many DC ties now. Nonetheless firmly support the battle against the changes for those who continue to be fanatical supporters, anyway wouldn't be same experience for armchair viewers either.
lovetennis
16-03-2018, 20:59
If the Grand Slam nations have more voting power, I am hoping we are in with a chance that the proposal won't make it through. The French and Aussies don't seem too fond of the proposal, let's hope their representation on the ITF reflects this. I can imagine the US supporting it - not for any solid reason, I just feel they might go with it. The Brit vote may be crucial
If the Grand Slam nations have more voting power, I am hoping we are in with a chance that the proposal won't make it through. The French and Aussies don't seem too fond of the proposal, let's hope their representation on the ITF reflects this. I can imagine the US supporting it - not for any solid reason, I just feel they might go with it. The Brit vote may be crucial
I can imagine the US supporting it - not for any solid reason, I just feel they might go with it. The Brit vote may be crucial
The US has the least by proportion to loose, owing to the countries size.
This is where proportionate representation becomes blurred.
$1 million in the USA means less than $1 million in France, Belgium, or even here.
Oz may even go for it if they changed the venue.
The power of money eh?
I hate being cynical but there it is.
But being closed mouthed and tight lipped never got the babe a bonnet!
So let's keep shouting.... The quiet storm.
I don't know why they call it the Davis Cup as it clearly isn't the DC, it can hardly be to save the cost of a new trophy when there is so much money floating around. and 'so much money' is the root of a problem located by Jon Wertheim(?), posted by Roast Lamb(?) - ticket sales are irrelevant. which means fans are irrelevant. and after players have sold out to the mighty dollar they may find they don't like playing in empty stadia while their fans watch online, generating more cash for the sponsors.
@ Harriet - that’s how I feel. If this is truly what they want then retire Dwight Davis’s trophy to the Wimbledon museum. The competition they are proposing is no more Davis Cup than the new Challenger Tournament will be.
Exactly! How dare they call it Davis Cup?! It just saddens me that so many of the players seem in favour of the proposed changes. I know something has to be done to get the players to play consistently, but there HAS to be a better way. I would prefer it every 2nd year or even less if it had to be to what is being proposed.
Maybe all the British fan groups need to discuss and put out some kinds of statement to the LTA as loyal supporters for many years to show how much we all care about this?? And is other nations did the same to their governing bodies, especially the GS nations, all the better.
ITF and ATP detail World Cup plans — but can they both survive?
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/sport/itf-and-atp-detail-world-cup-plans-but-can-they-both-survive-g7jqzzs5q
November 24, 2019: the champions of the first edition of the International Tennis Federation’s (ITF) revamped one-week Davis Cup World Cup of Tennis Finals competition in Singapore are crowned.
December 30, 2019: the Association of Tennis Professionals’ (ATP) new World Team Cup gets under way in Australia.
It appears that “World Cups” in tennis are like London buses. You wait ages for one and two come along at once.
As The Slice revealed two weeks ago, the ATP’s plans for its own team competition were far from dead in the water despite some people understandably thinking otherwise after the ITF’s sudden announcement of plans for the biggest transformation in the 118-year history of the Davis Cup. The statement last week of Chris Kermode, the executive chairman and president of the ATP, was not a declaration of war as such, but it was certainly a significant statement of intent.
“The Davis Cup has over a hundred years of history and the ITF are clearly looking to evolve the competition in an attempt to maximise its potential,” said Kermode. “The results of those efforts remain to be seen. Our focus remains on bringing the ATP World Team Cup back into the calendar, an exciting project which we’ve been working on for over 18 months now, with the last few details still to be finalised.”
And so now we have the ludicrous prospect of two World Cups taking place within a few weeks of each other. Tennis politics often baffles, but this really would take the biscuit.
You will not be surprised to hear that it has been a hot topic of discussion among tennis insiders in Miami this week. Can two team competitions — especially ones that are so close to each other in the calendar — really survive? The consensus is no.
In these early days of this latest power struggle, the ATP has the upper hand. Kermode would not have put out such a bullish statement had he not been confident. He is being strongly encouraged by the player council to make sure it is up and running in time for the start of the 2020 season.
The ATP’s World Team Cup looks the more attractive prospect for the players. The 24-team event, offering significant prize money and ranking points, will be held over ten days across four cities in Australia. The pool phase will most likely be held in Perth, Brisbane and Adelaide, before the final stages take place in Sydney. It offers suitable preparation for players before the first grand slam of the year in Melbourne.
Already it has effectively secured the commitment of Andy Murray, who signed a deal with Tennis Australia last year to start his season down under in 2018, 2019 and 2020. The statement was carefully worded so not to mention specifically which tournament he would play in 2020 as discussions on the World Team Cup were still being held behind the scenes at that point.
One hurdle for the ATP is dealing with the displeasure of the Qatar Open at being cast aside for this. There will likely be compensation of some form, with the tournament in Doha potentially being moved to another week in the calendar. The events in Pune and Auckland could still retain their existing January slots to host players not involved in the World Team Cup.
The ITF — and in particular its president, David Haggerty — was happy to receive the backing of Rafael Nadal and Novak Djokovic for its radical Davis Cup proposal, which was specifically designed to encourage the top players to participate, but will they actually commit to an event in Asia that would start immediately after the ATP Finals in London?
And there are growing doubts over whether this will even receive the two-thirds majority of approval it requires at the ITF’s AGM in Florida in August. Tennis Australia, with the maximum number of votes as a grand slam nation in the electoral college-style system, are certainties to vote against it — Lleyton Hewitt, the Australia captain who is currently in Miami, is furious with the ITF — and the Lawn Tennis Association (LTA) was not overly enthusiastic when asked about it recently.
Many people wonder why the ATP and the ITF cannot sit in a room together and, for the good of the sport, come up with a solution that involves one World Cup.
Kermode and Haggerty did, in fact, hold a cordial meeting in Indian Wells recently to discuss their respective plans, but world peace is more likely to come before any collaborative team event. There can only be one winner.
lovetennis
07-04-2018, 09:02
Lleyton Hewitt's ire has not dimmed since Miami. Here's what he tweeted yesterday https://twitter.com/lleytonhewitt/status/982207577625735169
lovetennis
07-04-2018, 18:34
Pouille also throws in his two penn'orth https://twitter.com/la_pouille/status/982641821288460288
Looking at the photos & videos on social media this weekend, how can the ITF kill off this amazing competition? Oh yeah, that's right .....money
lovetennis
08-04-2018, 15:11
Amelie Mauresmo hates the proposed changes too https://twitter.com/AmeMauresmo/status/982996661797642240
Just gonna throw this out there for what it's worth....
Could the AMFF become the home of/place to go Re, Davis cup?
1 As much as we all love him Andy has only a short career and I'm sure he wouldn't mind us evolving. After all DC is a big part of our lives Murrays or not.
2 There's a large amount of work/discussion to be done regarding the changes/killing of the DC. #death by money
If there was ever a time it was needed it's now surely?
3 I know Andy has voiced his agreement in principle but I'm sure when push comes to shove he'll see it's not a good move for the fans! Or individual towns/countries.
So if we made the forum more DC focused (If that's at all possible) it could become the main stay of fan focused Tennis.
Or should we just leave it to We are tennis or some other site?
I may be way off here but I did bring it up to some in Spain and it was better received than I thought it would be.
:cauldron:
angiebabez
08-04-2018, 16:33
Just gonna throw this out there for what it's worth....
Could the AMFF become the home of/place to go Re, Davis cup?
1 As much as we all love him Andy has only a short career and I'm sure he wouldn't mind us evolving. After all DC is a big part of our lives Murrays or not.
2 There's a large amount of work/discussion to be done regarding the changes/killing of the DC. #death by money
If there was ever a time it was needed it's now surely?
3 I know Andy has voiced his agreement in principle but I'm sure when push comes to shove he'll see it's not a good move for the fans! Or individual towns/countries.
So if we made the forum more DC focused (If that's at all possible) it could become the main stay of fan focused Tennis.
Or should we just leave it to We are tennis or some other site?
I may be way off here but I did bring it up to some in Spain and it was better received than I thought it would be.
:cauldron:
If your talking ONLY after Andy retires then yes it could work...that's IF there is a Davis Cup left by then!!
If your talking ONLY after Andy retires then yes it could work...that's IF there is a Davis Cup left by then!!
Erm that was kinda my whole point?
IF we leave it until Andy retires it might be to late to save DC as we know it?
I don't know but if we put our feelings as fans altogether we may stand a better chance of being heard?
AMFF the place to discuss DC and fan based tennis forum?
AMFF the place to discuss DC and fan based tennis forum?
I don't see why not. We could still discuss all things Andy.
Even after Andy retires we'll all still want to meet up and support GB at Davis Cup, won't we!
JAMES4578
08-04-2018, 18:31
Whilst Andy playing I think the main focus should still be on his career, at this point remains to be seen how big a part Davis Cup will play in that and the tour takes up far more of the year than DC weeks. That being said many are great fans of the competition regardless and follow other countries too, it is the also the event where many have met up and so interest in discussing matters at various times(particularly with proposed changes but will be hopefully be settled one way or another soon). Of course whilst Andy brought us all here many of us are also fans of other players and there's always room for discussing various tennis subjects on this forum.
angiebabez
08-04-2018, 20:46
Erm that was kinda my whole point?
IF we leave it until Andy retires it might be to late to save DC as we know it?
I don't know but if we put our feelings as fans altogether we may stand a better chance of being heard?
AMFF the place to discuss DC and fan based tennis forum?
Wasn't sure that you were making it clear that you meant after Andy retires...or go more DC focused now with all the proposed changes!! There is different threads for Davis Cup so for now whilst Andy is still active I would say that's all we need.
angiebabez
08-04-2018, 20:57
Also there's already LOTS of us making noise on Twitter 're the changes in Davis Cup...No disrespect to this forum but anyone important is much more likely to hear our voices on there where we can tag players/those involved etc.
Agree and then point them to here?
With maybe a petition to sign for all real tennis fans.
Also there are a lot of people who don't use those sites.
I don't do Twitter and I would be happy to sign a petition telling them not to change the Davis Cup format.
angiebabez
09-04-2018, 08:09
I don't do Twitter and I would be happy to sign a petition telling them not to change the Davis Cup format.
There has already been a petition that started on Twitter posted on here! You don't have to DO Twitter to sign it. Was put on here few weeks ago
Hmmm ... this forum was the original official forum attached to Andy’s website and personally I wouldn’t want to see it change from it’s Andy focus while he’s still playing. Yes many of us are DC fans and it’s at ties that we have predominantly met each other ... but as Angie says, there is lots of DC protesting activity on twitter involving the players, journalists and those in authority. Not gonna get that on here. I agree it’s important for all British fans to have one voice, but also for DC fans worldwide to be heard ... and I’m not sure having that here is the answer.
Obviously, lets hope it doesn't happen but Madrid could be host city for the rubbishy "Davis Cup"
http://www.marca.com/en/more-sports/2018/04/27/5ae36fa7ca4741764e8b4568.html
The future of the Davis Cup will be decided next August in Orlando and Madrid could play host to Gerard Pique's plans for tennis' major tournament.
Since last Sunday, the Spanish defender has been talking with several players in the Barcelona Open.
He had also previously gone to Valencia for the Davis Cup quarter-final against Germany, where he had his first meeting with the executives of the Spanish Tennis Federation (RFET).
At the meeting, the parties held discussions and Pique promised to show the numbers he had put on the table to convince the International Tennis Federation to change the format of the tournament.
According to MARCA, this conference took place on Friday in Barcelona, in the middle of the quarter-final matches of the Barcelona Open.
The idea is that while the Masters takes place in London, the new Davis Cup will be held in Europe to facilitate the presence of the best players.
Two cities are on the table to host the finals: Madrid and Paris, and the capital of Spain is the first on the list.
Indian Wells was the first venue for the new tournament; however, after working in the shadow of Pique's group, many of the federations reluctant to the project are beginning to support him.
themass15
30-04-2018, 10:03
Destination could be worse but of course it means likely to be on clay
Destination could be worse but of course it means likely to be on clay
I think we should boycott the new format if it happens
I think we should boycott the new format if it happens
It won't be Davis Cup to me anyway :crying: .... hoping with all my being that it won't happen
lovetennis
30-04-2018, 16:35
Pique is really piqu'ing me off. What does he know about tennis anyway? He is only interested in the money. I get that international sport is business to a certain extent bur this is like getting Fed to organise the World Cup
Pique is really piqu'ing me off. What does he know about tennis anyway? He is only interested in the money. I get that international sport is business to a certain extent bur this is like getting Fed to organise the World Cup
Wonder who's gonna be Sepp Blatter?
:whistle:
lovetennis
30-04-2018, 20:32
Wonder who's gonna be Sepp Blatter?
:whistle:
I could think of a few suggestions, but best keep them to myself :laugh:
I could think of a few suggestions, but best keep them to myself :laugh:
:rolling:
Eh em careful cos that's how rumors start.
Or is it in the words in the House of commons:
I refer my friend to the answer given earlier?
:whistle::getcoat:
Davis Cup to limit changes in order to placate critics
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/tennis/2018/05/15/davis-cup-limit-changesin-order-placate-critics/
As this column reported last month, the most divisive issue in the world’s boardrooms and locker-rooms this season is the International Tennis Federation’s proposal to radically revamp the 118-year-old Davis Cup.
But with three months to go before the new concept is put to a vote, work is afoot to tone down the most controversial element of the scheme.
Fans across the world have been outraged by the proposed abolition of home-and-away ties – the competition’s lifeblood for much of its history. So in order to placate the critics, the Telegraph understands that one initial eliminator round is likely to be retained in the first week of February, immediately after the Australian Open.
This will mean that most nations play a home Davis Cup tie every two years. And the top-tier teams who survive the February showdown will then continue on to the World Cup of Tennis concept: a week-long team tournament in November, which is still intended to involve 18 countries.
This amendment should improve the International Tennis Federation’s chances of earning a two-thirds majority from its members when the new Davis Cup model is put to a vote at August’s Annual General Meeting.
The tennis federations of several leading nations, notably Australia and France, have come under heavy pressure from players who relish the unique atmosphere of Davis Cup crowds. This has been particularly awkward for Bernard Giudicelli, who is both president of the FFT and chairman of the ITF’s Davis Cup committee, which supported the tournament’s revamp in the first place.
But with this element of continuity between the old model and the new, Giudicelli may be able to square the circle and place France’s 12 votes (the AGM operates an electoral college system) behind the proposals.
Another stumbling block could disappear if tennis bodies manage to convince the investors behind the new model – a company named Kosmos, which is fronted by Barcelona footballer Gerard Pique – that the November finals should be held in Europe rather than a far-flung Asian venue such as Singapore or Beijing.
Part of the original thinking was that Kosmos wanted to gather a staging fee of perhaps £20m from an Asian or middle-eastern city. This was why Pique always insisted that the event should be held outside the regular tennis season, because it was the only way that he would be able to play one bidder off against another.
Within the season, the logic of the various staging posts – Australia in January, Europe in the spring, UK in high summer, the United States and then Asia in autumn – dictates where the players will be in any given week. This is disadvantageous for anyone who, like Pique, wants to create an open market and then benefit from it.
But as the head of the Spanish Tennis Federation, Miguel Diaz, said last week, “We are looking at a formula whereby the quarter-finals, semi-finals and final will be held in Madrid or in France so it doesn’t have to go to Asia. We’ve had a couple of meetings with Gerard Pique and we will have one more but we still need data.”
It is now just over a year since Pique surfaced as a possible figurehead for a new team competition, pressing the flesh in the player lounge at the 2017 Madrid Masters.
But as the Lawn Tennis Association’s new chief executive Scott Lloyd put it last month, “There are still a lot of moving parts” in the whole negotiation. With luck, there may even be a neat solution out there that unifies, rather than divides, the sport’s many warring factions.
suttontennis
15-05-2018, 12:19
Davis Cup to limit changes in order to placate critics
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/tennis/2018/05/15/davis-cup-limit-changesin-order-placate-critics/
As this column reported last month, the most divisive issue in the world’s boardrooms and locker-rooms this season is the International Tennis Federation’s proposal to radically revamp the 118-year-old Davis Cup.
But with three months to go before the new concept is put to a vote, work is afoot to tone down the most controversial element of the scheme.
Fans across the world have been outraged by the proposed abolition of home-and-away ties – the competition’s lifeblood for much of its history. So in order to placate the critics, the Telegraph understands that one initial eliminator round is likely to be retained in the first week of February, immediately after the Australian Open.
This will mean that most nations play a home Davis Cup tie every two years. And the top-tier teams who survive the February showdown will then continue on to the World Cup of Tennis concept: a week-long team tournament in November, which is still intended to involve 18 countries.
This amendment should improve the International Tennis Federation’s chances of earning a two-thirds majority from its members when the new Davis Cup model is put to a vote at August’s Annual General Meeting.
The tennis federations of several leading nations, notably Australia and France, have come under heavy pressure from players who relish the unique atmosphere of Davis Cup crowds. This has been particularly awkward for Bernard Giudicelli, who is both president of the FFT and chairman of the ITF’s Davis Cup committee, which supported the tournament’s revamp in the first place.
But with this element of continuity between the old model and the new, Giudicelli may be able to square the circle and place France’s 12 votes (the AGM operates an electoral college system) behind the proposals.
Another stumbling block could disappear if tennis bodies manage to convince the investors behind the new model – a company named Kosmos, which is fronted by Barcelona footballer Gerard Pique – that the November finals should be held in Europe rather than a far-flung Asian venue such as Singapore or Beijing.
Part of the original thinking was that Kosmos wanted to gather a staging fee of perhaps £20m from an Asian or middle-eastern city. This was why Pique always insisted that the event should be held outside the regular tennis season, because it was the only way that he would be able to play one bidder off against another.
Within the season, the logic of the various staging posts – Australia in January, Europe in the spring, UK in high summer, the United States and then Asia in autumn – dictates where the players will be in any given week. This is disadvantageous for anyone who, like Pique, wants to create an open market and then benefit from it.
But as the head of the Spanish Tennis Federation, Miguel Diaz, said last week, “We are looking at a formula whereby the quarter-finals, semi-finals and final will be held in Madrid or in France so it doesn’t have to go to Asia. We’ve had a couple of meetings with Gerard Pique and we will have one more but we still need data.”
It is now just over a year since Pique surfaced as a possible figurehead for a new team competition, pressing the flesh in the player lounge at the 2017 Madrid Masters.
But as the Lawn Tennis Association’s new chief executive Scott Lloyd put it last month, “There are still a lot of moving parts” in the whole negotiation. With luck, there may even be a neat solution out there that unifies, rather than divides, the sport’s many warring factions.
Still a lot of work to do. One home tie every two years won't generate much SUSTAINED interest in watching Davis Cup, just imagine if England football team only played at home every two years ? However, some countries don't show the same level of commitment and have the same interest in DC as GB and it's fans, and it may be that enough of those might prefer the new format, seeing as it would save them the hassle, and cost, of organising a DC home tie.
Davis Cup: Rival ITF and ATP events would be 'insane' - Chris Kermode
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/44131206
By Russell Fuller BBC tennis correspondent
Staging two competing World Cup events in the space of six weeks would be "insane", says ATP executive chairman Chris Kermode.
The International Tennis Federation has set out plans for an 18-team end-of-season event which will crown the Davis Cup champions from 2019.
The ATP's priority is to stage a revamped World Team Cup in Australia in the first week of January from 2020.
"Hopefully tennis works together and we come up with a solution," said Kermode.
Talks have already taken place between the ITF - the governing body of world tennis - and the Association of Tennis Professionals to try and find a compromise, he added.
Kermode, whose organisation runs the men's professional tour, says he is "confident" there will ultimately only be one World Cup, but cannot promise it will be a co-sanctioned event.
"It doesn't make any sense to have two team events. Personally I think that would be insane. Let's just hope that doesn't happen," Kermode told BBC Sport.
"We have had very, very good talks. What we are trying to do is understand that tennis is a multi-faceted business. Davis Cup is a sports entity that has been around for hundreds of years and we value it.
"Equally the World Team Cup was an event we had for 35 years. It's been off the shelf for a while, but could we bring that back?
"I think there's clearly a demand for a huge team event that anyone can buy into."
Britain's Jamie Murray, who is a member of the ATP player council, indicated in March that the players would prefer the World Team Cup to be run by the ATP. He cited the time of year and potentially greater financial rewards as advantages.
Kermode is very aware of the feelings of the players, and no doubt the frustration of some at the length of the process. It is two months now since we were told there were just a few last details to be finalised.
"It's been an incredibly convoluted and complex process," said Kermode. "There have been so many people involved in the sport who feel very passionate about this.
"It is down to the players - the players have got to support one or the other, and see where we'll go. So I think the next few months are going to be quite exciting."
lovetennis
15-05-2018, 20:56
Davis Cup to limit changes in order to placate critics
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/tennis/2018/05/15/davis-cup-limit-changesin-order-placate-critics/
As this column reported last month, the most divisive issue in the world’s boardrooms and locker-rooms this season is the International Tennis Federation’s proposal to radically revamp the 118-year-old Davis Cup.
But with three months to go before the new concept is put to a vote, work is afoot to tone down the most controversial element of the scheme.
Fans across the world have been outraged by the proposed abolition of home-and-away ties – the competition’s lifeblood for much of its history. So in order to placate the critics, the Telegraph understands that one initial eliminator round is likely to be retained in the first week of February, immediately after the Australian Open.
This will mean that most nations play a home Davis Cup tie every two years. And the top-tier teams who survive the February showdown will then continue on to the World Cup of Tennis concept: a week-long team tournament in November, which is still intended to involve 18 countries.
This amendment should improve the International Tennis Federation’s chances of earning a two-thirds majority from its members when the new Davis Cup model is put to a vote at August’s Annual General Meeting.
The tennis federations of several leading nations, notably Australia and France, have come under heavy pressure from players who relish the unique atmosphere of Davis Cup crowds. This has been particularly awkward for Bernard Giudicelli, who is both president of the FFT and chairman of the ITF’s Davis Cup committee, which supported the tournament’s revamp in the first place.
But with this element of continuity between the old model and the new, Giudicelli may be able to square the circle and place France’s 12 votes (the AGM operates an electoral college system) behind the proposals.
Another stumbling block could disappear if tennis bodies manage to convince the investors behind the new model – a company named Kosmos, which is fronted by Barcelona footballer Gerard Pique – that the November finals should be held in Europe rather than a far-flung Asian venue such as Singapore or Beijing.
Part of the original thinking was that Kosmos wanted to gather a staging fee of perhaps £20m from an Asian or middle-eastern city. This was why Pique always insisted that the event should be held outside the regular tennis season, because it was the only way that he would be able to play one bidder off against another.
Within the season, the logic of the various staging posts – Australia in January, Europe in the spring, UK in high summer, the United States and then Asia in autumn – dictates where the players will be in any given week. This is disadvantageous for anyone who, like Pique, wants to create an open market and then benefit from it.
But as the head of the Spanish Tennis Federation, Miguel Diaz, said last week, “We are looking at a formula whereby the quarter-finals, semi-finals and final will be held in Madrid or in France so it doesn’t have to go to Asia. We’ve had a couple of meetings with Gerard Pique and we will have one more but we still need data.”
It is now just over a year since Pique surfaced as a possible figurehead for a new team competition, pressing the flesh in the player lounge at the 2017 Madrid Masters.
But as the Lawn Tennis Association’s new chief executive Scott Lloyd put it last month, “There are still a lot of moving parts” in the whole negotiation. With luck, there may even be a neat solution out there that unifies, rather than divides, the sport’s many warring factions.
Still don't like it, even with the toned down changes. The Finals would still be played in a neutral atmosphere - so still just another tournament, not DC.
lovetennis
15-05-2018, 20:59
Bouncy talking some sense for once :laugh: https://twitter.com/AndrewCastle63/status/996472726360592386
Bouncy talking some sense for once :laugh:
Although he’s conveniently forgotten how he said on tv 5 days before the final that there was no way it could go ahead.
lovetennis
16-05-2018, 06:02
Although he’s conveniently forgotten how he said on tv 5 days before the final that there was no way it could go ahead.
Yes he did say that didn't he. Obviously he had underestimated the determination of GB fans to be there
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/tennis/2018/05/16/president-itf-confirms-new-davis-cup-model-will-retain-home/
Confirmed home away for the Feb ties
Confirmed home away for the Feb ties
Apart from the semi-finalists from the previous year
"Two invited teams" sounds a bit cloak and dagger...
"Two invited teams" sounds a bit cloak and dagger...
Suspect the criteria would be mix of:-
Team with big name player(s)
Team whose fans spend the most money
We should be favourites for the 2nd one (if required)
I wonder if the Feb ties would in effect be relegation play-offs, the 12 winners advance to the finals, the 12 losers go into Group I for the rest of the year.
I wonder if the Feb ties would in effect be relegation play-offs, the 12 winners advance to the finals, the 12 losers go into Group I for the rest of the year.
That sounds about right to me. Would make sense anyway .... not that any of it makes sense though. Still hate it!
Sallydaisy
01-07-2018, 18:52
News of the World Team Cup ... and impact it might have on plans for the 'revised' DC Final etc.
@DavidLawTennis (https://twitter.com/DavidLawTennis) 19 m (https://twitter.com/DavidLawTennis/status/1013490702863478785)
Tennis Australia has announced the World Team Cup is happening.
Ominous for Davis Cup.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DhCka2zW0AAw12A.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DhCka2zW0AAw12A.jpg
BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/44676167) - ATP World Team Cup: New 24-team tournament to launch in 2020
Sallydaisy
01-07-2018, 21:36
Oh dear. The ITF response ...
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DhDNjoGX0AAJdCY.jpg
Thanks for posting SD
In reply to the last part of the last sentence:
Or not, hopefully!
Not long to wait until they announce what they're going to do.
Not long to wait until they announce what they're going to do.
Quaking in my boots at the possible outcome!!
Australians set to vote against.
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-tennis-men-davis-exclusive/exclusive-australia-among-several-federations-set-to-reject-davis-cup-revamp-idUKKBN1KO2PX
RosieBear
05-08-2018, 12:11
Brilliant. Sport is sacred to the Aussies, well done to them for calling out the proposals as nothing more than a corporate stitch up. Very disappointed with any federation and/or player that endorses the changes....
lovetennis
05-08-2018, 15:27
So pleased the Aussies have come out strongly to voice their disapproval of the proposals. The LTA don't appear to be anywhere near as transparent in how they might vote - but would they really want to cut off a nice big source of income from home ties? They promoted BTM on the back of Davis Cup support, so I'm hoping they will see sense and vote against the proposal
JAMES4578
05-08-2018, 15:59
According to updated article other three Grand slam Boards in favour of proposals , frustrating to say the least ITF response (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tennis-men-davis-itf/itf-confident-3-billion-davis-cup-revamp-will-secure-tennis-future-idUSKBN1KP0DU)
lovetennis
05-08-2018, 16:20
Very disappointing from Philip Brook of AELTC :sad:
RosieBear
05-08-2018, 16:27
Taken from the article that James kindly posted above:
"The International Tennis Federation has hit back at accusations that there has been a lack of transparency about the proposed revamp of the Davis Cup and is confident the new plans will deliver long-term benefits to players, nations and sponsors."
I am yet to see a single article or quote from a player that lists or explains the benefits to fans. Because there aren't any benefits for us, we'll just be bearing the brunt. I'm disappointed and irate in equal measure.
lovetennis
05-08-2018, 16:29
And for "long-term benefits" read SSSSSSSS
lovetennis
05-08-2018, 16:30
Did they ever even decide on a venue for this event? (I refuse to call it Davis Cup because it won't be)
RosieBear
05-08-2018, 16:34
Did they ever even decide on a venue for this event? (I refuse to call it Davis Cup because it won't be)
Last I heard, Madrid was the frontrunner (b/c of Picque) but Tokyo was also under consideration along with a couple of other cities that I can't recall. Just not interested tbh, I won;t be supporting it.
RosieBear
05-08-2018, 16:39
No specifics at all re fan benefits, this hazy nonsense is the best they can come with when it comes to the fans "[A]long with innovating and inspiring fans to engage with Davis Cup..." hmmm, well as far as I can see it's having the exact opposite effect on fans who have been innovated, inspired by and *attending* DC for decades. :furious:
lovetennis
05-08-2018, 16:44
Last I heard, Madrid was the frontrunner (b/c of Picque) but Tokyo was also under consideration along with a couple of other cities that I can't recall. Just not interested tbh, I won;t be supporting it.
Nor me. It will just be another tournament, with a largely neutral audience. All the things that make DC special thrown out the window
lovetennis
05-08-2018, 16:46
inspiring fans to engage with Davis Cup...
Whoever wrote that statement hasn't seen us lot in action at DC then :GBflag::jitterbug:
We must have all been feeling really uninspired when we organised ticket-buying groups to get Ghent tickets and defied a terrorist alert to go there :shrug:
RosieBear
05-08-2018, 16:49
Nor me. It will just be another tournament, with a largely neutral audience. All the things that make DC special thrown out the window
Yep, and we can make that a largely neutral *and elite* audience. My mum and aunty went to DC because they couldn't afford Wimbledon when they had young familes. DC tickets were a pittance in comparison, so much more accessible for many people which of course contributed to the special vibe. I'm beyond sad.:crying:
I would suggest the requirement for making any changes to DC would be for all discussions to be held at Sterling Uni or some other similar Fan based area.
No matter which country. But they know that's a no goer because we all know what this has been and still is all about.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Dare anyone of them to deny it's not about the money under oath with. a noose around their neck and Pierrepoint holding his lever at the time?
If the LTA don't see the light (which I'm sure they already have really) and jump the same way as OZ then shame on them.
The few taking the masses for a ride just to make shed loads of $ they don't need is coming to an end.
This imho is just another confirmation of George Orwells Animal Farm.
I'm not against anyone making money but covering up the cost with no care is coming to an end.
Plastic packaging anyone?
:getcoat:
lovetennis
06-08-2018, 20:01
More shenanigans. The owner of Indian Wells, Larry Ellison has published a statement giving the proposals his support. Why you may ask. Simples.....because Indian Wells is in the running to host said event. Sorry can't post the link to the statement on my phone
RosieBear
07-08-2018, 08:49
More shenanigans. The owner of Indian Wells, Larry Ellison has published a statement giving the proposals his support. Why you may ask. Simples.....because Indian Wells is in the running to host said event. Sorry can't post the link to the statement on my phone
I hope Ellison is successful: a disgusting sell out deserves a disgusting venue. His hideous, devoid-of-atmosphere dustbowl in Palm Springs fits the bill perfectly.
The fans are being treated like complete excrement. I am a bit of a fair weather supporter - mainly AM, (although I do hope to come to D.C. again), but those of you who have been stalwarts must/should be spitting blood.
WimbledonWestie
07-08-2018, 12:26
I am. Outrageous proposals. Even when I ( often) have to be an armchair fan, I still want to sense the home and away atmosphere from the tv and know that's what the teams are playing to. Pretty sure Dwight Davis wd not be impressed. Many smaller national associations will lose a lot of revenue and all countries lose the chance to promote the sport and their players . Definitely not in supporters interests. I c old go on and on. Good to see Mark Petchey speaking out against it.
RosieBear
07-08-2018, 14:50
I have always supported Andy as an individual player unconditionally - Andy does not owe anyone, anything just because they support him. Nothing will change that. But the Davis Cup is built on totally different team-fan dynamic and supporters are most definitely owed consideration. Even if the proposals are defeated, if the LTA, Leon, and British players come out in support of the changes then I'm done with Team GB and will just support individuals.
I have always supported Andy as an individual player unconditionally - Andy does not owe anyone, anything just because they support him. Nothing will change that. But the Davis Cup is built on totally different team-fan dynamic and supporters are most definitely owed consideration. Even if the proposals are defeated, if the LTA, Leon, and British players come out in support of the changes then I'm done with Team GB and will just support individuals.
+2
The fans are being treated like complete excrement. I am a bit of a fair weather supporter - mainly AM, (although I do hope to come to D.C. again), but those of you who have been stalwarts must/should be spitting blood.
Don't worry any real fan fair weather or not will be, surely?
Don't worry any real fan fair weather or not will be, surely?
True, I am annoyed about it, but don’t think I have the right to say as much as you folks. I remember after Ghent, someone saying something along the lines of it was so good of AM to spend all that time doing selfies and signing autographs after the win, and Judy responding with of course he should have done so, he would be nothing without the fans.
The D.C. bigwigs have forgotten that. It’s the fans that make D.C. so special. Worse they don’t seem care.
RosieBear
07-08-2018, 20:16
True, I am annoyed about it, but don’t think I have the right to say as much as you folks.
Of course you do, Teresa. You don't find it easy to travel but still came along when you could. Supporters are a broad church, some people worry about how they'll manage a tie financially, others how they'll manage physically, but what makes us all supporters is that we find a way because we care. You have just as much right to an opinion as anyone else.
Having something you love/cherish/care about ripped away from you without so much as a bye your leave.
Hurts to the very core. Believe me we all know. Heaven knows I do.
So send the emails cos they won't read this. Shout as loud as you can on Soc/Med. All Fans of DC how ever fair weather/Part time you feel.
As when it's gone, mourning the loss. We'll only sit there asking "Could we have done more to stop it?"
From stalwart to fair weather it's gonna hurt when it's gone. Immeasurably so. IMHO.
Don't get me started on the 'Kerching Cup'! (oops, too late ...)
I saw this kind of thing coming when they appointed an American to run the ITF but Haggerty has been even worse than I originally feared.
I don't have an issue with people trying to make money out of tennis, but this just seems to be greed for greed's sake - the longer-term effects be damned, not to mention the fans (they seem to consider 'fans' a four-letter word in more than just the literal sense) who make DC ties easily the best live experience in tennis.
I realise that all-in-one events are more convenient for the organisers, broadcasters and top players (not necessarily for those below the very top) but every other major event in tennis is like that, made for TV and remote from the fans. Can't they leave us with just one major event (ok, Fed Cup too would be nice!) that's more fan-friendly and really, really special?
I'm very annoyed with the AELTC too (though maybe I shouldn't be surprised - after all, the proposed new format matches their model pretty well - single venue, expensive tickets, no guarantee of which matches you'll see, limit the chances of big groups of fans getting in together, hence a dead atmosphere most of the time, etc) but I'm really, really shocked that the LTA haven't already decided to do the right thing by following Tennis Australia's lead, though again (given the FFT's stitch-up) perhaps I shouldn't really be surprised.
Talking of which, if their preferred venue in the US really is Indian Wells in the middle of the Californian desert, then they really are taking the p***, and putting it in Asia for the $$$s would be just as bad, when Europe has been the real cradle of DC fervour for years.
Thanks to the people from here who've already liked/RTd my tweet about it yesterday (https://twitter.com/GBtennis/status/1026810572149600257) - if the powers that be look at such things at all, the more engagement tweets like that get, the better. I can realistically claim I'm not arguing this for selfish reasons too, since from next year onwards, I'll probably only be able to make GB Davis Cup ties on the US east coast, so a week-long event in, say, DC or New York, might suit me fine. It's the rest of you and the kids who might get inspired by the atmosphere of a home DC tie (the noise, caring about the result of every single rubber - every live one, anyway - etc) I care about here.
Good to see some of you thinking of writing to the LTA about this too (it's quite possible that many of those who will be involved in the decision find social media a bit, er, new-fangled and don't use it) - if people do write to the LTA, I'd suggest listing all the benefits of the existing format as you see them, for fans and for getting kids interested (it's not as if there aren't plenty to list!) rather than threatening to boycott events, etc, but then, what do I know about how to convince them.
I admit I went to my 1st DC tie solely to see Andy but I was smitten by the whole patriotic, exciting experience. So glad I was able to be part of it (thanks to you wonderful people) for a time. Because I'm afraid next year, if the changes are agreed, it spells the death of the Davis Cup as we all know and love it. Feel so sad and angry about it. x
If you feel strongly about the proposed DC changes you could send them your views at info@lta.org.uk
I had this response recently from the LTA:-
"I have liaised with our Communications team who have confirmed that they are still in conversation regarding the proposals with the ITF and at the moment, no decision or action has been taken in relation to this.
Further information regarding the Davis Cup process will be announced in due course and will be communicated to all stakeholders accordingly.
In the meantime, if you have any other queries on this or anything else in relation to British Tennis, feel free to contact us in response to this email at info@lta.org.uk"
Is it likely that the LTA won't do what the AELTC tell them to do?
Ellison, who owns the Indian Wells Tennis Garden facility in the California desert as well as the Indian Wells Masters 1000 tournament, has invested in the proposed new event to be known as the World Cup of Tennis.
https://indianexpress.com/article/sports/tennis/larry-ellison-excited-for-indian-wells-to-host-revamped-davis-cup-5296292/
lovetennis
08-08-2018, 19:23
Here's an American DC fan's open letter to the ITF
http://www.tennispanorama.com/archives/63199
RosieBear
08-08-2018, 19:53
Here's an American DC fan's open letter to the ITF
http://www.tennispanorama.com/archives/63199
The sadness is felt by fans everywhere. My family and I met David F and the netheads when we all stayed at The Merchant Inn during the GB/US tie. Lovely people - we chatted over breakfast every morning. The friendly interactions between rival fans is one things I love most about DC - name another sporting event where fans from different countries mingle and joke together when so much is being played for. The fans are fundamental to what makes DC so special and it's heartbreaking that isn't genuinely recognised - if it was there is no way the changes would go ahead.
lovetennis
08-08-2018, 20:46
The sadness is felt by fans everywhere. My family and I met David F and the netheads when we all stayed at The Merchant Inn during the GB/US tie. Lovely people - we chatted over breakfast every morning. The friendly interactions between rival fans is one things I love most about DC - name another sporting event where fans from different countries mingle and joke together when so much is being played for. The fans are fundamental to what makes DC so special and it's heartbreaking that isn't genuinely recognised - if it was there is no way the changes would go ahead.
Couldn't agree more. At the DC Final in Ghent me & Steve were sat with the Belgians on the first day. They were absolutely charming and friendly as we each supported our teams. Sport should be about bringing people together and in its current format DC does that brilliantly
Here's an American DC fan's open letter to the ITF
http://www.tennispanorama.com/archives/63199
Great letter that. Surely there is someone out there with wider credibility and a bit of clout that could pen a letter on behalf of the fans and DC heritage.
Maybe citing this one as just one of the many personal letters and fans they would be ignoring.
With an opportunity for fans to sign/endorse similar to a petition.
Could even include links to the many other online petitions already out there and signed.
Just a thought??
As far as boycotting go's. I won't be boycotting I just wouldn't want to go.
It'd be like a party on the moon. No atmosphere. Relatively speaking.
I don't even know where to start ....
Those of you who know me know how passionate I am about DC, know how I have been a supporter for nearly 20 years (ironically 20 years next year when it could all be over :crying:). I have told many of you how I have attended every single home tie since 1999 and a good few away too. I feel very privileged to have been there through thick and thin .... I was there when we were fighting for survival in euro/africa group II at Eastbourne and beside my self with joy and emotion in Ghent. I cannot believe what they are doing to my beloved DC. I have met friends for life through this competition .... if they kill it I will be devastated and apoplectic with rage in equal measure!
I have tweeted the LTA but I think I will also send a longer email in which I can tell them everything that is good about DC and everything that is bad about the proposals. Let's not just moan folks, let's do everything we can to influence them ... please, please as many of you that care and can, tweet and email away. The more of us who show we care and show we disapprove, the more chance we have of someone talking some notice of the fans that make this competition so special.
lovetennis
10-08-2018, 16:44
This really does stink
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/tennis/2018/08/09/tennis-europes-vladimir-dmitriev-launches-attack-itf-president/
ITF are a disgrace. Also upsetting that if this report is correct the French federation supports the changes. I know I have seen tweets since the proposals were announced from people like Yannick Noah, Julien Benneteau and Amelie Mauresmo criticising the proposals. Disappointing if their federation is not listening to these people.
omg - I am so sorry for all you diehard Davis Cup fans. I have enjoyed following along with you and did join the LTA in hopes attending one some day.
How can all the sweeping under the carpet and bending of the rules be allowed? Money talks!! Hopefully it will all backfire on them.
This really does stink
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/tennis/2018/08/09/tennis-europes-vladimir-dmitriev-launches-attack-itf-president/
ITF are a disgrace. Also upsetting that if this report is correct the French federation supports the changes. I know I have seen tweets since the proposals were announced from people like Yannick Noah, Julien Benneteau and Amelie Mauresmo criticising the proposals. Disappointing if their federation is not listening to these people.
In another report Giudicelli was asked about the brown envelope poking out his back pocket.
He just shrugged his shoulders saying "What brown envelope" as he pushed it further down.;););):
Or could he be the trick in the tale??
:sofa:
lovetennis
11-08-2018, 08:52
The Aussies have got the right idea
https://www.tennis.com.au/news/2018/08/11/australian-tennis-legends-davis-cup-survival
The Aussies have got the right idea
https://www.tennis.com.au/news/2018/08/11/australian-tennis-legends-davis-cup-survival
Everyone send this link to the LTA with the question as to their stance?
lovetennis
11-08-2018, 11:51
I've sent my email to the LTA.
Picque is ramping up his campaign https://twitter.com/3gerardpique/status/1027991733328662528
Needless to say he's only interested in promoting the financial aspect (That's me BTW in the comments telling him is proposals are garbage :red devil:)
lovetennis
11-08-2018, 13:37
Amelie Mauresmo definitely in the "no" camp https://twitter.com/AmeMauresmo/status/1028255247041552384
Nice to see Matt Little liked this tweet
exislander
11-08-2018, 14:21
I too have sent an email to the LTA.
It is very rare for me to communicate a protest against or a support of anything. There have been only a handful of cases in my lifetime that I have felt so strongly about that I just had to say something and this is one of them.
I've sent my email to the LTA.
Picque is ramping up his campaign https://twitter.com/3gerardpique/status/1027991733328662528
Needless to say he's only interested in promoting the financial aspect (That's me BTW in the comments telling him is proposals are garbage :red devil:)
Well you see $11m a year from DC just ain't enough so the phone calls of doom were bound to happen.
I've sent my email but forgot to copy it first.
:doh:
Anyway me being green to all the detail of DC can I ask do the players get paid/prize money or is it just for your country like Olympics (with sponsors?)
lovetennis
11-08-2018, 17:20
DC can I ask do the players get paid/prize money or is it just for your country like Olympics (with sponsors?)
I'm not sure - it seems to be one of those things shrouded in mystery. I suspect they do get some renumeration but for the top players the winning of the competition probably trumps any money. Can't imagine they'll feel that under the new format
Why can't I see any tweets about this on the British Tennis twitter feed? Have I missed them or is it not the right place to protest. I don't use twitter really but seems that would be the best place to bombard. E-mails are ok but whose going to know how many they get?
WimbledonWestie
11-08-2018, 18:18
Well you see $11m a year from DC just ain't enough so the phone calls of doom were bound to happen.
I've sent my email but forgot to copy it first.
:doh:
Anyway me being green to all the detail of DC can I ask do the players get paid/prize money or is it just for your country like Olympics (with sponsors?)
I think payment for playing DC is entirely up to national associations
I've sent my email to the LTA.
Picque is ramping up his campaign https://twitter.com/3gerardpique/status/1027991733328662528
Needless to say he's only interested in promoting the financial aspect (That's me BTW in the comments telling him is proposals are garbage :red devil:)
I too have sent an email to the LTA.
It is very rare for me to communicate a protest against or a support of anything. There have been only a handful of cases in my lifetime that I have felt so strongly about that I just had to say something and this is one of them.
I have just sent my email too. As usual after I sent it, I thought of other things I could have said!
Loved your comments Kath! Well said.
Thanks for the replies to my question all.
I'm sure most of you know how my mind works by now........
Very questioning and I can't help asking myself why so many people who could sway this are so quiet?
Personally I have only come up with two answers:
1 They have an ace up their sleeve and are waiting until the most opportune moment to play it.
2. There's more than one brown envelope. (If there's one it stands to reason there'll be others)
3. Or they are frightened to jump either way because of recrimination later down the line from the cheque book holders.
(which counts the same as 2. in my book)
Anyone think of any other reasons?
It's a horrible thought I know but I'm now thinking we're looking at something similar to the corruption in the FA.
Along with other large organisations?
Not allowed to get political so I won't.
But if there's little to no monetary incentive for the players then this is abuse on a monster scale.
Filling brown envelopes wouldn't even scratch the surface.
No wonder Kosmos wants in. Seems they spotted a gap ie. Players not getting money and offering them it to get them on side.
What they forgetting is it's nice to see Andy and other top players playing for their country, (pay then big bucks and we won't know the real reason)
but some of the most memorable moments came from other lower ranked players. Cameron in Spain being just one of the most recent.
We lost that tie but it was none the less memorable.
Because although it's great to win, it's the taking part that's the most important especially for the fans.
I fear the powers that be feel we are no longer needed, TV right's rule the day.
Just can't see them making money like football does.
It's only a matter of time before it comes out that it didn't go to plan cos they ignored the fans, even if they win.
lovetennis
11-08-2018, 21:05
I think you're onto something with the TV rights Jagmad. ITF and Kosmos probably see this as the real money-spinner rather than bums on seats at the actual event. A week long event is an easier global sell to TV rather than several ties throughout the year where only two countries TV services will be interested in each individual tie, at least up until the final which probably attracts a more global TV audience.
The trouble is the new format as we all know will lack the atmosphere of the current format so it won't make particularly great TV anyway. It wouldn't surprise me if they use the Rent-a-Crowd approach. We've already seen this to some degree with We Are Tennis at recent DC ties, but in the new format they could do it on a grander scale to try and fake the current DC atmosphere for the sake of the TV pictures. We all know Rent-A-Crowd are nowhere near as good as us lot and the other genuine fan groups though don't we.
lovetennis
11-08-2018, 21:13
I have just sent my email too. As usual after I sent it, I thought of other things I could have said!
Loved your comments Kath! Well said.
Just thinking about the LTA employee who opens the inbox on Monday morning - TeamGB fans on a rant :GBflag::battle:
Just thinking about the LTA employee who opens the inbox on Monday morning - TeamGB fans on a rant :GBflag::battle:
Well if the number on my automated reply email from LTA means anything, they will have a busy Mon morning.....quote "your request (701234)...."!!! ;)
exislander
11-08-2018, 22:43
Well if the number on my automated reply email from LTA means anything, they will have a busy Mon morning.....quote "your request (701234)...."!!! ;)
My number from 24 hours ago was 700566! I hope that poor employee can forward emails up the hierarchy to those with some clout and who may take note.
I have a horrible feeling that the concept of the We Are Tennis lot was introduced to test the theory that "fan groups" COULD be manufactured and if successful then "real" fans would become superfluous. They could never create the electric atmosphere of the real thing surely?
lovetennis
12-08-2018, 09:08
I have a horrible feeling that the concept of the We Are Tennis lot was introduced to test the theory that "fan groups" COULD be manufactured and if successful then "real" fans would become superfluous. They could never create the electric atmosphere of the real thing surely?
Beginning to think that myself. It always was a strange concept - it's not like there was no fan support (quite the opposite) so I never understood why they introduced it.....until now.
I don't believe they could create as great an atmosphere but the ITF probably hope it will be good enough to look like it on TV
lovetennis
12-08-2018, 09:25
A long read but worth it
http://www.insidetennis.com/2018/03/save-the-davis-cup-soul-of-tennis/
WimbledonWestie
12-08-2018, 11:10
Excellent. Thanks for posting.
Yes, thanks - should be compulsory reading for anyone with clout or a vote.
Silverdee
12-08-2018, 12:27
Yes, let’s hope the LTA read it!
Well said, Mr Simons! :clap::clap::clap:
A great read. Some memorable lines in there. My fav is "There is no ecstasy in the game like a Davis Cup match point..." Thanks Kath.
lovetennis
12-08-2018, 13:52
Yes, let’s hope the LTA read it!
I tweeted it to them :thumbup:
WimbledonWestie
12-08-2018, 15:09
I tweeted it to them :thumbup:
So did I. In fact we should all bombard them with it,
I have a horrible feeling that the concept of the We Are Tennis lot was introduced to test the theory that "fan groups" COULD be manufactured and if successful then "real" fans would become superfluous. They could never create the electric atmosphere of the real thing surely?
:crying:
banskogirl
12-08-2018, 17:28
Me too!
Just sent them a long email (their response says it is request no. 702095).
lovetennis
12-08-2018, 18:59
Just sent them a long email (their response says it is request no. 702095).
That number is going up by a rate of knots :big grin:
I wonder how the LTA employee is getting on with the inbox this morning!
1390
lovetennis
13-08-2018, 12:23
Stu Fraser's article in today's Times doesn't inspire confidence in the LTA voting no. Pretty much decided I won't renew my membership with them if they vote in favour. I will take my chances in the public ballot for Wimby (always had more luck with that than the LTA one anyway) but I guess Philip Brooke's Wimbledon millions are worth more to them than individual membership fees :sad:
RosieBear
13-08-2018, 13:57
I don't believe for one second that the LTA are genuinely considering opposing the plans. If they were, what are they waiting for? If they truly wanted to make a principled stand they would have been hot on the Aussies' heels with their objections. I think the LTA know how upset the fans are and are just stalling for time. I can only see them opposing last minute if it looks like Picque doesn't have the numbers, but not out of principle.
I think these plans have been in the pipeline for a lot longer than we realise, and I believe there is something in the claims about the manufactured fan groups. I also think the LTA will be all for it because the change will help cover the fact that, despite their core brief, they haven't grown DC in the UK despite having a superstar player in Andy. For many current DC goers the event started with Andy and will end with Andy. Because of LTA failure, there would have been a massive drop off when he retires, but the changed format helps disguise that. I have been perplexed at some of the LTA's decisions in recent years regarding DC, but they make a lot more sense since the planned changes have come to light.
I too have contacted the LTA. To a certain extent I used the general approach of listing the great things about DC and the rubbish things about the proposed format, but I also asked them to answers some very specific questions to try and avoid them squirming off the hook with a load of vague bs. I set out the logistical (travel, acc, leave, ticketing, care) challenges and costs fans will face trying to attend a tournament of unknown duration (obviously based on the notion that fans want to stay only as long as their team is still in). If I get a reply, I will of course post it here.
Oh Anna. :crying: This is all so sad. I'm also :angry:
Your point about Andy is well made, and to a fair extent I am in that bracket, even though I have attended Andy-less ties. You only need to look at September's tie and the fact that it is nowhere near selling out to realise that.
RosieBear
13-08-2018, 14:30
Your point about Andy is well made, and to a fair extent I am in that bracket, even though I have attended Andy-less ties. You only need to look at September's tie and the fact that it is nowhere near selling out to realise that.
Happens everywhere. Look at the Belgrade tie when there was no Novak. It's a natural phenomenon and always going to happen, but the LTA should have been doing far more to mitigate the impact. Now I understand why they didn't appear too bothered.
I think RB has got it spot on. I think the whole thing has already been decided. My D.C. did begin with AM, and too an extent it will end with him, although as the up and coming players come through the ranks, that may change. I don’t particularly enjoy Kyle’s play, which makes me reluctant to spend what is a fair amount of money going.
The contempt that the LTA is demonstrating towards the fans doesn’t persuade me otherwise.
If they think D.C. has run it’s course, for whatever reason, then they should have the guts to say so, and retire Dwight Davis’s trophy to the Wimbledon Museum.
What they are proposing is not D.C.
Is there a template of what people are saying, and I will send something as well?
This has just come up on the Beeb website:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/45174860
lovetennis
13-08-2018, 19:21
So now they're trying to frighten ITF board members into voting for the proposals by saying the ITF will be bankrupt if it doesn't go through. If I was on the ITF Board I would want to see clear proof of that argument!
This has just come up on the Beeb website:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/45174860
"Privately the majority of players see and support the benefits this change will have." - either they're lying or the players don't care about the fans either and don't want us to know. There are too many top players who have been very silent and/or equivocal about this.
lovetennis
13-08-2018, 21:36
"Privately the majority of players see and support the benefits this change will have." - either they're lying or the players don't care about the fans either and don't want us to know. There are too many top players who have been very silent and/or equivocal about this.
Must admit I am disappointed that none of the GB players have given their views publicly - and it does allow the likes of Haggerty to claim they support it, whether they do or not.
What really perturbs me is that the Kosmos contract is for 25 years so if it doesn't work very well, the ITF are stuck with it. It'll serve them right if that happens
lovetennis
13-08-2018, 21:41
So now they're trying to frighten ITF board members into voting for the proposals by saying the ITF will be bankrupt if it doesn't go through. If I was on the ITF Board I would want to see clear proof of that argument!
Simon Briggs on Twitter answering my question about the finances https://twitter.com/simonrbriggs/status/1029113828842332160
reckons the ITF makes $29m per year from DC so not sure how that can mean they'll go down the pan if the proposals don't go through? Hmmm maybe it's the extra $12m per year that Kosmos is offering them that they've got their eye on :furious:
Sallydaisy
14-08-2018, 16:32
I don't know if this can be read easily as I'm not sure how to make it bigger.
For those on twitter go here: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dkjl2kiX4AALXGN.jpg
and/or here : @StirBarmyArmy
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dkjl2kiX4AALXGN.jpg
(https://twitter.com/StirBarmyArmy)
Sallydaisy
14-08-2018, 16:40
And comments on the above from Stu Fraser
A statement from the Stirling University Barmy Army, who have spent thousands of pounds supporting the British Davis Cup team around the world. A disgrace that both the ITF and the LTA have not made any effort to consult with fans...
and Steven
The lack of consultation would be consistent with the myth that there's such a huge legion of new fans this format will suddenly turn into DC fanatics that they don't need to bother about the existing fans
lovetennis
14-08-2018, 17:49
After seeing a report on the news this morning that half of the English Premier League football teams could survive purely on profits from TV rights (and no financial need for fans to actually attend the games) I m even more convinced that the Kosmos proposals are founded on selling TV coverage more than actual attendance. Who is behind Kosmos? A footballer
Of course they will still want people there just to make it look good on camera but I would expect to see a high proportion of corporate seating and a bigger contingent of the We Are Tennis gang there to fake some atmosphere.
What a soul-less concept
I read the BBC article, earlier, and I agree with Dirk Hordorff. How many players would want to play in the Davis Cup and how many fans would want to turn up in the November, knowing they (the players) won't have much time off and could the fans really afford to go to the ties and then go to the World Team Cup the following January.
lovetennis
14-08-2018, 20:56
Useful article about how the ITF voting works https://www.ubitennis.net/2018/08/ultimate-guide-davis-cup-d-day-voting-process/
Madrid tournament director and former Spanish great Manolo Santana is wary of changes being voted for Thursday by ITF members which would radically change the nature of the century-plus competition.
Really like this bit
•He says the Davis Cup has been with him for most of his life and understands that no many people ‘think like me.’
•He finishes his letter with, “After decades competing in this wonderful competition that I adore, I could not remain silent. The Davis Cup has been (and is!) Part of my life and it would break my heart if its essence is distorted. Long live the Davis Cup.”
https://www.ubitennis.net/2018/08/manolo-santana-writes-open-letter-opposing-davis-cup-reforms/
Stu Fraser has just tweeted that LTA will vote against the proposals tomorrow!
Full statement from the LTA:
https://www.lta.org.uk/about-us/tennis-news/news-and-opinion/general-news/2018/august/lawn-tennis-association-announcement-on-proposed-davis-cup-changes/
I can think of lots of other reasons too, but those are valid and diplomatic. The LTA voting "no" doesn't make sure the changes won't pass but it's got be a huge help.
As Simon Briggs says: "Impressive backbone showed by LTA's new chief exec Scott Lloyd as he stands up to Wimbledon and says no to the Kosmos reforms of Davis Cup. Statement just out. LTA's 12 votes will be against."
Let's just hope they don't actually want it to pass, already know it has enough votes (they are right next to the ITF offices after all) and now know they can safely avoid flak from the fans without stopping it going through. That's quite a conspiracy theory though, so hopefully it's completely wrong! :-)
Thanks to everyone who emailed the LTA or helped to make the case (and the weight of fan support for a 'no' vote) clear on social media. I doubt the battle for DC's survival is anywhere near over, even if "no" does win tomorrow, but it's a start and hopefully means we won't end up with an abomination like Piqué's idea.
exislander
15-08-2018, 19:08
I just had an email reply with a link to their website statement.
As I am sure everyone else has, I have just received an email from LTA thanking me for taking the time to highlight my views together with a link to the LTA statement.
By the time I had corrected my spelling mistakes, you got there before me Winnie!!
RosieBear
15-08-2018, 19:27
Ditto.
Pleasantly surprised about the LTA's stance, but not taking it at face value unless no vote tomorrow. I think there is an awful lot of manouvering going on behind the scenes, and the fans' feelings and best interest is at the heart of very little of it.
lovetennis
15-08-2018, 21:41
I got the reply from the LTA too. Tomorrow is going to be a long day. Orlando is 5 hours behind UK time so maybe we should expect a decision in the evening UK time?
I see Pouille has said he won't play for France if the proposal is approved. It seems like all French players are against it. P-H Mathieu has been tweeting his disgust today. Yet the French Federation are reportedly set to vote yes. They may not have a team to field if they get their wish
I got the email too. Good news that the LTA will vote against - I'm sure that all our emails must have helped. Just got to hope now that enough other countries vote against!
Sallydaisy
16-08-2018, 09:38
Useful article about how the ITF voting works https://www.ubitennis.net/2018/08/ultimate-guide-davis-cup-d-day-voting-process/
Ben Rothenberg has been keeping track .....
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DkrNP4xXcAA0h0w.jpg
Sallydaisy
16-08-2018, 09:40
And the voting register:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DkkyT9WX4AExChC.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DkkyT9XX4AA_C7w.jpg
lovetennis
16-08-2018, 12:31
Ben Rothenberg has been keeping track .....
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DkrNP4xXcAA0h0w.jpg
We will have to hope a lot of those 197 undeclared are going to vote no
Surely the 1 vote nations will vote for the money, real or imagined.
lovetennis
16-08-2018, 12:41
Surely the 1 vote nations will vote for the money, real or imagined.
That's what worries me too. They are never going to get to the one venue - one week finals so what do they care about that? Whereas dangling $$$$ in front of them will be an attractive proposition
lovetennis
16-08-2018, 12:46
Ben Rothenberg says vote result could come in as soon as 2 hours (and he tweeted that 40 minutes ago) so maybe due 3pm to 4pm UK time.
:sofa::sofa:
Sallydaisy
16-08-2018, 12:58
This one's gonna be close ... *
UPDATE: #DavisCupVote (https://twitter.com/hashtag/DavisCupVote?src=hash) forecast:
Yes (needs 66.7%) : (68.5)
No (needs 33.4%) : (31.5)
These swing countries will likely determine the outcome now:
https://abs.twimg.com/emoji/v2/72x72/1f1f8-1f1ea.pnghttps://abs.twimg.com/emoji/v2/72x72/1f1f7-1f1fa.pnghttps://abs.twimg.com/emoji/v2/72x72/1f1ee-1f1f9.pnghttps://abs.twimg.com/emoji/v2/72x72/1f1e8-1f1f3.pnghttps://abs.twimg.com/emoji/v2/72x72/1f1ef-1f1f5.png
Sweden, Russia, Italy, China, Japan = with 9 votes apiece
https://abs.twimg.com/emoji/v2/72x72/1f1f9-1f1ed.pnghttps://abs.twimg.com/emoji/v2/72x72/1f1f0-1f1f7.png
Thailand, South Korea = with 7 votes apiece
https://abs.twimg.com/emoji/v2/72x72/1f1e7-1f1ea.pnghttps://abs.twimg.com/emoji/v2/72x72/1f1e6-1f1f9.png
Belgium, Austria = with 5.
* Hunt for Red October ...
Worrying developments - Belgium are voting yes, when I'd have thought they'd be one of the least likely countries to do so. Their fans and players must be livid.
https://twitter.com/RamonPSV2001/status/1030073445789433856
Also, from Ben Rothenberg: "A defacto leader of the "No" bloc at #DavisCupVote is bemoaning the number of federations who want selfies with Pique. Possible his presence could actually swing some votes?"
Sallydaisy
16-08-2018, 14:03
ITF votes for change ............
:sad:
breaking: #daviscupvote (https://twitter.com/hashtag/daviscupvote?src=hash) *passes*, bringing complete overhaul to the 118-year-old competition
itf surpassed the needed two-thirds majority, getting 71% of the vote in orlando.
Big win for itf and president david haggerty.
Big loss for traditionalists, particularly australia.
@benrothenberg (https://twitter.com/benrothenberg) 1m (https://twitter.com/benrothenberg/status/1030092438281572352)
0 replies . 0 retweets 0 likes
JAMES4578
16-08-2018, 14:10
Bad news though despite LTA stance was not too confident, even if it was still touch and go in the end. Fans and some players not given a great deal of consideration but money talks. Whilst can see the case for some reform this will not be the Davis Cup that so many have loved.
This is a sad day. Much worse than when Andy loses a match.
:crying::crying::crying::crying::crying::crying::c rying:
RosieBear
16-08-2018, 14:27
I was prepared for this - when it's people v big money 99.9% of the time there is only one winner. Tbh, I don't read too much into the LTA's statement - it was released 11th hr when they would have had a very good idea of how the land lay. RIP Davis Cup, thanks for the memories but that's all that's left for me now :sad::sad::sad::sad::sad:
Time for a protest next month in Glasgow.
Perhaps, instead of our usual blue & UJ gear, we should all wear black & carry wreaths?
RosieBear
16-08-2018, 14:36
Perhaps, instead of our usual blue & UJ gear, we should all wear black & carry wreaths?
I'm not going :sad: Carry one for me? (I'll have to be involved, but not present ;))
Sallydaisy
16-08-2018, 14:47
Mahut not happy ...
@nmahut (https://twitter.com/nmahut)
Même Cincinnati pleure cette décision ridicule de @ITF_Tennis (https://twitter.com/ITF_Tennis) Les 12 voix de la FFT ont fait très mal.Décision très difficile * assumer en tant que français...La CD est morte et une partie de l’histoire de notre sport envolée pour une poignée de dollars. #decudenoselus (https://twitter.com/hashtag/decudenoselus?src=hash) #politique (https://twitter.com/hashtag/politique?src=hash)
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DkupdgaWwAMUvuh.jpg
The more I think about this and read comments on Twitter, the more this stinks. How can this possibly be called the Davis Cup anymore?
Mahut not happy ...
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DkupdgaWwAMUvuh.jpg
Mahut's views are the views of many on social media. Same theme occurs: death of DC , ridiculous, sad, and all for money.
edit: And due to the rain in Cinci, can't even watch tennis to take my mind off this disaster!
The more I think about this and read comments on Twitter, the more this stinks. How can this possibly be called the Davis Cup anymore?
Very sad day for tennis. :crying:
It is not the Davis Cup but another tennis event that takes no consideration of players and the fans but money money money
Pat is quite right - Who among the top players after a physically tiring year will wish to play in this new format of the Davis Cup?
Pat CashVerified account @TheRealPatCash · 10m10 minutes ago
Sad day for men’s tennis #ITF have voted for new format of #DavisCup (its no longer Davis Cup) Fooling themselves if they think top players will play a 18 team comp over 1 week at the end of the year???? ��
This question may come across as naïve. but if we win in Glasgow next month, will it count for anything? I understand that France, Spain, Croatia and USA (the last 4 of this year's cup) have all already secured their place in the final next year. Does that mean we have to qualify in February to progress to final? Apparently Lille or Madrid could be venue for final next year.
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.